Lawmakers Widen Schiavo Right-To-Die Fight

ejr · Post by **ejr** » March 31, 2005 4:32 pm

I think all parties acted inappropriately at many times, as this case went on. I wish Michael could have been more conciliatory to her parents, who, I agree, should have been allowed to be with her at the moment she died. But I have read enough about them, including some comments referred to in this week's Newsweek that I found horribly inappropriate. We also will never know what her relationship was with her parents at the time of the onset of the medical problems.

And yes, Sam, we would not do that with a dog or cat---if the dog or cat were in the same PVS that Terri was, we would quietly give them a shot and end it quickly. If you do not feel feeding tubes should be allowed to be pulled, fight to change the law, because that is the law in this country-I will fight to keep that law, but that is where energy should have been directed, not at trying to stop a husband who had the legal right to act on her behalf.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » March 31, 2005 4:38 pm

ejr wrote:I think all parties acted inappropriately at many times, as this case went on. I wish Michael could have been more conciliatory to her parents, who, I agree, should have been allowed to be with her at the moment she died. But I have read enough about them, including some comments referred to in this week's Newsweek that I found horribly inappropriate. We also will never know what her relationship was with her parents at the time of the onset of the medical problems.

And yes, Sam, we would not do that with a dog or cat---if the dog or cat were in the same PVS that Terri was, we would quietly give them a shot and end it quickly. If you do not feel feeding tubes should be allowed to be pulled, fight to change the law, because that is the law in this country-I will fight to keep that law, but that is where energy should have been directed, not at trying to stop a husband who had the legal right to act on her behalf.

Ellen,
We have our differences of opinion,and that is kewl. I am not denying that a person has a Right to choose...I am merely questiong his motivation and why he waited so long IF he is/was so sincerely concerened that her wishes being carried out.

I have been there when such decisions were made...more than once.
HUUUGGGZZZZ

Blonde Stranger · Post by **Blonde Stranger** » March 31, 2005 5:01 pm

But you aren't the judge, and you weren't there. How can you take anything as proof she didn't utter those words?

And did you ever consider that during that time he was taking her to different locations to get therapy? It's in the court records, and in the guardian ad litem's report, if you'd bother to read it.

Did you ever even consider that just maybe, he delayed as long as he possibly could, the conclusion that she would never get better, out of love and any shred of hope?

For crying out loud, he is not Scott f**** Peterson.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » March 31, 2005 5:44 pm

Blonde Stranger wrote:But you aren't the judge, and you weren't there. How can you take anything as proof she didn't utter those words?

And did you ever consider that during that time he was taking her to different locations to get therapy? It's in the court records, and in the guardian ad litem's report, if you'd bother to read it.

Did you ever even consider that just maybe, he delayed as long as he possibly could, the conclusion that she would never get better, out of love and any shred of hope?

For crying out loud, he is not Scott f***ing Peterson.

I never comapared him or mentioned Scott Peterson. You did though. perhaps that leaves some room for doubt in your mind? I do not know.

You are more than welcome to accept or deny any explanation as you choose to feel or believe the "why?" Just as I am free to question the "Why?"

Since HE, so sincerely wanted her wishes carried out, why he waited over 8 years to have brought up the alledged conversation to anyone ( let alone recall the alledged conversation).....He could have mentioned that conversation long before, and stated he was going against those wishes for his hope and love of her to recover,alll those years ago while waiting for treatments... Your explanation may work for you and that is kewl....But for ME PERSONALLY, there is more than reasonable doubt and questions that should have been answered, before she was killed in such manner.

I am not a judge, but to my own opinions... care to telll me courts are infallible??

Am I judging her??? Perhaps you may think so...you are free to think as you choose, at least I was not trying nor supporting the killing of an innocent person by a slow painful method... I feel I am only giving her voice that she cannot express....I am not saying she should die because that anyone should not want to live in such a state, just because I have the voice to so or that the state says she does not deserve to live. She was clearly alive.....she needed nothing more than food and water to maintain her life.. there were no electric or mechanical devices keeping her alive.

Her husband's treatment of the family today and in the last few years, is inexcusable IMNSHO.

Would you willingly and intentionally kill someone if there is reasonable doubt? Even if the courts ruled it so ? Would you really want that person to die, as long as you had cause for reasonable doubt?

Blonde Stranger · Post by **Blonde Stranger** » March 31, 2005 5:58 pm

You so eager to demonize Michael Schiavo simply because it fits with the rest of your agenda.

Do you honestly believe that at the trial of this matter, when both parties were able to put the totality of their evidence before the judge, and cross examine each others' witnesses, that that didn't occur or that the judge didn't allow it to occur? That he didn't make sure that the evidence was clear and convincing, the applicable standard? That the appellate court didn't examine the record of the trial to make sure that the judge didn't abuse his discretion or commit an error of law? That the Jeb Bush-appointed guardian ad litem who independently reviewed the facts ignored contrary evidence?

Sorry, but I think I'll take that over your vague assertion that "somethin' ain't right".

DonnaKayDunbar · Post by **DonnaKayDunbar** » April 1, 2005 12:28 am

Here's what I find really skeevy about the parents...

They were fine with Michael being the guardian until he was awarded money, $300k for his pain/suffering/loss/whathaveyou and $700k for her care.
The parents got p*** when Michael didn't give them any money or control.

Now, the parents have sold the names and personal information of people who have donated money to them and their cause...

Now, I think that you should take a step back, look at what Michael did out of love for his wife, making sure her wish was taken care of, going to school to become a nurse so he could better take care of his wife...

and his parents... forcing their child to "live" so that they could play puppeteer. For what? Financial gain. Control.

If you want to know who makes me scratch my head its the parents & family.

Terri's sister, seen in several press photos smiling at the camera while her mother makes a tearful "plea for her daughter's life".

but its all said and done, Terri is gone to a better place... a place she should have been allowed to traverse to years ago, long before this girl described as bashful was tossing so ruthlessly into the spotlight by her money-driven parents.

Shame on them.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » April 1, 2005 12:33 am

Blonde Stranger wrote:You so eager to demonize Michael Schiavo simply because it fits with the rest of your agenda.

Do you honestly believe that at the trial of this matter, when both parties were able to put the totality of their evidence before the judge, and cross examine each others' witnesses, that that didn't occur or that the judge didn't allow it to occur? That he didn't make sure that the evidence was clear and convincing, the applicable standard? That the appellate court didn't examine the record of the trial to make sure that the judge didn't abuse his discretion or commit an error of law? That the Jeb Bush-appointed guardian ad litem who independently reviewed the facts ignored contrary evidence?

Sorry, but I think I'll take that over your vague assertion that "somethin' ain't right".

Yeah your "Sorry" alright!

You are more than cordially welcome to take whatever the BLEEP you like anyway you want...

After all I am quite sure you are familiar with the saying about opinions.... and you have yours and I have mine...

Tell me do YOU honestly believe tht judges and doctors are infallible? That they are always correct in their decisions?

If YOU were on a jury of someone for a capital offense.... Could you honestly say you would not have reasonable doubt over this and sentence someone to be executed?

At least I am not for the murder and killling of an innocent woman with no voice by a slow and painful process....I did not judge her life or her wishes nor have I have I placed any judgement upon her. As I said I have and see reasonable doubt...

Wink and roll your eyes all you like... an innocent woman paid the price with her life. Apparently you have no problem with that......meanwhile her family and friends and others are in pain....

moog · Post by **moog** » April 1, 2005 2:27 am

In my will, it will say:

If I am in a so called brain dead state, please don't put me on TV. In addition, the pro and anti lifers must stay 45 miles away from my hospice bed.

captainjoe · Post by **captainjoe** » April 1, 2005 2:56 am

My only beef in this situation are the people who wanted the parents to take over saying that the ones who wanted this to remain a husband/wife issue just wanted to see Terri die. I firmly believe that this is a husband/wife decision and it is not up to the Congress or President or Courts or Governors to decide. That being said, I did not want to see Terri die. I would not have been upset if Michael gave guardianship over to the parents. I do not disagree with the parents going to court, if I am ever in that situation, I don't know what I would do. I just dont like Congress getting involved. This is how they get their foot in the door. It's only a matter of time before we start to give up more and more of our privacy.

Death should be a private matter and it should not have been treated like a sporting event. That being said, please remember to tell your husband/wife/partner that you want to sign a living will. Godforbid if this ever happens to you, you won't wind up on the six o'clock news.

Blonde Stranger · Post by **Blonde Stranger** » April 1, 2005 9:50 am

Sam wrote:
Blonde Stranger wrote:You so eager to demonize Michael Schiavo simply because it fits with the rest of your agenda.

Do you honestly believe that at the trial of this matter, when both parties were able to put the totality of their evidence before the judge, and cross examine each others' witnesses, that that didn't occur or that the judge didn't allow it to occur? That he didn't make sure that the evidence was clear and convincing, the applicable standard? That the appellate court didn't examine the record of the trial to make sure that the judge didn't abuse his discretion or commit an error of law? That the Jeb Bush-appointed guardian ad litem who independently reviewed the facts ignored contrary evidence?

Sorry, but I think I'll take that over your vague assertion that "somethin' ain't right".

Yeah your "Sorry" alright!

You are more than cordially welcome to take whatever the BLEEP you like anyway you want...

After all I am quite sure you are familiar with the saying about opinions.... and you have yours and I have mine...

Tell me do YOU honestly believe tht judges and doctors are infallible? That they are always correct in their decisions?

If YOU were on a jury of someone for a capital offense.... Could you honestly say you would not have reasonable doubt over this and sentence someone to be executed?

At least I am not for the murder and killling of an innocent woman with no voice by a slow and painful process....I did not judge her life or her wishes nor have I have I placed any judgement upon her. As I said I have and see reasonable doubt...

Wink and roll your eyes all you like... an innocent woman paid the price with her life. Apparently you have no problem with that......meanwhile her family and friends and others are in pain....

First, my point was not that judges can never make a mistake, but that in this case, both sides had every chance to put their best case forward. The judge decided the case by listening to the testimony, weighing the credibility of the witnesses and deciding based on the applicable burden and standard of proof (which is not, by the way, beyond a reasonable doubt). It's what judges do. There has been no EVIDENCE that contradicts this. Your paranoia notwithstanding.

This woman has been seen by doctor after doctor. The ones who performed examinations of her have all come to the conclusion that she is in a PVS. The chance of misdiagnosis is nil. Why do you keep ignoring the facts?

Are you suggesting that in this case the judge should have ignored the law and set aside the correct burden of proof? Or that he should have disregarded the evidence and followed his conscience instead?

Jahfin · Post by **Jahfin** » April 5, 2005 9:42 am

By ROBERT FRIEDMAN, Perspective Editor
St. Petersburg Time

Like many of you, I have been compelled by recent events to prepare a more
detailed
advance directive dealing with end-of-life issues.
Here's what mine says:

* In the event I lapse into a persistent vegetative state, I want
medical authorities to resort to extraordinary means to prolong my
hellish semiexistence. Fifteen years wouldn't be long enough for me.

* I want my wife and my parents to compound their misery by
engaging in a bitter and protracted feud that depletes their emotions and
their bank accounts.

* I want my wife to ruin the rest of her life by maintaining an interminable
vigil at my
bedside. I'd be really jealous if she waited less than a decade to start dating
again or
otherwise rebuilding a semblance of a normal life.

* I want my case to be turned into a circus by losers and crackpots from around
the
country who hope to bring meaning to their empty lives by investing the same
transient
emotion in me that they once reserved for Laci Peterson, Chandra Levy and that
little girl
who got stuck in a well.

* I want those crackpots to spread vicious lies about my wife.

* I want to be placed in a hospice where protesters can gather to bring
further grief and
disruption to the lives of dozens of dying patients and families whose stories
are sadder
than my own.

* I want the people who attach themselves to my case because of their deep
devotion to
the sanctity of life to make death threats against any judges, elected
officials or health
care professionals who disagree with them.

* I want the medical geniuses and philosopher nbsp; kings who populate the
Florida Legislature to ignore me for more than a decade and then turn my case
into a
forum for weeks of politically calculated bloviation.

* I want total strangers - oily politicians, maudlin news anchors, ersatz
friars and all other
hangers-on - to start calling me "Bobby," as if they had known me since
childhood.

* I'm not insisting on this as part of my directive, but it would be nice if
Congress passed
a "Bobby's Law" that applied only to me and ignored the medical needs of tens
of
millions of other Americans without adequate health coverage.

* Even if the "Bobby's Law" idea doesn't work out, I want Congress - especially
all those
self-described conservatives who claim to believe in "less government and more

freedom" - to trample on the decisions of doctors, judges! bsp; and other
experts who
actually know something about my case. And I want members of Congress to
launch into
an extended debate that gives them another excuse to avoid pesky issues such
as
national security and the economy.

* In particular, I want House Majority Leader Tom DeLay to use my case as an
opportunity
to divert the country's attention from the mounting political and legal
troubles stemming
from his slimy misbehavior.

* And I want Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist to make a mockery of his Harvard
medical
degree by misrepresenting the details of my case in ways that might give a
boost to his
2008 presidential campaign.

* I want Frist and the rest of the world to judge my medical condition on the
basis of a
snippet of dated and demeaning videotape that should have remained private.

* Because I think I would retain my sense of humor even in a persistent
vegetative state,
I'd want President Bush - the same guy who publicly mocked Karla Faye Tucker
when
signing off on her death warrant as governor of Texas - to claim he was
intervening in my
case because it is always best "to err on the side of life."

* I want the state Department of Children and Families to step in at the last
moment to
take responsibility for my well-being, because nothing bad could ever happen to
anyone
under DCF's care.

* And because Gov. Jeb Bush is the smartest and most righteous human being on
the face
of the Earth, I want any and all of the aforementioned directives to be
disregarded if the
governor happens to disagree with them. If he says he knows what's best for me,
I won't
be in any position to argue.

tommcat327 · Post by **tommcat327** » April 5, 2005 10:08 pm

i'm trying to rig up some sort of contraption to shoot myself if that situation happens to me and nobody is kind enough to obey my wishes and do it for me

buffettbride · Post by **buffettbride** » April 5, 2005 10:21 pm

tommcat327 wrote:i'm trying to rig up some sort of contraption to shoot myself if that situation happens to me and nobody is kind enough to obey my wishes and do it for me

Don't forget to post your BLOG first.

http://durrrrr.blogspot.com/

tommcat327 · Post by **tommcat327** » April 5, 2005 10:24 pm

buffettbride wrote:
tommcat327 wrote:i'm trying to rig up some sort of contraption to shoot myself if that situation happens to me and nobody is kind enough to obey my wishes and do it for me
Don't forget to post your BLOG first.

http://durrrrr.blogspot.com/

fell out of my chair laughing at that one

buffettbride · Post by **buffettbride** » April 5, 2005 10:24 pm

tommcat327 wrote:
buffettbride wrote:
tommcat327 wrote:i'm trying to rig up some sort of contraption to shoot myself if that situation happens to me and nobody is kind enough to obey my wishes and do it for me
Don't forget to post your BLOG first.

http://durrrrr.blogspot.com/
fell out of my chair laughing at that one

You made it simply irrisistable honey!

tommcat327 · Post by **tommcat327** » April 5, 2005 10:26 pm

buffettbride wrote:
tommcat327 wrote:
buffettbride wrote:
tommcat327 wrote:i'm trying to rig up some sort of contraption to shoot myself if that situation happens to me and nobody is kind enough to obey my wishes and do it for me
Don't forget to post your BLOG first.

http://durrrrr.blogspot.com/
fell out of my chair laughing at that one
You made it simply irrisistable honey!

nnnnguh

buffettbride · Post by **buffettbride** » April 5, 2005 10:27 pm

tommcat327 wrote:
buffettbride wrote:
tommcat327 wrote:
buffettbride wrote:
tommcat327 wrote:i'm trying to rig up some sort of contraption to shoot myself if that situation happens to me and nobody is kind enough to obey my wishes and do it for me
Don't forget to post your BLOG first.

http://durrrrr.blogspot.com/
fell out of my chair laughing at that one
You made it simply irrisistable honey!
nnnnguh

**smoochies**