Pete Rose debate...

parrothead338 · Post by **parrothead338** » April 9, 2005 11:54 pm

I am giving a speech on Tuesday in my public speeking class. It has to be a persuasive speech so I chose to speek on why Pete Rose should be inducted into the Hall of Fame.

For me, I see people who have done things far worse than Pete Rose (steroids etc.) who are (or will be) in the HOF and see a huge double standard present. Gaylord Perry (who admits to cheating by using spitballs) is in the Hall of Fame. Ty Cobb (racist, possibly involved in a murder, cheater) is in the HOF. I just see so many peeople in the HOF who have done things so much worse and think Pete should be allowed in... even if an "*" has to be placed on his plaque.

I was just curious as to what some of your opinions were on the subject of Pete Rose and the Hall of Fame??

captainjoe · Post by **captainjoe** » April 9, 2005 11:59 pm

I agree. I think that what he does off the field is his business. The only thing that I did not like is when he bet on the Reds. If you want to bet, that is fine - just don't bet on your own team.

Major League Baseball should let him in as a player, not a coach.

You might want to check this out, but I THINK Pete Rose has been involved in more winning games than any other player in baseball history (playing and coaching).

CaptainP · Post by **CaptainP** » April 10, 2005 12:06 am

In. 4000 hits. In.

On the field and off the field, 2 different things. People have done FAR worse things and made it in, but Joe Jackson and Pete Rose are out.

FFishstick · Post by **FFishstick** » April 10, 2005 12:07 am

I agree as well. As for the betting on the Reds, he only bett on them to win. If he threw games it would be far worse, but he bet on them to win. I think it is a shame that MLB used him as a whipping post and scape goat for all that was wrong with baseball at that time. We will never know how good of a manager or GM he really could have been. I firmly believe he should be placed in the HOF

weirdo0521 · Post by **weirdo0521** » April 10, 2005 12:16 am

FFishstick wrote:I agree as well. As for the betting on the Reds, he only bett on them to win. If he threw games it would be far worse, but he bet on them to win. I think it is a shame that MLB used him as a whipping post and scape goat for all that was wrong with baseball at that time. We will never know how good of a manager or GM he really could have been. I firmly believe he should be placed in the HOF

If you always bet on your team to win, the day you don't bet on them you are essentially betting against them. If you think he didn't bet against them you should read more of the reports...the ones he saw and after viewing them, voluntarily signed a lifetime ban from baseball.

CaptainP · Post by **CaptainP** » April 10, 2005 12:17 am

They told him, "admit to betting on baseball, we'll let you in".
It took 15 years, but he admitted it.
They didn't let him in.

CaptainP · Post by **CaptainP** » April 10, 2005 12:18 am

weirdo0521 wrote:voluntarily signed a lifetime ban from baseball.

A ban he was PROMISED would be lifted after 1 year. SHoulda got that in writing.

weirdo0521 · Post by **weirdo0521** » April 10, 2005 12:23 am

parrothead338 wrote:I am giving a speech on Tuesday in my public speeking class. It has to be a persuasive speech so I chose to speek on why Pete Rose should be inducted into the Hall of Fame.

For me, I see people who have done things far worse than Pete Rose (steroids etc.) who are (or will be) in the HOF and see a huge double standard present. Gaylord Perry (who admits to cheating by using spitballs) is in the Hall of Fame. Ty Cobb (racist, possibly involved in a murder, cheater) is in the HOF. I just see so many peeople in the HOF who have done things so much worse and think Pete should be allowed in... even if an "*" has to be placed on his plaque.

I was just curious as to what some of your opinions were on the subject of Pete Rose and the Hall of Fame??

Well, I think steroid use is horrible. But you get what you ask for. MLB had no steroid ban up until two years ago. Therefore the alleged users did not violate any rules of MLB.
Rose's violations involved the integrity of the game. Anytime he had action on a game, the consequences become a result of that, tainted, if you will. He knew what he did was in strict violation of MLB rules. It's posted in every lockeroom/clubhouse. He also voluntarily accepted the ban from the Commissioner. He then lspent the next 14 years denying that he ever wagered on baseball. Then he changed his story in order to seeel books.

sonofabeach · Post by **sonofabeach** » April 10, 2005 12:23 am

IMO he should be in.
You can not take away what he did on the field.
But even if he never gets in, everyone and their mama will still know he was "the man", Charlie Hustle.
Maybe he should open up his own Pete Rose's hall of fame or museumesque type thingy....

weirdo0521 · Post by **weirdo0521** » April 10, 2005 12:24 am

CaptainP wrote:They told him, "admit to betting on baseball, we'll let you in".
It took 15 years, but he admitted it.
They didn't let him in.

No one from MLB has ever stated that. Many fans but nobody in an official capacity.

weirdo0521 · Post by **weirdo0521** » April 10, 2005 12:25 am

CaptainP wrote:
weirdo0521 wrote:voluntarily signed a lifetime ban from baseball.
A ban he was PROMISED would be lifted after 1 year. SHoulda got that in writing.

By who?

weirdo0521 · Post by **weirdo0521** » April 10, 2005 12:28 am

sonofabeach wrote:IMO he should be in.
You can not take away what he did on the field.
But even if he never gets in, everyone and their mama will still know he was "the man", Charlie Hustle.
Maybe he should open up his own Pete Rose's hall of fame or museumesque type thingy....

That's another thing a lot of baseball people don't like about him. Every year he shows up in Cooperstown on induction day selling his stuff down the street. Quite a few writers/voters don't care for this. It is other players big day and he makes it a sideshow. I think if the ban is lifted he would still have a hard time getting in because of his actions.

Wino you know · Post by **Wino you know** » April 10, 2005 12:29 am

4,256 hits
44 game hitting streak in 1978 (modern day N.L. record)
Selected for the all-star game at five different positions
More games played than anyone in history
More at-bats than anyone in history
Gold glove winner as 2B, LF, RF, 3B, & 1B
23 consecutive seasons with 100 or more hits
10 seasons with 200 or more hits
World Series M.V.P. in 1975
N.L. M.V.P. in 1969

I think just THOSE facts speak for themselves. Knock off the B.S. and put him IN the hall of fame, or get Ty Cobb OUT!
Yes, it's unfortunate he bet on his Cincinnati Reds, but he bet on them to WIN. Had he bet on them to lose, I'd probably feel differently.
But he DOES belong in the hall of fame.
Too bad Mr. B.S. Selig doesn't think so.

ejr · Post by **ejr** » April 10, 2005 12:29 am

I have always said that he belonged in the Hall of Fame-he had an amazing career, and still holds many records. You can't deny the career he had.

his arrogance about admittting to the gambling bothers me-he clearly bet on baseball, which was totally wrong though there is no way he ever bet against his team-he was too much of a competitor.

my latest take on it is that he should go into the Hall of Fame......the day after he dies, so he does not have the personal satisfaction.

CaptainP · Post by **CaptainP** » April 10, 2005 12:30 am

weirdo0521 wrote:
CaptainP wrote:
weirdo0521 wrote:voluntarily signed a lifetime ban from baseball.
A ban he was PROMISED would be lifted after 1 year. SHoulda got that in writing.
By who?

The Commissioner. He died a month later. Pete and his lawyers still attest that this was agreed upon.

captainjoe · Post by **captainjoe** » April 10, 2005 12:33 am

I don't know if this is true, but I heard this a couple of years ago - When Michael Jordan was going through his problems with gambling, right after his father "died", the NBA was going to suspend him for the gambling, but knowing how much money he brings into the league, they let him "retire" for a couple of years. That way both he and the league could save face. Michael Jordan gambled, Dennis Rodman gambled - they were never punished. Let Rose in!

weirdo0521 · Post by **weirdo0521** » April 10, 2005 12:33 am

ejr wrote:I have always said that he belonged in the Hall of Fame-he had an amazing career, and still holds many records. You can't deny the career he had.

his arrogance about admittting to the gambling bothers me-he clearly bet on baseball, which was totally wrong though there is no way he ever bet against his team-he was too much of a competitor.

my latest take on it is that he should go into the Hall of Fame......the day after he dies, so he does not have the personal satisfaction.

They have pretty solid evidence he bet against the Reds. As I stated before, if you bet on your team to win regularly, the day you don't is betting against them.

weirdo0521 · Post by **weirdo0521** » April 10, 2005 12:40 am

captainjoe wrote:I don't know if this is true, but I heard this a couple of years ago - When Michael Jordan was going through his problems with gambling, right after his father "died", the NBA was going to suspend him for the gambling, but knowing how much money he brings into the league, they let him "retire" for a couple of years. That way both he and the league could save face. Michael Jordan gambled, Dennis Rodman gambled - they were never punished. Let Rose in!

Well that is a rumor.. Some peole claim it is true, others not....the difference is, there is evidence Pete Rose did gamble. And I have never heard allegations of Jordan or Rodman gambling on basketball. Big difference.

CaptainP · Post by **CaptainP** » April 10, 2005 12:46 am

weirdo0521 wrote:
captainjoe wrote:I don't know if this is true, but I heard this a couple of years ago - When Michael Jordan was going through his problems with gambling, right after his father "died", the NBA was going to suspend him for the gambling, but knowing how much money he brings into the league, they let him "retire" for a couple of years. That way both he and the league could save face. Michael Jordan gambled, Dennis Rodman gambled - they were never punished. Let Rose in!
Well that is a rumor.. Some peole claim it is true, others not....the difference is, there is evidence Pete Rose did gamble. And I have never heard allegations of Jordan or Rodman gambling on basketball. Big difference.

As for the Jordan thing, one sportswriter speculated on that one day, and suddenly it was being accepted as likely. I doubt it was ever true.

ragtopW · Post by **ragtopW** » April 10, 2005 12:54 am

captainjoe wrote:I don't know if this is true, but I heard this a couple of years ago - When Michael Jordan was going through his problems with gambling, right after his father "died", the NBA was going to suspend him for the gambling, but knowing how much money he brings into the league, they let him "retire" for a couple of years. That way both he and the league could save face. Michael Jordan gambled, Dennis Rodman gambled - they were never punished. Let Rose in!

A MJs "Baseball playing days" was a suspension

B Dennis bets on Cards.. Baccarat (I have seen this)
and dates strippers

I have seen this too

C Karl Malone has been seen at Wendover.. at the 21 table.

D as a lifelong Giants fan I do not like Pete. But the fact is he did rock the house as a player.. IMHO in he goes..

BuffettNews.com

Pete Rose debate...

Pete Rose debate...

Re: Pete Rose debate...