BuffettNews.com

DsilCaribe wrote:

creeky wrote:
I guess I dont understand the attitude that "people owe them" - hard to explain - but I just have the feeling that they feel they are entitled to a lot ....

hmm . . . i dont really follow. Do u mean that u think that Gen Y'ers think their elders owe them, or their peers? I guess i dont really feel that i am owed a lot (but maybe i am and just dont realize it)

give me an example and maybe i can help a little more

Just life in general - they are entitled to anything and everything .... they live in a high consumable society I guess - but they also believe they she use what htey are entitled to - rather than just what they need ....

(I am sure other Generation people do as well - but it has been identified out here as a trend with Y peeps!)

creeky wrote:

DsilCaribe wrote:

creeky wrote:
I guess I dont understand the attitude that "people owe them" - hard to explain - but I just have the feeling that they feel they are entitled to a lot ....

hmm . . . i dont really follow. Do u mean that u think that Gen Y'ers think their elders owe them, or their peers? I guess i dont really feel that i am owed a lot (but maybe i am and just dont realize it)

give me an example and maybe i can help a little more

Just life in general - they are entitled to anything and everything .... they live in a high consumable society I guess - but they also believe they she use what htey are entitled to - rather than just what they need ....

(I am sure other Generation people do as well - but it has been identified out here as a trend with Y peeps!)

uh huh, now i follow and i definitley see it within my peers and myself . . . but i couldn't tell ya why Ill try to think about it and get back to ya

I have to say, I am enjoying this dialogue wiht you - I was afraid I might get jumped all over - but I honestly want to learn to understand ....

Ya finally hit it, Creeky...it's entitlement. That's one of my biggest pet peeves. We have a whole generation who thinks they are "owed" everything they want. It kills me to see kids with cell phones, iPods, fancy cars etc. Good grief, I just turned 40 and I'm just now allowing myself to buy that stuff. Kids can't even take a field trip without having a cd player, iPod whatever for a 2 hour drive. Kids get out of high school and want a job making more than 60K a year...they don't want to take what they get and prove themselves worthy of making a higher salary.

I do blame the parents who seem to be living vicariously thru their kids. It's not longer okay to keep up with the Joneses, now you have to surpass them. You're kids have to be the coolest, have to be involved in every activity, have every nifty new gadget and invention so you look like the coolest parent on the block. I know a parent who worked at my school who would let her kid stay home cuz he was tired or he had too much stuff to do for SCOUTS! I know Scouts are important, but missing school goes against everything scouts stand for. And our kids are constantly absent for stupid stuff, and many are just plain rude because they are allowed to act that way.

Here's a classic case we had in the school district where I live. My neighbor was the chief education officer at the high school. She ran a tight ship. She instituted a policy that if you had "X" number of absences before the prom you weren't going. It might have been for a whole year, I can't remember the details, but it was more than fair. If you had a documented medical condition obviously it didn't apply. They were having a horrendous problem with kids cutting school and their parents writing them notes. Prom time rolls around and what do ya know, a whole pack of "cool kids" aren't allowed to go to the prom. They knew all along what the policy was, they chose to ignore it, figuring that they were "good" college bound kids who were above the rules. Of course all hell broke loose and Katey took a lot of heat and negative press, but she stood firm. So what do the parents do? They rent out a place and throw their own prom for these kids, one that was far fancier than the school one. Their reason? It was the kids' RIGHT to go to their prom. I don't think so. Prom, like everything else, is a privilege, not a right. Of course they got tons of news coverage so they were doubly rewarded. So tell me...when these same kids don't feel like going to work are their parents going to write them notes or call their boss and say it is their right to take a day off? And these are the people who we will be depending on when we get older. God help us.

I realize that not everyone is this way...but it sure seems to be a vocal and visible majority.

I know I grew up luckier than most kids. But even tho my parents could give us anything we wanted, they chose not to. We had to work for it. We never got anything when it first came out....we waited til prices came down. They also taught us to give back, to think of others before ourselves. It is because of those ethics that I am the person I am today, and I know I have made them proud. That's reward enough for me.

I agree with you BEG ...

I dont have a lot of exposure to school aged kids - I am referring more to the early generation gen y'ers - tho guess the same trends.

creeky wrote:I agree with you BEG ...

I dont have a lot of exposure to school aged kids - I am referring more to the early generation gen y'ers - tho guess the same trends.

The prom kids are in college now...actually maybe out of college. But the issues are evident across the age span.

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:

creeky wrote:I agree with you BEG ...

I dont have a lot of exposure to school aged kids - I am referring more to the early generation gen y'ers - tho guess the same trends.

The prom kids are in college now...actually maybe out of college. But the issues are evident across the age span.

One thing that bugs me - *(and it does cross generations - but more prevalent with Y's) is - what did people do before mobile phones? Like- there is a perfectly good working phone on your desk - but they have to have their mobile phones beside them as well - cause they are SO important - they might miss an important message

I can understand business people having one - but like, I am in a more responsible position than they - and I have no need for one on during the day - I am at work to "work" ya know?

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:Prom, like everything else, is a privilege, not a right.

I used to (and sometimes still do) hear that speech from my parents . . ."so and so" is a privilidge, not a right. . . so i think herein lies the major discrepency between Gen Y and others. The reason may be, as you said, because the parents give everything to their kids so they;'ve come to expect it to be handed to them. I think that the Gen Y'ers learn (and will learn) that everything isn't handed to them, and that they have to go out and get things on their own, when they go to college. . . thats where i learned best to become indipendent and go out and get what i need on my own. . . so i dont really think we will be like this when we get older (at least i dont think i will)

BEG wrote:We never got anything when it first came out....we waited til prices came down. They also taught us to give back, to think of others before ourselves. It is because of those ethics that I am the person I am today, and I know I have made them proud. That's reward enough for me.

Now on the otherhand, I was also raised in the fashion of "dont buy anything until its on sale" so because of that i feel really guilty or cheated when i dont buy something on sale or for cheap. So i dont think that this really applies to all Gen Y'ers or at least most of the ones i know, but i certainly see it in many (especially the ones from wealthier families from new england, new york, or so cal. . . i dont see it so much in the Gen Y'ers i know from the midwest)

The problems I see, Dsil, are that things aren't changing when kids get out of college. That may simply be because parents are not allowing or forcing their kids to become independent. I know far too many friends whose 20 something kids are still living at home...with menial jobs, no careers. It seems we've failed to instill a work ethic in many kids.

Obviously this does not apply to everyone of this generation, heck on BN alone I can think of numerous exceptions. But the visible and vocal majority are creating this impression, whether it is valid or not.

And I don't think the midwest is immune to it. I think anywhere you have a solid middle class/upper middle class/upper class community you're gonna find similar issues.

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:
Obviously this does not apply to everyone of this generation, heck on BN alone I can think of numerous exceptions. But the visible and vocal majority are creating this impression, whether it is valid or not.

And I don't think the midwest is immune to it. I think anywhere you have a solid middle class/upper middle class/upper class community you're gonna find similar issues.

Well, I dont really think the visible and vocal majority are creating that impression that you gave (of kids living with their parents out of college in menial jobs) and i dont think the impression is valid. Hell, college is more competittive now than ever, and getting a good job out of college is even more competittive. I think you might be taking a little bit too tuff of a view on us

I think what you esentially have is a group of kids being pushed by their PARENTS to achieve academic success so that their kid goes to a good private university, where $160,000 later their kid can graduate with a degree and get a high paying job and be at a "higher plane of life" than the parents were at that age. I think you were absolutley right when you pointed out that parents are now living vicariously through their kids . . because they realize that they are too old to get to that "plane" that they want to be, so they'd be happy if their kids are there, so that when they get older, their kids can maybe compensate them or something, i dunno.

regarding the midwest, all i know is that i know many more snotty little rich-boy brats from NYC area and boston and LA then i know from back home in Ohio

Dsil, I'm sorry...I guess I didn't say that very clearly. I meant the overall entitlement impression was being created by the majority...not the college thingie. The college part is an observation I have made over the years. I also am seeing a lot of kids who aren't going to college and whose parents are pushing them to. Now college isn't for everyone, but a steady job is, and yet I'm not seeing that either. I think you'll find there are more older kids living at home these days than in the past. Now that may be due to the economy, housing costs etc. But it also seems that these kids aren't saving any money to go out on their own either...which all goes back to that independence we talked about earlier.

I'm not trying to personalize this to your age group. The Gen Y is a large age span as well...and I'm seeing much worse stuff in the younger kids. And truthfully, that kinda scares me.

As for the parents...I don't think it's an issue of compensation later in life. I think they want to be thought of as cool, awesome parents and want to impress people, even if they have to go into debt to prove it. It all seems to be an issue of perception...i.e. how they want to be perceived.

And all generations have had their problems and issues. Heck, half of my generation was probably too coked up to even think about entitlement!

I was never coked up - tho I have had issues with it and now dont drink it anymore .....

hold on im Generation Y, i never knew that outta all my years, i thought i was Generation pepsi or next or what ever those commercials said, now i havta learn what all i like, and what my phrases are, dang it so many years down the drain

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:

HsvParrothead wrote:

YooperPH wrote:It ticks me off that "technically" I am labled a generation yer, but I don't understand them either! I think I should be allowed to mingle with the xers. Anybody who remembers the 80's should be.

Wait a sec... I'm a "Gen X'er"... you and your hubby dont look any younger than me (dont mean that as an insult)... so now I'm confused...

When was the supposed cut off for Gen X?? Cause they sure as hell called my class that all through and right after high school

One thing I read said Gen X was people born in the 60's and 70's, another said '61-'81...but the people referred to in the articles were 20 somethings. Hellloooo, I just turned 40. It seems there must be a generation within a generation.

Edited to add that another article says Gen Y's were born between '79 and '94.

Boomers are supposedly from about 45-65, or 45-62, or something.. then there is a notch, and X-ers start about 68ish, not sure about Ys. Of course, starting so late in the alphabet makes you wonder how they are going to label 3 generations down the line.

Finally ran across a topic I feel fairly well informed about... Hope you don't mind.

Fellow named William Strauss has done a lot of research on American generations. Got two or three books out, and I think he's nailed it on a lot of stuff.

First, the group you refer to as Generation Y is called the "Millennial" generation by Strauss. The first wave of Millennials graduated high school in 2000, and the last of them should graduate somewhere around 2022. (Each generation is approximately the length of time from birth until usual child-bearing age.)

According to Strauss, Millennials are basically the product of (mostly) Boomer parents who rebelled greatly as young adults, and are very idealistic. When they finally had kids, they've gradually become more and more protective of their kids, and are trying to give them the best of everything. They also want to protect their kids from doing the same crazy stuff they did as young people. This has resulted in the push for good grades, parental confrontations with educators who don't give the good grades, zero-tolerance policies, tons and tons of material goods, etc. etc. etc.

There is some good news, though. Even though (it seems to me) that many of these kids feel entitled to things, they are doing some good. All youth trends are now moving in a positive direction. SAT scores have begun reversing the 17 year slide (during the time the Boomers grew up), drugs use is down, teen pregnancy is down, teen crime is down.

I know, I know... we still hear about all kinds of crazy stuff, but those are actually the exceptions to the statistics, not the norms.

According to Strauss, the Millennials are going to end up most similar to the WWII generation. Very civic-minded, well educated, can-do, optimistic, etc. Good news for us, assuming he's right.

Having been an educator for quite a while now, I really do think he's correct. I noticed a rather dramatic change in attitudes of kids towards school back in the early to mid-nineties. Kids then didn't get too worked up about grades, didn't start planning college early, and didn't care much about ACT/SAT scores. Starting in 1996-1997 or so, that changed BIG TIME. The school I worked at recently graduated a class where the top ten kids were within about 1/10th of a grade point, were all great in athletics and music, and were honestly good people. Very cool.

So... as a Gen X'er (described by Strauss as "pragmatic, concerned only with the bottom line of the matter, even cranky") I'm pretty optimistic about these Millennials. Yup, they've still got some problems, and can be pretty self-centered, but they're also pretty capable and (I think) will end up being decent people.

Thanks for that info, Krusin1. It does indeed give us hope, assuming he's right. It sounds like you're an educator in the high school. I've spent 18 years in elementary and from what I've seen the attitude towards education at that age level is lax at best. The kids aren't studying because they are too busy doing every after shool activity known to man. So their parents do their homework (if it gets done at all) and then complain when the kids bomb the tests. I have watched teachers go over a test completely the day before, reviewing and giving the kids the answers or where to look for them, and have watched half the class or more fail the test. I just can't explain that. What else can we do, take it for them?

I really don't see the degree of over protectiveness that I would expect. Instead I see parents who refuse to acknowledge or take responsibility for inappropriate behavior or actions that their kids have done.

It is nice to know that by the time they hit high school those trends appear to be reversing. I just hope that holds true for the future.

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:Thanks for that info, Krusin1. It does indeed give us hope, assuming he's right. It sounds like you're an educator in the high school. I've spent 18 years in elementary and from what I've seen the attitude towards education at that age level is lax at best. The kids aren't studying because they are too busy doing every after shool activity known to man. So their parents do their homework (if it gets done at all) and then complain when the kids bomb the tests. I have watched teachers go over a test completely the day before, reviewing and giving the kids the answers or where to look for them, and have watched half the class or more fail the test. I just can't explain that. What else can we do, take it for them?

I really don't see the degree of over protectiveness that I would expect. Instead I see parents who refuse to acknowledge or take responsibility for inappropriate behavior or actions that their kids have done.

It is nice to know that by the time they hit high school those trends appear to be reversing. I just hope that holds true for the future.

I hope it holds, too. I know what you mean, though, about the parents refusing to acknowledge or take responsibility for kids inappropriate behavior/actions. I think that still relates back to the overprotective nature the parents are displaying, though. You know, worrying about damaging self-esteem, trying to make sure the kid never gets feelings hurt, stand up for your kid at all costs because parents believe (mistakenly) that shows they love them. Also goes back to one of the basic Boomer traits - challenge authority and insist that the world change to accommodate the way they want things to go.

Hmmm... probably hacked off a few Boomers there. Sorry.

BTW... guilty as charged - high school teacher/administrator for 11 years. (Afraid I've recently become "central office" although not sure I'm fitting in very well with the rest of the suits, though. )

Parrotheads at school...you and I ought to get together and swap stories.

krusin1 wrote: I hope it holds, too. I know what you mean, though, about the parents refusing to acknowledge or take responsibility for kids inappropriate behavior/actions. I think that still relates back to the overprotective nature the parents are displaying, though. You know, worrying about damaging self-esteem, trying to make sure the kid never gets feelings hurt, stand up for your kid at all costs because parents believe (mistakenly) that shows they love them. Also goes back to one of the basic Boomer traits - challenge authority and insist that the world change to accommodate the way they want things to go.

Hmmm... probably hacked off a few Boomers there. Sorry.

BTW... guilty as charged - high school teacher/administrator for 11 years. (Afraid I've recently become "central office" although not sure I'm fitting in very well with the rest of the suits, though. )

Parrotheads at school...you and I ought to get together and swap stories.

Good points there, again. I guess all these "generations" have looked like disasters to the previous ones...and yet most end up just fine.

And as for being a PH at school, i was surprised at home many parents were PHs. They all knew I was since I have personalized plates, but it was funny when I found out they were. I even burned some "clean" CDs for one family who opened up a Rocky Mountain Chocolate Factory in town, since their kids were old enough to start understanding the lyrics. They play them in the store all the time and the kids think I'm the coolest.

I don't know where the rebellion came from, vrom the vets of The War that created Sturgis or that perhaps James Dean made it "popular and Cool".

Each succeeding generation will always have it's faults from the former and either gradually become more permissive....the technology has vastly increased but how it is used for good or for bad is a two way street.
anyone remember ELvis or the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show?
Do keets really need to have $300.00 sneakers and designer jeans and clothes? and their "bling-bling"? or drive in cars or trucks with speakers that are fit for a stadium? Wear shorts that are half falling off their body?
I can find a alot of fault with SOME of the keets, but not all of them!But isn't that the way of every generation?

Just when you expect the worst out of what ever generation, you will find those in that/ from that generation that will go beyond your belief in the good they can and will do.

Baby Boomers were so named because of the "boom in births" at the end of WWII. A generation today is considered to be around 20 years. Just because some is a memeber of a certain generation means nothing more than a basic stereotyping or generalization. As with all stereotypes and generalizations, we KNOW how they work out. Are the majority of keets today anyworse than they were a generation or 2 or 3 ago? Well one can ask, how many keets were killers or rapist or other violent crimminals at such an age?

I do not know why or how the gens X and Y came out. At one time there were "Latch Key Kids".

How many of the keets that actually do good and succeed are heard about? Like the war in Iraq, only the bad things that happen, usually make the news or press and gain attention...once again the squeaky wheel gets the most oil and the others are ignored. Forget the good and concentrate on the bad. I do feel and believe by doing such does contribute into making more bad situations and enabling some keets to get their 15 minutes of fame, just like it does the terrs in Iraq and elsewhere and gives them strength and draw others into the vicious cycle.

Perhaps, my opine on this is wrong...I have several friends that are teachers at various levels. One teacher I know, taught an advanced class and most of the students were gone during finals....out doing "whatever school authorized curriculum".

But....I FEEL and think one of the MAJOR problems is all the Political Correctness and feel good crap going around. Hardly anyone spanks a child anymore since Dr. Spock came along. Spanking worked for well over 3,000 years and there were never any "Columbines" were there?
Now we have keets threatening parents with 911 if they are spanked. ( NOTE SPANKING DOES NOT MEAN ABUSED!!!)
Anyway just my $00.02 worth!

And yes I am a "baby boomer" for whatever it is worth......

DsilCaribe wrote:

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:
Obviously this does not apply to everyone of this generation, heck on BN alone I can think of numerous exceptions. But the visible and vocal majority are creating this impression, whether it is valid or not.

And I don't think the midwest is immune to it. I think anywhere you have a solid middle class/upper middle class/upper class community you're gonna find similar issues.

Well, I dont really think the visible and vocal majority are creating that impression that you gave (of kids living with their parents out of college in menial jobs) and i dont think the impression is valid. Hell, college is more competittive now than ever, and getting a good job out of college is even more competittive. I think you might be taking a little bit too tuff of a view on us

I think what you esentially have is a group of kids being pushed by their PARENTS to achieve academic success so that their kid goes to a good private university, where $160,000 later their kid can graduate with a degree and get a high paying job and be at a "higher plane of life" than the parents were at that age. I think you were absolutley right when you pointed out that parents are now living vicariously through their kids . . because they realize that they are too old to get to that "plane" that they want to be, so they'd be happy if their kids are there, so that when they get older, their kids can maybe compensate them or something, i dunno.

regarding the midwest, all i know is that i know many more snotty little rich-boy brats from NYC area and boston and LA then i know from back home in Ohio

They are alive and well in UA, New Albany and sections of Dublin...