Shots Fired at Evacuation Choppers

[Margarita Matt]

I would suggest this ends all discussions. If a person isn't able to put themselves in somebody elses shoes when things are going well, they're not going to feel any sympathy during a disaster.

I WAS IN THEIR SHOES. I pulled myself out of poverty. I suggest they do the same.

[OceanCityGirl]

I've been poor also. I know that it's not always in the short term the person who is poor's fault. I also know that not everybody has the ability to pull themselves out. They may go from welfare to a low paying job but they may not have the ability to get above that.
I can't fault people for being poor. But I grew up in what would be considered a low income inner city neighborhood. Most of the people in that neighborhood although they had problems and even some bad habits had a level of morality that wouldn't allow them to act like this. Poverty is not an excuse for lack of values.
Again, jplease note. I'm seperating looting, even homes for what

[sonofabeach]

Race should not be an issue here. It's not an issue at sporting events or concerts when predominantly white fans burn the town, flip cars and loot stores. People have their backs to the wall and are frustrated and some bad apples are spoiling the whole bunch of Katrina victoms. And I'm sure that most people committing these vicious acts are most likely young punk thugs who had this in mind from the get go or were not the most upstanding citizens to begin with.
I also feel that if you stayed behind it does not mean you are neccessarily an idiot. I'm thinking that some have been through hurricanes and did not think it would be this bad, even though experts were saying it would be.
Perhaps they did not anticipate the flooding to be this bad and wanted to defend their home and everything they've worked for. Heck the Superdome was intended to be a shelter for ones who could not leave and I'm sure that most people that went there thought it would suffice. But whatever the case it does not matter. They are there and need help.
And I also think that the situation is so bad that the criminal element needs to be arrested if feasible and even shot dead if need be. There needs to be a consequence.

[SchoolGirlHeart]

I, too, think that the Feds are a little bumfuzzled on the whole troop deployment thing. On Day 2 a FoxNews crawler said that the Pentagon advised state and local authorities that troops would not be responsible for maintaining social order and rule of law. They would assist in search and rescue, but the locals had to keep the peace. I believe they have had a change of heart since that time. We just may not be privy to all the ugly details of the negotiations leading up to this compromise.

Federal law restricts how federal troops (not National Guard) are employed within the United States.

Posse Comitatus Act

Section 1385 of Title 18, United States Code (USC), states:

“Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.”

The PCA does not apply to the U.S. Coast Guard in peacetime or to the National Guard in Title 32 or State Active Duty status. The substantive prohibitions of the Posse Comitatus Act (PCA) were extended to all the services with the enactment of Title 10 USC, Section 375. As required by Title 10 USC, Section 375 the secretary of defense issued Department of Defense Directive 5525.5, which precludes members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps from direct participation in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.

The PCA generally prohibits U.S. military personnel from direct participation in law enforcement activities. Some of those law enforcement activities would include interdicting vehicles, vessels, and aircraft; conducting surveillance, searches, pursuit and seizures; or making arrests on behalf of civilian law enforcement authorities. Prohibiting direct military involvement in law enforcement is in keeping with long-standing U.S. law and policy limiting the military’s role in domestic affairs.

http://www.northcom.mil/index.cfm?fusea ... actsheet=5

[SchoolGirlHeart]

It appears to me to be as true here at BN as it is along the Gulf Coast: in a time of stress and disaster, a person's true character shows....

[Sam]

I, too, think that the Feds are a little bumfuzzled on the whole troop deployment thing. On Day 2 a FoxNews crawler said that the Pentagon advised state and local authorities that troops would not be responsible for maintaining social order and rule of law. They would assist in search and rescue, but the locals had to keep the peace. I believe they have had a change of heart since that time. We just may not be privy to all the ugly details of the negotiations leading up to this compromise.

Federal law restricts how federal troops (not National Guard) are employed within the United States.

Posse Comitatus Act

Section 1385 of Title 18, United States Code (USC), states:

“Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.”

The PCA does not apply to the U.S. Coast Guard in peacetime or to the National Guard in Title 32 or State Active Duty status. The substantive prohibitions of the Posse Comitatus Act (PCA) were extended to all the services with the enactment of Title 10 USC, Section 375. As required by Title 10 USC, Section 375 the secretary of defense issued Department of Defense Directive 5525.5, which precludes members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps from direct participation in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.

The PCA generally prohibits U.S. military personnel from direct participation in law enforcement activities. Some of those law enforcement activities would include interdicting vehicles, vessels, and aircraft; conducting surveillance, searches, pursuit and seizures; or making arrests on behalf of civilian law enforcement authorities. Prohibiting direct military involvement in law enforcement is in keeping with long-standing U.S. law and policy limiting the military’s role in domestic affairs.

http://www.northcom.mil/index.cfm?fusea ... actsheet=5

Don't you, call me a p u s s y communist!

In times of national disaster and if marshal law is declared....the world as we know it, "so to speak", no longer exist.

[RinglingRingling]

It appears to me to be as true here at BN as it is along the Gulf Coast: in a time of stress and disaster, a person's true character shows....

:shaking head: "Sadly. It does"

[Ilph]

It appears to me to be as true here at BN as it is along the Gulf Coast: in a time of stress and disaster, a person's true character shows....

:shaking head: "Sadly. It does"

What I see happening down in New Orleans really bothers me and worries me about the human condition. Not only is it horrible to those down there, when another disaster strikes another part of the country, can we expect this behavior to be the norm in natural disasters from now on?

[12vmanRick]

Kill em and let god sort them out

[RinglingRingling]

It appears to me to be as true here at BN as it is along the Gulf Coast: in a time of stress and disaster, a person's true character shows....

:shaking head: "Sadly. It does"

What I see happening down in New Orleans really bothers me and worries me about the human condition. Not only is it horrible to those down there, when another disaster strikes another part of the country, can we expect this behavior to be the norm in natural disasters from now on?

Probably depends on the magnitude of the disaster. and I think I am saddened by the simplistic "screw 'em, they're all scum" mentality of some here.

[Sam]

Shots fired...at least one person injured and there was an explosion....in NO..

I have not seen any real details at this time....

[Sam]

It appears to me to be as true here at BN as it is along the Gulf Coast: in a time of stress and disaster, a person's true character shows....

:shaking head: "Sadly. It does"

What I see happening down in New Orleans really bothers me and worries me about the human condition. Not only is it horrible to those down there, when another disaster strikes another part of the country, can we expect this behavior to be the norm in natural disasters from now on?

Probably depends on the magnitude of the disaster. and I think I am saddened by the simplistic "screw 'em, they're all scum" mentality of some here.

I think most of us are talking about or refering to the violent and dangerous bozo looting, raping shooting at resucers, helicopters, aid workers, ......Some of us do realize that some of those that did not evacuate...are not badguys....

[sy]

Probably depends on the magnitude of the disaster. and I think I am saddened by the simplistic "screw 'em, they're all scum" mentality of some here.

I have no sympathy for those trying to 'take advantage' of a situation like this, or in any why trying to hinder or harm those doing good down there.

Be it a nice or not opinion, someone who takes a pot shot at a rescue copter, or tries to shoot authorized personnel there to keep the peace obviously isn't welcoming help, and therefore, I don't think it should be offered to them.

and in all honesty, any 'band of young men' (as quoted on cnn.com) wandering around beating up and raping people trying to survive should really be shot on sight, no questions asked.

I don't think anyone (maybe I am completely wrong) is saying 'screw 'em' to those trying to make it through a day until help can be provided to them, or those trying to rummage through a store to find water, diapers, and medicine for their children and family.

[OceanCityGirl]

I have no sympathy for those trying to 'take advantage' of a situation like this, or in any why trying to hinder or harm those doing good down there.

Be it a nice or not opinion, someone who takes a pot shot at a rescue copter, or tries to shoot authorized personnel there to keep the peace obviously isn't welcoming help, and therefore, I don't think it should be offered to them.

and in all honesty, any 'band of young men' (as quoted on cnn.com) wandering around beating up and raping people trying to survive should really be shot on sight, no questions asked.

I don't think anyone (maybe I am completely wrong) is saying 'screw 'em' to those trying to make it through a day until help can be provided to them, or those trying to rummage through a store to find water, diapers, and medicine

That's what I'm trying to say. I hate feeling like I"m unsympathetic just because I don't think we should be trying to rescue these trouble makers. And because I hate the nasty stuff going on doesn't mean I have a problem with folks getting whatever they need for their families to survive.

[LIPH]

Compassion is one of the major factors separating us from other animals. I think we're better off with it than without it.

I am compassionate about those that DESERVE it. Those in NO don't. FACT.

NO, that is an OPINION, these things need to be decided on a case by case basis. Has anyone thought about why these people are so driven to desperate measures?

Now, if it is proven that someone fired upon rescue personnel with intent of harm, then let them face the consequences of their actions.

Well why else would the helicopters and rescue personel come under fire and become targets???

Why did FEMA cancel the air ops for aid, rescue, and recovery because of danger to the aid and relief workers? I am sure that you think that it had nothing to do with safety of the crews, workers, or aircraft.

Pardon me if one wants to tolerate rats, roaches, and other vermin inside their house....that is their choice...I don't know of very many people that would eat in restaurants that tolerated such.

It is not society's fault. That is a cop out and more feel good crap. It is not our fault 3 people were murdered last night. It is not societys fault of the rapes that took place last night.
Personal reliability is in there somewhere and yes society does have "SOME" responisbility in it....such as does our society tolerate such conduct and accept it or reject it???
Did everyone just stand by and knowingly allow it to happen??? Would that be all of society or just those nearby???

If one really beleives it is the whole society at fault, then all is chaos and we are doomed. After all no one in California or North Dakota or Florida or New Jerseyor anywhere else could have done a single GD thing to prevent or o protect the victims in NO could they>> Want to blame society for rapes and murders? Pardon me while in our curreent judicial system.... they place an actual person on trial rather than all of society.

We kill sick puppies and kittens to protect the rest of the litter.....and we don't blame the whole species for the illness of the one...perhaps those who want to lay blame on all of our society should and could learn from that and accept he fact that sick minded indiviuals are out there. They will kill and rape as they see fit....you may want to console them and try yor best to save them....let me know what you think when it happens to you or your loved one or a friend's loved one.

Four Play,
I agree I had friends in Charleston during Hugo and in Miami and in La when Andrew came to party....and....
disregarding previous disparaging remarks from others....I will say more than one looter was shot and killed in the after effects of Andrew....something that was not mentioned or covered by the MSM.

Meanwhile people pulled together and everyone shared what they had and people ate very good for a short while to utilize what was in freezers before it spoiled.No one went hungry. For the most part....People pulled together. People found strength and reliability in one another. And none of those prople were raped or murdered or robbed....
*************************************************************
I stand by awaiting a different and better answer/solution to shooting and killing these bozos and scum. I have as of yet to see anyone offer any answer than to blame ourselves. Well if the people were armed and knew how to appropriately use the weapons, then they could have prevented and protected at least some of the people. After allwhat you do to protect your loved one/ wife/girlfriend/ daughter/ child or your friend or team mate???

Are you going to place blame on society or would you shoot/ kill the SOB POS to protect them as best that you can. A staff is nothing more than a stick...it is a weapon that has been around since time began. The human mind is a very formidable weapon as long as a person is capable of and can think and reason.

Many common household items can be easily utilized and made into improvised weapons.
WE HAVE THE RIGHT AND RESPONSIBILITY TO DEFEND AND PROTECT our loved ones and ourselves. WE DO NOT have the Right to lay the blame on or accuse society when those items are ignored and overlooked!

Someone want to blame me for the rapes and murders and aid and relief workers being shot at and what not by the bozos and bad guys, ....guess again.....

You are the only SANE person in this thread besides me.

That's the scariest thing I've seen in a long time.

[RinglingRingling]

Probably depends on the magnitude of the disaster. and I think I am saddened by the simplistic "screw 'em, they're all scum" mentality of some here.

I have no sympathy for those trying to 'take advantage' of a situation like this, or in any why trying to hinder or harm those doing good down there.

Be it a nice or not opinion, someone who takes a pot shot at a rescue copter, or tries to shoot authorized personnel there to keep the peace obviously isn't welcoming help, and therefore, I don't think it should be offered to them.

and in all honesty, any 'band of young men' (as quoted on cnn.com) wandering around beating up and raping people trying to survive should really be shot on sight, no questions asked.

I don't think anyone (maybe I am completely wrong) is saying 'screw 'em' to those trying to make it through a day until help can be provided to them, or those trying to rummage through a store to find water, diapers, and medicine for their children and family.

I am not saying that I have any sympathy for those who are shooting at rescue helicopters, or committing acts of rape, or arson. Murder, in self-defense, ok. Theft, for survival purposes (canned food, bottled water, maybe camping supplies, I can see that from a "doing it to stay alive" point of view).

However, there are some folks who seem to think that being poor is a sign of moral inferiority, and if the poor got stuck in the hell that New Orleans has become because they had no way out, screw 'em.

Those are the people here that I am really wondering if they are Parrotheads, or just yellow-album wannabees.

[LIPH]

It appears to me to be as true here at BN as it is along the Gulf Coast: in a time of stress and disaster, a person's true character shows....

THE most intelligent post in this thread.

[OceanCityGirl]

However, there are some folks who seem to think that being poor is a sign of moral inferiority, and if the poor got stuck in the hell that New Orleans has become because they had no way out, screw 'em

That I don't understand. I assume some people have never gone from money to nothing. I have. It's very easy to happen. In our country most people are only a month or two from homelessness.

[UAHparrothead]

There are two things going on there. One you have people looting pawn shops and gun stores in order to arm themselves. Then these armed mobs are going around to nursing homes and hospitals on a rampage. On the other hand you have people literally starving and dehydrating, people are dying, some haven't had water in 3 days, now imagine going without something to drink for 3 days. I can't blame those who are going out and trying to keep there families alive, because FEMA has dropped the ball on this one. Stealing is wrong but I would rather be wrong than to let my child, wife, mother, starve to death.

[ParrotheadGator]

Murder, in self-defense, ok.

There's no such thing as murder in self defense. If it's self defense, it's not murder.