Rapper Kayne West blasts Bush during NBC relief concert.

[Brown Eyed Girl]

I agree with everyone being prepared for any kind of potential situation where you may be stuck in your home without power...I have plenty of food and water and TP on hand just for that reason.

But what do you do when your house is flooded up to the rooftops and you can't grab or carrry your supply box up to the attic/roof?

What if you had to walk a mile or many miles to the nearest evac center? Don't the guidelines call for 3 gallons of water per person per day? Please correct me if I'm wrong on that, btw. How on earth can anyone carry 9-12 gallons of water with them, along with food and whatever other necessities (meds, survival kits, etc). I am a reasonably strong person and I couldn't do that, even before the bum leg. Then what do you do?

Maybe some of these people were prepared to shelter in place...but the flooding due to the levee breaks didn't allow them to access their supplies in a timely manner. That is something we will probably never know. It is obvious to all of us that there is plenty of blame to go around. There is no question that the mandatory evacs should have gone into place sooner and that they should have been more forceful. But should the population who had no cars or were physically impaired be blamed for or suffer for what the mayor, Governor etc should have done? And that seems to be what is happening, at least to me.

We need to find a way to protect ourselves from incompetent elected officials. If any good is to come out of Katrina, maybe it will be that we take a good hard look at what went wrong so that it never happens again. We can start cornering those folks in charge and demanding answers before such a situation ever happens again. We can grill potential candidates on their knowledge of just what they are supposed to do in event of a disaster. We might think that just one person asking those questions won't make a difference, but maybe it will. What do we have to lose?

[Tony5150RN]

Here's a publication that every home should have:



http://www.fema.gov/areyouready/

Contact the FEMA publications warehouse at 1.800.480.2520. "Ask for Are You Ready? An In-depth Guide to Citizen Preparedness" Publication # IS-22

[Key Lime Lee]

Here's a publication that every home should have:



http://www.fema.gov/areyouready/

Contact the FEMA publications warehouse at 1.800.480.2520. "Ask for Are You Ready? An In-depth Guide to Citizen Preparedness" Publication # IS-22

How much duct tape does it suggest I buy?

[Sam]

Okies Where you? Perhaps in your comfy abode? It is ok for you to be comfy while slamming someone else? DO you really expect the POTUS to be at ground zero?

...What part of THE GOVERNOR AND THE MAYOR KNEW IN ADVANCE AND DID NOT TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION.... AND THE PEOPLE DID NOT TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION !!! Do you fail to understand???

No I would not say that anyone deserved such devastation and loss and suffering!!!!

I don't know Sam,
It sure sounds to me like you feel these people had it coming by failing to heed warnings

I will say this, while you want to compare your situation living in an earthquake area...you really don't have any idea when an earthquake is going to happen do you??

Then, I guess I deserve whatever happens, whenever it happens, y'know,
since I've chosen to remain living here, right?

Care to say the same thing about these people, the Mayors, and the Governor??? AT LEAST THREE DAYS OR MORE went before Katrina hit.... Care to argue with that?
Do you and or anyone else that goes through an earthquake deserve it?

Care to deny if the people had followed the guidelines they would NOT have been thirsty or hungry for so many days?

Again with the blaming of the people. Have you ever been to a city?

THE POINT I AM MAKING ONCE AGAIN.....is people need to be more self reliant and self sustaining!!!

The point I am making again, is yours is an ideal, but unrealistic one.
You just can't hold hold a society to YOUR ideal of what YOU THINK it should be.
This is PRECISELY the kind of situation, similar to 9/11, that demanded immediate Federal aid. That is all I am saying. No racist angles or anything else.

If you want to continue to perpetuate and believe that myth go for it. Nothing anyone can do will ever change your mind I am sure.
Just as YOU made your choice and decision.... they made theirs. They, just as you, have to suffer the consequences or recieve the rewards of those or any decisions they make or made..
THAT DOES NOT MEAN that I THINK ANYONE WHO SUFFERS HARM OR INJURY OR GREAT FORTUNE DESERVES IT to happen to them.

You nor anyone else can predict an earthquake with any certainty....can you??? Care to say these people had no clue or idea that Katrina was coming to party? Did they have the option tand knowledge to leave??? Were they told to leave???

They made THE DECISION TO STAY..... they now pay the price....Again that does not mean they deserve to be in such a situation.....It means they have to deal with it though and stay strong and work for an uncertain future.

You know the risks and accepted them of where you choose to live. You made the decision apparently of your own free will for whatever reason. Do you deserve to suffer a major earthquake? Do you realize one can happen at any given time??? Do your neighbors DESERVE to suffer a castastrophic earthquake??

What would you say about someone that moves into a high crime area? Do they deserve to be beaten, raped,robbed, or violated? You may think so but I don't. The people did nothing wrong, but moved to a violent area.

IF a very atttractive woman wears provacative clothing and alluring perfume......does she deserve to be raped???

If there was a way to reliably predict earthquakes of any magnitude and you had 3 or more days notice....what would you do???

Let me know....

Are my ideas/ideals unrealistic?

Tell me if the people had followed the guidelines....how many of them would have been without for so long???

How many lives could have been saved??? I have no clue or idea but I will lay odds more than one would have been!

Blaming the people for the hurricane and their losses and pain and other suffering??? No not at all!!!
Blaming the people for not habving personal responsibility....YES

Have I ever been to a city........................Good question what do you consider a city?
Probably not by your definition....
I have been to New Orleans, Biloxi, Shreveport,Slidell, Baton Rouge, Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, Miami , Tucson, Phoenix,Tampa Tallahassee, Menphis, Chicago, Las Vegas, Reno, Jacksonville, San Antonio, El Paso, the Twin Citiies, Orlando, Philly, Pittsburg, Trenton, Baltimore, Wilmington, and elsewhere, for starters... and at least one or two other places some even outside this country....but...I dunno if you would consider any of them cities.
So I guess to answer your question.... no I don't guess I have ever been to a city. Please feel free to tell me about them and what they are. I really want to know.

Let me know when you care to talk about realism and aren't so busy bashing President Bush, FEMA, the federal goverment, etc.

[jonesbeach10]

Have I ever been to a city........................Good question what do you consider a city?
Probably not by your definition....
I have been to New Orleans, Biloxi, Shreveport,Slidell, Baton Rouge, Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, Miami , Tucson, Phoenix,Tampa Tallahassee, Menphis, Chicago, Las Vegas, Reno, Jacksonville, San Antonio, El Paso, the Twin Citiies, Orlando, Philly, Pittsburg, Trenton, Baltimore, Wilmington, and elsewhere, for starters... and at least one or two other places some even outside this country....but...I dunno if you would consider any of them cities.
So I guess to answer your question.... no I don't guess I have ever been to a city. Please feel free to tell me about them and what they are. I really want to know.

I've been everywhere man, I've been everywhere.

Sorry, couldn't resist

[Ilph]

I love how a disaster of this magnitude can bring us all together.

so you agree that blowjobs are better?

If you're being sarcastic, blowjobs are never bad

If you're being serious, I'm not going to get involved in this argument. I just find it sad that in such a time of Americans depending on each other, so many of us (myself included) can spend our time arguing over who's to blame and bitching about gas prices.

actually I wasn't being sarcastic cause I was thinking about Mal when I posted it

I'm not ignoring your post, I just really don't have any clue what it means. I'm not up to date on everything that goes on around here sometimes.

[Ilph]

In case anyone missed it....

http://gorillamask.net/foamykatrina.shtml

LMAO! You're gonna get me in trouble!!

I wish I could take credit for that.

[Lightning Bolt]

I don't know Sam,
It sure sounds to me like you feel these people had it coming by failing to heed warnings

I will say this, while you want to compare your situation living in an earthquake area...you really don't have any idea when an earthquake is going to happen do you??

Then, I guess I deserve whatever happens, whenever it happens, y'know,
since I've chosen to remain living here, right?

Care to say the same thing about these people, the Mayors, and the Governor??? AT LEAST THREE DAYS OR MORE went before Katrina hit.... Care to argue with that?
Do you and or anyone else that goes through an earthquake deserve it?

Care to deny if the people had followed the guidelines they would NOT have been thirsty or hungry for so many days?

Again with the blaming of the people. Have you ever been to a city?

THE POINT I AM MAKING ONCE AGAIN.....is people need to be more self reliant and self sustaining!!!

The point I am making again, is yours is an ideal, but unrealistic one.
You just can't hold hold a society to YOUR ideal of what YOU THINK it should be.
This is PRECISELY the kind of situation, similar to 9/11, that demanded immediate Federal aid. That is all I am saying. No racist angles or anything else.

They made THE DECISION TO STAY..... they now pay the price....Again that does not mean they deserve to be in such a situation.....It means they have to deal with it though and stay strong and work for an uncertain future.
...and, foolish as it was to remain in NO, these people deserved a better response.
That is the subject of this thread, isn't it really?

If there was a way to reliably predict earthquakes of any magnitude and you had 3 or more days notice....what would you do???
If that was possible, I would leave.

Are my ideas/ideals unrealistic?
I stated earlier, I believe they are.
But, only because of the tone you've taken toward those survivors. You may not WANT to openly admit it, but it is clear you're harboring resentment to those who remained. You have chosen to remain ignorant to the complexities of a mass evacuation. You or me would have been outta there, but there seems to NO EMPATHY towards those who could not. That's where we're differing. Whatever the reason, however foolish or helpless, these people deserved a little better.

Tell me if the people had followed the guidelines....how many of them would have been without for so long???
Impossible to say, isn't it? Did you see how high that flooding was? If you stayed along the Miss. coast, it was clear, you'd be gone.

Blaming the people for the hurricane and their losses and pain and other suffering??? No not at all!!!
Blaming the people for not habving personal responsibility....YES
But that doesn't change the fact that you still have to help all of them quickly!

Have I ever been to a city?
What I really meant was: Have you ever lived in a big city?
Because, if you have, you know what a bunch of mixed nuts it really is. My parents live in the country, and most all that of their "neighbors" share a kinship, that while admirable, is just not the same as life in a city. I've gathered from your postings, that you're not in the city, and I do understand
where you're coming from. I just don't happen to agree here!

Let me know when you care to talk about realism and aren't so busy bashing President Bush, FEMA, the federal goverment, etc.
I'm an equal-opportunity basher in my spare time
Whoever happens to be in the line of fire!

[Rodney King]

I'm sure glad we don't have hurricanes in California.

[Dezdmona]

In addition, it was President Bush who had to call the LA governor to tell her to activate the LA National Guard!

Can this be documented? Where did you hear this? This is the first time I've heard this. (Though it doesn't suprise me.)

[Tony5150RN]

In addition, it was President Bush who had to call the LA governor to tell her to activate the LA National Guard!

Can this be documented? Where did you hear this? This is the first time I've heard this. (Though it doesn't suprise me.)

I heard it on Sean Hannity's radio program today but can't seem to find a link with that exact quote. Here is some food for thought though:


http://www.chronwatch.com/content/conte ... catcode=13

http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/ ... 05evac.htm

[ejr]

I have tried to stay away from posting here, and have been distracted by the two concerts at Wrigley Field (which did provide a nice break from the sadness that is so overwhelming) but............

There is more than enough blame to go around at the local, the state and the federal level. The bungling has been hard to fathom at times, and is evidence to me of just how unprepared we are for a major attack on this country.

When people are told, by authorities (local, I believe) that they should go to the convention center and on Thursday the head of FEMA says that he had just learned this news that day---something is wrong.

When the buses load to move people from the Superdome to the Astrodome, many of them loaded with women and children first. Then the Fire Chief in Houston declared the Astrodome full and the men of the families were sent elsewhere----something is wrong.

When a woman calls into CNN early in the week suggesting using a cruse ship as temporary housing and it takes until Friday for the government to do this---something is wrong.

When some trucks come into New Orleans mid-week and are only partially full, and do not contain provisions for those stranded in town---something is wrong.

And when roughly 1/3 of the police force of New Orleans fails to show up for work leaving the rest to protect a city in desperate times---something is wrong.

Most of us are fortunate enough to be able to get out if we need to. While some people were indeed stupid by choosing to stay even though they have the ability to leave, most of those left behind did not have the means. A large part of the population does not own cars. It was the end of the month, and for those living on tight budgets (partiularly the poor and the elderly) there was no money left to be able to make the arrangements to get out of town.

I don't think it was blatant, deliberate racism, but I do think that far too often we choose not to see what we do not want to deal with, and that is largely what happened. they are largely invisible to most of us as we go about our daily lives, and they were largely invisible as this disaster struck.

In any event, it is unbelievably sad to see, and to see it happening in the United States.

[Sam]

I don't know Sam,
It sure sounds to me like you feel these people had it coming by failing to heed warnings

I will say this, while you want to compare your situation living in an earthquake area...you really don't have any idea when an earthquake is going to happen do you??

Then, I guess I deserve whatever happens, whenever it happens, y'know,
since I've chosen to remain living here, right?

Care to say the same thing about these people, the Mayors, and the Governor??? AT LEAST THREE DAYS OR MORE went before Katrina hit.... Care to argue with that?
Do you and or anyone else that goes through an earthquake deserve it?

Care to deny if the people had followed the guidelines they would NOT have been thirsty or hungry for so many days?

Again with the blaming of the people. Have you ever been to a city?

THE POINT I AM MAKING ONCE AGAIN.....is people need to be more self reliant and self sustaining!!!

The point I am making again, is yours is an ideal, but unrealistic one.
You just can't hold hold a society to YOUR ideal of what YOU THINK it should be.
This is PRECISELY the kind of situation, similar to 9/11, that demanded immediate Federal aid. That is all I am saying. No racist angles or anything else.

They made THE DECISION TO STAY..... they now pay the price....Again that does not mean they deserve to be in such a situation.....It means they have to deal with it though and stay strong and work for an uncertain future.
...and, foolish as it was to remain in NO, these people deserved a better response.
That is the subject of this thread, isn't it really?

If there was a way to reliably predict earthquakes of any magnitude and you had 3 or more days notice....what would you do???
If that was possible, I would leave.

Are my ideas/ideals unrealistic?
I stated earlier, I believe they are.
But, only because of the tone you've taken toward those survivors. You may not WANT to openly admit it, but it is clear you're harboring resentment to those who remained. You have chosen to remain ignorant to the complexities of a mass evacuation. You or me would have been outta there, but there seems to NO EMPATHY towards those who could not. That's where we're differing. Whatever the reason, however foolish or helpless, these people deserved a little better.

Tell me if the people had followed the guidelines....how many of them would have been without for so long???
Impossible to say, isn't it? Did you see how high that flooding was? If you stayed along the Miss. coast, it was clear, you'd be gone.

Blaming the people for the hurricane and their losses and pain and other suffering??? No not at all!!!
Blaming the people for not habving personal responsibility....YES
But that doesn't change the fact that you still have to help all of them quickly!

Have I ever been to a city?
What I really meant was: Have you ever lived in a big city?
Because, if you have, you know what a bunch of mixed nuts it really is. My parents live in the country, and most all that of their "neighbors" share a kinship, that while admirable, is just not the same as life in a city. I've gathered from your postings, that you're not in the city, and I do understand
where you're coming from. I just don't happen to agree here!

Let me know when you care to talk about realism and aren't so busy bashing President Bush, FEMA, the federal goverment, etc.
I'm an equal-opportunity basher in my spare time
Whoever happens to be in the line of fire!

Ok you said you would leave if you knew there was an earthquake coming with 3 or more or so days notice....
Would YOU say that everyone that was left behind DESERVED what hapened to them?

I am not saying the people/survivors DESERVED anything to happen to them. I AM SAYING that IF they had bothered to prepare properly they would not have suffered so long. Is that hard to understand?

They had at least 3 days notice. They could have easily filled bottles of water....for example... while the people that chose to remain for whatever reason did so....they made the decision... now they must deal with it.

Did they DESERVE it to happen anymore than you or any left behind you, going through a catastrophic earthquake???

I have answered that at least once but I don't think you really have.


I HAVE REPEATEDLY SAID that the people needed to be more self reliant and follow the guidelines and needed to be aware that the goverment may take several days to get aid and relief into the affected areas.

AGAIN THE PEOPLE KNEW!!! Everyone around the world with cable weather and news access KNEW! Anyone that spent any time on the internet surfing news and weather sites KNEW!

The people that choose to stay for whatever reason and those that evacc'ed did not DESERVE what happened. But IT DID HAPPEN! Some people made bad choices and ignored repeated warnings and ignored following guidelines and recommendations.

You tell me! Do you think people DESERVE what happens to them? Not just survivors, I mean everyone! DO people always get what they deserve?
How about Rape victims? Did they deserve it? Abused childrens and adults? Did they deserve it? I can on and on and on, but why bother? I will lay odds there are more victims of rape every year, and not always reported, than were killed in Katrina.
Did the victims deserve to be raped? Could all or any of them taken precautions and prevented the rape? What could they do? THAT DOES NOT MEAN THEY DESERVED IT.
BUT COULD THEY HAVE TAKEN PRECAUTIONS? Taking precautions is NOT A GUARANTEE SOMETHING WILL NOT HAPPEN..it is lessening the odds of it happening....You buy insurance don't you...does that mean you DESERVE something bad to happen or you expect something bad to happen, so you can collect???
As for actually living in cities at one time yes I did.
Do I have any idea what is involved with evacuating a city? YES I actually do... I have had to evac before and more than once. Have you ever been through it?

I have had to work through an evac situation while I was told at the same time to evac.I have been on revovery teams as well. I have seen people learn the hard way. There is much more I could say, but I won't say for various reasons. You may take any of this and all of this or none of this as you choose.


Yes I do live in the boonies.I admit it. There are or were many people that lived in the bayous and other areas that were affected and felt the wrath of Katrina. What is your point ? DO you think I don't get the news?
Do you think I have no idea of the comprehension of evacuating a city???
It does not seem that the Mayor of New Orleans did either..... look at the school buses just sitting there.... Look at the 18(?) year old kid that liberated a bus and saved ALOT of people...(Someone estimated that those buses could have evacuated around 12,000 people or more in 15 hours!)
Do you think it is easier to evac from the boonies??? Tell me who do they help first? The people in the city or the people in the boonies?
Tell me about evaccing! Tell me about roads being clogged or closed. Tell me about gas stations and places being closed because everyone evaccuated. Tell me about getting 20 miles in 6 hours! Tell me about not being able to get back to your home. I am sure there is ALOT you can tell me about as there is ALOT me and some friends could tell you about.

I myself, and many friends have actually needed the ARC and other organizations at one point or another. I have seen and experienced damage up close and personal on both sides of the fence.

HOWEVER none of us did not suffer as badly as we could have, do to the simple fact we followed the basic guidelines and most of us were able to exceed them and we pulled together and worked together and supported each other.

Did any of us DESERVE the situation? Do the people all over the Gulf Coast DESERVE the situation? DOES/ ANYONE DESERVE such a situation???
But THEY DO HAVE TO LIVE AND DEAL WITH IT!!! THey are going to ACTUALLY HAVE TO FACE AND COPE AND HANDLE AND DEAL WITH THIS SITUATION FRO A VERY LONG TIME!

[ph4ever]

I have tried to stay away from posting here, and have been distracted by the two concerts at Wrigley Field (which did provide a nice break from the sadness that is so overwhelming) but............

There is more than enough blame to go around at the local, the state and the federal level. The bungling has been hard to fathom at times, and is evidence to me of just how unprepared we are for a major attack on this country.

When people are told, by authorities (local, I believe) that they should go to the convention center and on Thursday the head of FEMA says that he had just learned this news that day---something is wrong.

When the buses load to move people from the Superdome to the Astrodome, many of them loaded with women and children first. Then the Fire Chief in Houston declared the Astrodome full and the men of the families were sent elsewhere----something is wrong.

When a woman calls into CNN early in the week suggesting using a cruse ship as temporary housing and it takes until Friday for the government to do this---something is wrong.

When some trucks come into New Orleans mid-week and are only partially full, and do not contain provisions for those stranded in town---something is wrong.

And when roughly 1/3 of the police force of New Orleans fails to show up for work leaving the rest to protect a city in desperate times---something is wrong.

Most of us are fortunate enough to be able to get out if we need to. While some people were indeed stupid by choosing to stay even though they have the ability to leave, most of those left behind did not have the means. A large part of the population does not own cars. It was the end of the month, and for those living on tight budgets (partiularly the poor and the elderly) there was no money left to be able to make the arrangements to get out of town.

I don't think it was blatant, deliberate racism, but I do think that far too often we choose not to see what we do not want to deal with, and that is largely what happened. they are largely invisible to most of us as we go about our daily lives, and they were largely invisible as this disaster struck.

In any event, it is unbelievably sad to see, and to see it happening in the United States.

VERY WELL SAID!!

[Tony5150RN]

In case anyone missed it....

http://gorillamask.net/foamykatrina.shtml

LMAO! You're gonna get me in trouble!!

I wish I could take credit for that.

You get credit for reposting it as a tension breaker!!!! Long live Foamy!!

[Lightning Bolt]

In addition, it was President Bush who had to call the LA governor to tell her to activate the LA National Guard!

Can this be documented? Where did you hear this? This is the first time I've heard this. (Though it doesn't suprise me.)

I heard it on Sean Hannity's radio program today but can't seem to find a link with that exact quote. Here is some food for thought though:


http://www.chronwatch.com/content/conte ... catcode=13

http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/ ... 05evac.htm

Sean Hannity?! please...

and the websites are propaganda mills no better than MoveOn.org.
Karl Rove will stop at nothing to see that ENTIRE blame rests with the state.

[RinglingRingling]

Too old and cantankerous? I suppose you will compare rap with people of another generation and comments about "Rock-N-Roll"???

Let me know where that generation had heard music about promoting the killing of policemen or about women being bitches and ho's.

You know, Lee I suppose you are right ...it is gawd awfully silly for anyone to think (C)rap does not involve a talented or artistic or music and that any person to get up and promote such with language and violence and death

You're being silly Sam. Just because you can't relate to or understand it doesn't mean it's not made by talented people. I don't often listen to it either, but I recognize talent and musical innovation.

You view a lot of the world through a very narrow prism. What rap music do you base your generalizations about the genre on? Which artists have you listened to?

I'll send you some good rap music for christmas there buddy... we'll have you hip-hopping for the holidays!

Now that... that, I would pay money for pictures of the event. Maybe get him into some low-rider shorts, a FUBU oversized jersey, put his NRA ROCKS cap on sideways, and make sure he has some fly retro Air Jordans...

[Ilph]

In case anyone missed it....

http://gorillamask.net/foamykatrina.shtml

LMAO! You're gonna get me in trouble!!

I wish I could take credit for that.

You get credit for reposting it as a tension breaker!!!! Long live Foamy!!

Thanks. This place could use plenty of tension breakers lately.

[phjrsaunt]

I submit a motion that we limit the length of posts

[RAGTOP]

We can argue all day about evacuation procedures prior to the storm however there is no excuse for these people that remain in the city now and still refuse to leave. Transportation is being offered to them... no excuses. They are basically pleading with this people to leave so that they can continue the relief effort. At this point they are only hindering progress