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Maybe it didn't have anything to do with race.

Maybe it was just lack of preparation. Maybe it was ineptitude. Maybe it was shortage of manpower. Possibly all of the above? Either way, it is certainly not a fact that this was racial.

Interesting editorial from a New Orleans newspaper. Correct me if I'm misreading this but it seems that the people of NO are ashamed that this has become a race issue.

http://www.bayoubuzz.com/articles.aspx?aid=4902

The truth in stark black and white terms is that New Orleans has been a city of valor. The color line was broken years ago. Blacks and whites lived, worked and even loved together—and still do. Whites and blacks have integrated in social circles. The Great Society, with all its warts, was beginning to take shape in this great city—in many ways more so than it has in so many other metropolitans.

I think we could all learn a lot from the people of NO.

Key Lime Lee wrote:

RAGTOP wrote:

Key Lime Lee wrote:

RAGTOP wrote:can someone post some factual information stating that these people were ignored for a couple of days because of their race... please no opinions just facts. I'm not being a smart ass I'm just curious where all this is coming from, so I'm assuming someone must have some sort of factual information.

Watch any of the news feeds of cnn, msnbc, fox news et al.

be more specific . They have reported that they believe the slow response could be attributable to a racial situation. Those aren't facts.

Give me a break. Even the President acknowledged that the response was not acceptable.

If you haven't done the basic research to understand the situation down there than any further discussion is really pointless.

The President did say the response what not acceptable but I must have missed where he said it was because they were black. Isn't that what we are talking about?

RAGTOP wrote:

Key Lime Lee wrote:

RAGTOP wrote:

Key Lime Lee wrote:

RAGTOP wrote:can someone post some factual information stating that these people were ignored for a couple of days because of their race... please no opinions just facts. I'm not being a smart ass I'm just curious where all this is coming from, so I'm assuming someone must have some sort of factual information.

Watch any of the news feeds of cnn, msnbc, fox news et al.

be more specific . They have reported that they believe the slow response could be attributable to a racial situation. Those aren't facts.

Give me a break. Even the President acknowledged that the response was not acceptable.

If you haven't done the basic research to understand the situation down there than any further discussion is really pointless.

The President did say the response what not acceptable but I must have missed where he said it was because they were black. Isn't that what we are talking about?

Haha. No. I thought you were claiming that the people weren't ignored.

I would doubt it's strictly because they're black, but it does give me pause to wonder if poor, black people have the same level of prioritiziation has rich, white people.

Seems that's what Kanye was suggesting.

Key Lime Lee wrote:

RAGTOP wrote:

Key Lime Lee wrote:

RAGTOP wrote:

Key Lime Lee wrote:

RAGTOP wrote:can someone post some factual information stating that these people were ignored for a couple of days because of their race... please no opinions just facts. I'm not being a smart ass I'm just curious where all this is coming from, so I'm assuming someone must have some sort of factual information.

Watch any of the news feeds of cnn, msnbc, fox news et al.

be more specific . They have reported that they believe the slow response could be attributable to a racial situation. Those aren't facts.

Give me a break. Even the President acknowledged that the response was not acceptable.

If you haven't done the basic research to understand the situation down there than any further discussion is really pointless.

The President did say the response what not acceptable but I must have missed where he said it was because they were black. Isn't that what we are talking about?

Haha. No. I thought you were claiming that the people weren't ignored.

I would doubt it's strictly because they're black, but it does give me pause to wonder if poor, black people have the same level of prioritiziation has rich, white people.

Seems that's what Kanye was suggesting.

I never once said that or gave that impression. The facts are it did take them days to get the relief effort underway (thanks I have done my research), however I was asking for facts that the reason behind this was because they were poor or black. I have yet to see any concrete evidence of this. I have seen plenty of concrete evidence of the contrary. Assuming Bush and others didn't want to immediatley help because of their race or economic status without any facts to me is the definition of a "stupid American".

Tony5150RN wrote:Interesting editorial from a New Orleans newspaper. Correct me if I'm misreading this but it seems that the people of NO are ashamed that this has become a race issue.

http://www.bayoubuzz.com/articles.aspx?aid=4902

The truth in stark black and white terms is that New Orleans has been a city of valor. The color line was broken years ago. Blacks and whites lived, worked and even loved together—and still do. Whites and blacks have integrated in social circles. The Great Society, with all its warts, was beginning to take shape in this great city—in many ways more so than it has in so many other metropolitans.

I think we could all learn a lot from the people of NO.

Very interesting article. NO has always been a city of varied cultures and colors. It's the people on the "outside" that don't get it.

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I found the Emergency Evacuation Plan that I doubt the Mayor of NO read (since it appears he didn't follow what it says to do)

http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EO ... ment1a.pdf

Picture of unused school busses:

RAGTOP wrote:I never once said that or gave that impression.

You most certainly did... when I misread your post.

Key Lime Lee wrote:

RAGTOP wrote:I never once said that or gave that impression.

You most certainly did... when I misread your post.

A large percentage of NO is black...don't have the exact numbers but that ain't rocket science. 30% of that population is below poverty level, and many were without transportation. How come the tourists, who were most likely middle class on up and not black and also without transportation were evacuated first?

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:How come the tourists, who were most likely middle class on up and not black and also without transportation were evacuated first?

Because tourists have no vaild reason to remain. They have no property or belongings to protect in the city.

... and because they paid for their own transportation.

500 hotel guests who paid $22,500 for 10 buses to rescue them from the city. However, the buses were commandeered by police just minutes from the hotel and were redirected to help to evacuate people waiting at the Superdome.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... enDocument

What should we think about an elected official who has ordered that water is not to be distributed to those remaining in New Orleans?

Mayor Ray Nagin said that authorities were going to try to persuade people to leave. Officers will no longer be handing out water to people who will not evacuate, the mayor said.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/H/ ... TE=DEFAULT

Dezdemona wrote:1). You have a person who has absolutely no experience in running Emergency Management in charge of FEMA (which is no excuse - and he will pay with his job.)

Hmmm, I disagree, I think that Michael Brown has plenty of experience:

http://www.fema.gov/about/bios/brown.shtm

From personal experience, I can tell you that he has done some great things for the Disaster Teams since he has been in charge. New equipment, more training, and trucks to haul our gear when we used to have to rent them just to mention a few.

Elrod wrote:

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:How come the tourists, who were most likely middle class on up and not black and also without transportation were evacuated first?

Because tourists have no vaild reason to remain. They have no property or belongings to protect in the city.

... and because they paid for their own transportation.

500 hotel guests who paid $22,500 for 10 buses to rescue them from the city. However, the buses were commandeered by police just minutes from the hotel and were redirected to help to evacuate people waiting at the Superdome.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... enDocument

Thanks E...and I figured as much...but efforts were made to evacuate them long before the rest of the city...it seems to me that if you're so worried about getting the tourists out you should be equally or more worried about your citizens. The majority of tourists were told to leave long before Katrina made landfall. I'm just trying to sort this all out in my head...but I guess the reality is that there are no easy answers. It's easy for us to spot the problems from the outside looking in...but who's to say that the majority of the members of this board would have fared any better given the same set of circumstances? Hopefully we'll never have to find out.

Tony5150RN wrote:

Dezdemona wrote:1). You have a person who has absolutely no experience in running Emergency Management in charge of FEMA (which is no excuse - and he will pay with his job.)

Hmmm, I disagree, I think that Michael Brown has plenty of experience:

http://www.fema.gov/about/bios/brown.shtm

From personal experience, I can tell you that he has done some great things for the Disaster Teams since he has been in charge. New equipment, more training, and trucks to haul our gear when we used to have to rent them just to mention a few.

Thanks for the official FEMA bio. It is good that he has made improvements for FEMA in equipment and training. However, the organization of the relief efforts for Katrina have been dismal. I do believe he as well as top members of FEMA may loose their jobs. I heard on FOX News a little earlier that their heads had already been called for. No doubt heads will roll at some point.

A little research has gleened the following information about the FEMA chief:

Aside from the pretty statements that are noted on the FEMA website, Brown's actual resume does not include much qualified experience.

The only experience he had prior to becoming the director of FEMA in emergency operations was for a small county in Mississippi. The more recent positions he has held (just prior to becoming the director of FEMA) was managing an Arabian horse association. He was supposed to ensure that horse-show judges followed the rules and to investigate allegations against those suspected of cheating. He was forced to resign from that position, eventually ending up with being director of FEMA because he knew the current general counsel of the Bush administration. This is something that the FEMA "resume" does not say anything about, yet it is starting to surface.

Both the liberal and conservative media are beginning to report this. Sorry, but Brown is in over his head on this one (pun intended). However, like I said, despite that fact, the time it took to respond was less than several of the other major disasters the United States and the world has responded too, especially considering the fact it was on the order of the Asian tsunami.

I sure like the Lt. General Honore that is in charge down there. He gets right to the point!

Here's a link for those of you who question what is being done:

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/e ... l_0712.xml

The wind in a hurricane has nothing to do with the flooding....its the storm serge that gets ya! You can have a Cat 5 storm with very little amounts of rain or a Cat 1 that floods everything...

longlinergirl wrote:The wind in a hurricane has nothing to do with the flooding....its the storm serge that gets ya! You can have a Cat 5 storm with very little amounts of rain or a Cat 1 that floods everything...

That can be very true. And the worst storm surge is generally on the "right" side of the storm, which as we know was on the Mississippi, Alabama side of this storm and did devastating damage, and was between 15-20+ feet. What flooded New Orleans was the failure of the levee's, not the Storm Surge of the Hurricane.

Dezdemona wrote:

longlinergirl wrote:The wind in a hurricane has nothing to do with the flooding....its the storm serge that gets ya! You can have a Cat 5 storm with very little amounts of rain or a Cat 1 that floods everything...

That can be very true. And the worst storm surge is generally on the "right" side of the storm, which as we know was on the Mississippi, Alabama side of this storm and did devastating damage, and was between 15-20+ feet. What flooded New Orleans was the failure of the levee's, not the Storm Surge of the Hurricane.

I'm sure the serge didn't help though

For this discussion, it does not matter what FEMA or state govt. is now doing.
The questions arise from what was happening one week ago.

From this week's Newsweek -

"A few rescuers were ready, but precious few. On Monday morning, as the storm slammed into the Gulf Coast, Col. Tim Tarchick of the 920th Rescue Wing, Air Force Reserve Command, got on the phone to call every agency he could think of to ask permission to take his three rescue helicopters into the disaster zone as soon as the storm abated. The response was noncommittal. FEMA, the federal agency that is supposed to handle disasters, told Tarchick that it wasn't authorized to task military units. That had to come from the Defense Department. Tarchick wasn't able to cut through the red tape until 4 p.m. Tuesday—more than 24 hours after the storm had passed. His crews plucked hundreds of people off rooftops, but when they delivered them to an assigned landing zone, there was "total chaos. No food, no water, no bathrooms, no nothing." There was "no structure, no organization, no command center," Tarchick told NEWSWEEK."

There will be plenty of blame to share about various aspects of preparedness and reaction, but who is ultimately in command of leadership?

Tony5150RN wrote:Here's a link for those of you who question what is being done:

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/e ... l_0712.xml

hmmmm
impressive site... impressive numbers
but not one mention of WHEN any of this relief ARRIVED.

Sorry, I DO understand your reasoning of the your argument towards the inevitable hardships,
but you aren't going to convince me that any more than the pedestrian effort of THIS disaster's relief plan was timely or adequate.
...and there appears to be many more (than just rap stars) who agree...