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Was 113-point game bad sportsmanship?

Posted: February 2, 2006 5:27 pm
by captainjoe
Was 113-point game bad sportsmanship?
'It was like picking on a handicapped person,' coach says of Prince's barrage

NEW YORK - Never heard of Epiphanny Prince? That’s about to change.

On Wednesday, the prep star scored 113 points in a game, breaking the national girls’ record of 105 by Hall of Famer Cheryl Miller and stirring debate about whether it was poor sportsmanship or good shooting.

Prince did it for Murry Bergtraum High School in a 137-32 romp over Brandeis High School. Her team is ranked No. 2 in the nation by USA Today, and the 5-foot-9 senior guard — headed to Rutgers next season — is among the best players in the country.

In the world of girls’ high school ball, routs are sometimes inevitable. There are wide gaps in talent levels, and a team can’t stall with a 30-second shot clock.

I know it first-hand — when I’m not working for The Associated Press, I coach a high school girls’ varsity team in New York City. Though my team plays in a different league than Murry Bergtraum, on Wednesday we faced a team that lost to those Lady Blazers by almost 50 points last week.

So Prince’s performance raises the question: Should she have been given the chance to break the record? Brandeis coach Vera Springer didn’t think so.

Bergtraum led 44-6 after the first quarter and 74-11 at halftime.

“It’s nothing against Epiphanny,” Springer told The New York Post. “I have great admiration for her. This was an adult decision. Why would you do this against a team like ours?”

Springer said her team, which has won only four league games this season and lost to Murry Bergtraum by 93 points earlier this season, stopped playing defense in the second half.

“She didn’t earn this,” Springer told the Post. “It was like picking on a handicapped person.”

Miller set the record for Riverside Poly in California against Riverside Norte Vista in 1982 and still didn’t play the entire game.

”My coach, Floyd Evans, took the same heat when he left me in. I could have played another two or three minutes,” Miller said. “That’s what this game’s all about, special moments in special situations. Instead of people getting their feelings hurt, they should pat her on the back.”

Prince’s previous high this season was 51 points, and she beat that by halftime.

“At the half, we thought she had a chance to break the record, so we just let her go,” her coach, Ed Grezinsky, said.

Prince hit an incredible 54 of 60 shots and had only one free throw. She made just four 3-pointers, scoring mostly on layups.

“After I scored 29 points in the first quarter, I didn’t think much of it,” Prince said. “After I had 58 points at the half, and especially after having in the 80s after the third quarter, I just decided to go for it.”

Grezinsky used 16 players and said he had four reserves on the court when Prince broke the record.

“It was exciting because the kids realized she had a chance at the record and they just kept feeding her the ball,” Grezinsky said.

In 12 years of coaching, I’ve been on both ends of blowouts, but nothing close to that. There are ways to prevent a blowout from becoming an embarrassment. Don’t throw the ball out of bounds or stop trying, but pull all the starters, work on passes, run down the shot clock or encourage everyone to shoot.

Two-time WNBA MVP Lisa Leslie scored 101 points in the first half for Morningside High School in Inglewood, Calif., against South Torrance in 1990, and the opposing coach refused to let his team play the second half.

When Kobe Bryant scored 81 points against the Toronto Raptors on Jan. 22, he rallied his team from an 18-point third-quarter deficit. He needed to score 55 in the second half for his team to win.

Earlier in the season, Bryant had 62 points after three quarters in a blowout over the Dallas Mavericks. With the Lakers holding an insurmountable lead there was no need for coach Phil Jackson to put the 6-foot-6 star back into the game.

“It was a 30-point basketball game at that point and that’s not the spirit of the game,” Jackson said. “I did ask Kobe if he wanted to go back in and contend for the (franchise) record. He asked me what I thought, and I said, “It’s a 30-point game.”’

Bryant stayed on the bench.

On Wednesday, Prince kept shooting.

© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

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Posted: February 2, 2006 5:31 pm
by Emerson_Bigguns
For the high school level I'd say that was in extremely poor taste.

Posted: February 2, 2006 5:32 pm
by iuparrothead
If she scored most of her points on layups, then they were most likely pressing full or half court, which is shameful.

Like the author says, it was an adult decision to let her do that... don't blame the player.

Posted: February 2, 2006 5:34 pm
by SharkOnLand
People will always shoot to better records, if they think they have a shot..

Selfish, maybe, but not bad sportsmanship.

What's worse is that the opposing team quit playing defense. What kind of ethics does that teach? If you don't think you can win, don't bother trying, you'll just lose anyway.... :roll:

Posted: February 2, 2006 5:52 pm
by tequilatom
the coach could of pulled her out and played 2nd team players.........you don't go out and humiliate your opponent.....there has to be a little sportsmanship.........if i was a coach and the opposing coach was doing that....that girl would of had one hard foul coming her way!!!Win with dignity and lose with pride!!

Posted: February 2, 2006 6:03 pm
by sonofabeach
Here's how it works
It is the offense's job to score.
It is the defense's job to stop them

It's hard to tell players they can play but not to score.

Posted: February 2, 2006 6:06 pm
by iuparrothead
tequilatom wrote:if i was a coach and the opposing coach was doing that....that girl would of had one hard foul coming her way!!!
:-? I don't know if that is the most appropriate course of action either. The player doesn't deserved to be fouled and risk being hurt just because the coach is a jerk and has made a bad decision. Maybe pull the whole team off the court and forfeit, but there's no need to teach kids retaliation through dirty play.

Posted: February 2, 2006 6:07 pm
by tequilatom
sonofabeach wrote:Here's how it works
It is the offense's job to score.
It is the defense's job to stop them

It's hard to tell players they can play but not to score.
i disagree.......sportsmanship has top come into play........he kept the girl in the game!!!.......they aren't pro's there HS girls!!

Posted: February 2, 2006 6:10 pm
by z-man
sonofabeach wrote:Here's how it works
It is the offense's job to score.
It is the defense's job to stop them

It's hard to tell players they can play but not to score.
Bullsh*t!
There is no excuse for that!

If the score is 137 -125, sure score as much as you can.
But 137 - 32? Get the starters out.
Agreed, that you do not tell players not to score, but to score 113 against a competely overmatched opponent is just bad sportsmanship in my book!

Posted: February 2, 2006 6:12 pm
by SharkOnLand
z-man wrote:
sonofabeach wrote:Here's how it works
It is the offense's job to score.
It is the defense's job to stop them

It's hard to tell players they can play but not to score.
Bullsh*t!
There is no excuse for that!

If the score is 137 -125, sure score as much as you can.
But 137 - 32? Get the starters out.
Agreed, that you do not tell players not to score, but to score 113 against a competely overmatched opponent is just bad sportsmanship in my book!
They stopped playing defense, though. Somebody was going to score, why not go for the record?

Posted: February 2, 2006 6:19 pm
by tequilatom
SharkOnLand wrote:
z-man wrote:
sonofabeach wrote:Here's how it works
It is the offense's job to score.
It is the defense's job to stop them

It's hard to tell players they can play but not to score.
Bullsh*t!
There is no excuse for that!

If the score is 137 -125, sure score as much as you can.
But 137 - 32? Get the starters out.
Agreed, that you do not tell players not to score, but to score 113 against a completely over matched opponent is just bad sportsmanship in my book!
They stopped playing defense, though. Somebody was going to score, why not go for the record?
but I'm sure the 2nd string team wouldn't of put up those numbers......one girl scored 113 of the teams points.......she's headed to a top D-1 school and was/is head and shoulders better than anyone on the other team or even her team for that matter......most coaches would of took her out...........I've played on teams where the other team was no match for us.......our coach would take us out..........if it got close we would go back in.........but we never embarrassed opponents.

Posted: February 2, 2006 6:28 pm
by SharkOnLand
tequilatom wrote:
SharkOnLand wrote:
z-man wrote:
sonofabeach wrote:Here's how it works
It is the offense's job to score.
It is the defense's job to stop them

It's hard to tell players they can play but not to score.
Bullsh*t!
There is no excuse for that!

If the score is 137 -125, sure score as much as you can.
But 137 - 32? Get the starters out.
Agreed, that you do not tell players not to score, but to score 113 against a completely over matched opponent is just bad sportsmanship in my book!
They stopped playing defense, though. Somebody was going to score, why not go for the record?
but I'm sure the 2nd string team wouldn't of put up those numbers......one girl scored 113 of the teams points.......she's headed to a top D-1 school and was/is head and shoulders better than anyone on the other team or even her team for that matter......most coaches would of took her out...........I've played on teams where the other team was no match for us.......our coach would take us out..........if it got close we would go back in.........but we never embarrassed opponents.
If the other team (and I emphasize this) wasn't playing defense and the 2nd-3rd-4th stringers couldn't have made as many layups, they don't belong on the team. Somebody was going to score all those points...

Edit: Besides, if the opposing coach was so worried about sportsmanship, they could have at least rallied the players into trying to stop her from making the record.... She allowed her players to stand around and not play defense, then she compares her team to the handicapped? Give me a break.

Posted: February 2, 2006 6:40 pm
by tequilatom
SharkOnLand wrote:
tequilatom wrote:
SharkOnLand wrote:
z-man wrote:
sonofabeach wrote:Here's how it works
It is the offense's job to score.
It is the defense's job to stop them

It's hard to tell players they can play but not to score.
Bullsh*t!
There is no excuse for that!

If the score is 137 -125, sure score as much as you can.
But 137 - 32? Get the starters out.
Agreed, that you do not tell players not to score, but to score 113 against a completely over matched opponent is just bad sportsmanship in my book!
They stopped playing defense, though. Somebody was going to score, why not go for the record?
but I'm sure the 2nd string team wouldn't of put up those numbers......one girl scored 113 of the teams points.......she's headed to a top D-1 school and was/is head and shoulders better than anyone on the other team or even her team for that matter......most coaches would of took her out...........I've played on teams where the other team was no match for us.......our coach would take us out..........if it got close we would go back in.........but we never embarrassed opponents.
If the other team (and I emphasize this) wasn't playing defense and the 2nd-3rd-4th stringers couldn't have made as many layups, they don't belong on the team. Somebody was going to score all those points...

Edit: Besides, if the opposing coach was so worried about sportsmanship, they could have at least rallied the players into trying to stop her from making the record.... She allowed her players to stand around and not play defense, then she compares her team to the handicapped? Give me a break.
Did you ever play sports or coach????.........if that was a mens game .....it would of got very physical and out of control........someone would of got hurt!!!
and i doubt 2nd , 3rd 4th or even the janitor would of scored that many points......were was the rest of the team if she scored 113 and the rest of the team combined scored what 19 points.

Posted: February 2, 2006 6:46 pm
by sonofabeach
I dunno, maybe it is bad sportsmanship, maybe it's bad defense, maybe it's a phenomenal player. As an FSU football fan I remember all of the whining about routs, especially back when we were on top.
That's where the "it's our job to score & your's to stop us thing comes from. Heck, now I'm just happy with a win although I miss a good beatdown every now and then. :lol:
I've been on baseball and football teams that got stomped as well as on teams that did the violating. It happens.
I too wonder how the losing coach's team feels about the handicapped comparison. That's more offensive than getting waxed imo.

Posted: February 2, 2006 6:49 pm
by UAHparrothead
Not as long as goes on to play for the Lady Vols :lol:

Posted: February 2, 2006 6:55 pm
by SharkOnLand
tequilatom wrote:Did you ever play sports or coach????.........if that was a mens game .....it would of got very physical and out of control........someone would of got hurt!!!
and i doubt 2nd , 3rd 4th or even the janitor would of scored that many points......were was the rest of the team if she scored 113 and the rest of the team combined scored what 19 points.
If it was a mens (or womens or dogs or whatever) game and it got physical, that would mean the men cared enough not to be embarassed.

They stopped playing defense. They didn't care anymore. That's more of a disgrace to their school than someone breaking a record on them, IMO.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is the other team just giving up is a bigger disgrace than a greedy player (or coach) going for a record.

Posted: February 2, 2006 6:56 pm
by SharkOnLand
sonofabeach wrote:I too wonder how the losing coach's team feels about the handicapped comparison. That's more offensive than getting waxed imo.
It was the losing coach (in my understanding of the article) that made the "handicapped" comment. If I was a player, and my coach made a comment like that, I'd be extremely offended.

Posted: February 2, 2006 6:58 pm
by flyboy55
Amazing display of talent but nevertheless poor sportsmanship.

I think this is just a symptom of amateur sports imitating pro sports, with the emphasis on "star" players and setting records.

I wouldn't blame the player for any of this, she's just doin' what she's good at! But I hate to see this kind of thing happen in school sports.

My daughter played basketball for many years on teams that were sometimes very good and sometimes not very good, but they always played their hearts out as a team and shared the glory and the pain. I think she learned a lot about sportsmanship.

They sometimes played against teams that were greatly superior whose coaches played the full court press to the very end with an 80 point lead! I think that's uncalled for at that level (maybe any level).

Like I said - player has amazing talent, coach needs reality check.

Cheers.

Posted: February 2, 2006 7:10 pm
by tequilatom
SharkOnLand wrote:
tequilatom wrote:Did you ever play sports or coach????.........if that was a mens game .....it would of got very physical and out of control........someone would of got hurt!!!
and i doubt 2nd , 3rd 4th or even the janitor would of scored that many points......were was the rest of the team if she scored 113 and the rest of the team combined scored what 19 points.
If it was a mens (or womens or dogs or whatever) game and it got physical, that would mean the men cared enough not to be embarassed.

They stopped playing defense. They didn't care anymore. That's more of a disgrace to their school than someone breaking a record on them, IMO.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is the other team just giving up is a bigger disgrace than a greedy player (or coach) going for a record.
i guess if i'm the coach.......you either show some pride and play hard or i'm stopping the game because you are already embaressing yourself...........you see blow outs in College basketball a lot.......but the other schools know they will get hammmered and its a payoff to there school...............getting back to the other coach.......i was a assistant coach for a team here.......when played a school who was much bigger , faster and i think older than middle school........we were getting blown out..........so in the second half we went into a semi 4 corners.......sorta like Geogetown use to play............we would take a shot a the last moment.....there coach got p***.......he wouldn't even shake hands!!!

Posted: February 2, 2006 11:14 pm
by iuparrothead
tequilatom wrote:
SharkOnLand wrote:If the other team (and I emphasize this) wasn't playing defense and the 2nd-3rd-4th stringers couldn't have made as many layups, they don't belong on the team. Somebody was going to score all those points...

Edit: Besides, if the opposing coach was so worried about sportsmanship, they could have at least rallied the players into trying to stop her from making the record.... She allowed her players to stand around and not play defense, then she compares her team to the handicapped? Give me a break.
Did you ever play sports or coach????.........if that was a mens game .....it would of got very physical and out of control........someone would of got hurt!!!
and i doubt 2nd , 3rd 4th or even the janitor would of scored that many points......were was the rest of the team if she scored 113 and the rest of the team combined scored what 19 points.
I second Tom's sentiment here... It would take a very special person to rally teenage girls to 'stop' the opposing star player when she's virtually scoring at will. I coached teenage girls for 8 years and I'm not sure if I could have motivated a team to do that. They were broken and disheartened... this wasn't a 'Rudy'-like moment. Those girls just wanted to pack up and go home... and frankly, I can understand a bit why they gave up.