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Tiki Bar wrote:

ejr wrote:Just heard that the guy had to have cardiac catheterization

I had that, aka an angiogram, a couple weeks ago. Unless it's being mis-reported, that's a test to look for blockages in the heart.

I found that confusing too. I've had a cardiac cath. as well. Perhaps the pellet caused a clot or blockage? Or they were just exploring?

Sad situation all the way around.

Oh, and our paper (Midland Daily News)had an article tonight regarding an accident where a fellow shot his friend because he thought the "elbow" he saw moving was a squirrel....He wasn't the VP and it still made the news....

Every year during hunting season our paper is full of hunting accidents. Some of them are quite bizzare. Deer hunters have shot everything from from sheep to goats to horses to other hunters thinking that they are deer.....and from the look of all of our deer crossing signs, they are sometimes confused for the real thing as well People with guns scare me Careless people with guns scare me more

Y-NO-9-O wrote:

Sam wrote: A 28 guage shotgun (or other shotgun for that matter) with a bird/fieldload at 30 yards is not going to be very life threatening to humans. Scarey perhaps, painful with surface skin punctures.....but unless a pellet or pellets hit in the eye or eyes...there should not be any serious problem(s). Heavy clothing would be enough to protect a person and act as a bulletproof vest from those sort rounds at that range.Might ruin the clothing though.

Well, it looks as though his "bulletproof vest", a.k.a. "heavy clothes", was not enough to ward off "those sort rounds at that range". I would say a BB next to the heart penetrated a little farther than surface skin punctures. And I would say any heart attack is a serious problem. Unless, of course, we are not hearing the whole story. Naw, that would never happen.
Tonight's menu: humble pie.

What is your point? Are you saying the birdshot caused the heart attack/problems? or are you trying to insinuate the birdshot penetrated deeply and caused severe injury?
Do you know much about shotguns and the types of shot or pellets in the different loads?

from cnn.com:

The hunter shot and wounded by Vice President Dick Cheney suffered a minor heart attack after a piece of birdshot moved to his heart, a hospital spokesman said today.

Sounds like the shot penetrated a vein or something, and moved to the heart....

Sam wrote: What is your point? Are you saying the birdshot caused the heart attack/problems? or are you trying to insinuate the birdshot penetrated deeply and caused severe injury?
Do you know much about shotguns and the types of shot or pellets in the different loads?

My point is that the news is saying that the birdshot caused the heart/attack problems. I am not insinuating anything, not being a doctor, I don't go around saying something is serious or not. I am simply saying that the birdshot seems to have penetrated deeply (I do consider the heart to be an internal organ, and a pretty deep and serious one at that). Change the channel from Fox news and look at what DOCTORS are saying. A pellet may have PENETRATED THE HEART MUSCLE. Not through a vein, but through muscle. Once again, I don't pretend to be an expert, only what is reported.
Oh, and about the humble pie? I take that back. I understand your inability to admit error. Hell, even the mouthpieces around Cheney tried to blame the victim.

SharkOnLand wrote:
Sounds like the shot penetrated a vein or something, and moved to the heart....

The heart is a combination of muscles. If something can lodge, and subsequently move deeper, into a muscle the heart is as big a target as any.

Y-NO-9-O wrote:

Sam wrote: A 28 guage shotgun (or other shotgun for that matter) with a bird/fieldload at 30 yards is not going to be very life threatening to humans. Scarey perhaps, painful with surface skin punctures.....but unless a pellet or pellets hit in the eye or eyes...there should not be any serious problem(s). Heavy clothing would be enough to protect a person and act as a bulletproof vest from those sort rounds at that range.Might ruin the clothing though.

Well, it looks as though his "bulletproof vest", a.k.a. "heavy clothes", was not enough to ward off "those sort rounds at that range". I would say a BB next to the heart penetrated a little farther than surface skin punctures. And I would say any heart attack is a serious problem. Unless, of course, we are not hearing the whole story. Naw, that would never happen.
Tonight's menu: humble pie.

No doubt you are an MD and treating the patieint and have full knowledge of the situation! Thank you for your reports!!

Sam wrote:

Y-NO-9-O wrote:

Sam wrote: A 28 guage shotgun (or other shotgun for that matter) with a bird/fieldload at 30 yards is not going to be very life threatening to humans. Scarey perhaps, painful with surface skin punctures.....but unless a pellet or pellets hit in the eye or eyes...there should not be any serious problem(s). Heavy clothing would be enough to protect a person and act as a bulletproof vest from those sort rounds at that range.Might ruin the clothing though.

Well, it looks as though his "bulletproof vest", a.k.a. "heavy clothes", was not enough to ward off "those sort rounds at that range". I would say a BB next to the heart penetrated a little farther than surface skin punctures. And I would say any heart attack is a serious problem. Unless, of course, we are not hearing the whole story. Naw, that would never happen.
Tonight's menu: humble pie.

No doubt you are an MD and treating the patieint and have full knowledge of the situation! Thank you for your reports!!

We need Dr. Bill Frist and we need him now! Actually I think he's on FOX News offering a diagnosis right now.

flyboy55 wrote:We need Dr. Bill Frist and we need him now! Actually I think he's on FOX News offering a diagnosis right now.

I don't care who you are - that is just funny!!!

captainjoe wrote:

flyboy55 wrote:We need Dr. Bill Frist and we need him now! Actually I think he's on FOX News offering a diagnosis right now.

I don't care who you are - that is just funny!!!

It is?

Wino you know wrote:

captainjoe wrote:

flyboy55 wrote:We need Dr. Bill Frist and we need him now! Actually I think he's on FOX News offering a diagnosis right now.

I don't care who you are - that is just funny!!!

It is?

It is.

Wino you know wrote:

captainjoe wrote:

flyboy55 wrote:We need Dr. Bill Frist and we need him now! Actually I think he's on FOX News offering a diagnosis right now.

I don't care who you are - that is just funny!!!

It is?

It is.

You guys just won't let this one die, will you?

You guys just won't let this one die, will you?

Since we average one Vice President shooting a man every 200 years, we have to stop and take notice. And my point above about the White House making jokes about the event (in the hours before the man had heart trouble) shows that even some republicans could do more than say "Why is this news?" It's obvious why it's news, and spending two days talking about it is hardly overkill. It's only Wednesday, but I'm ready to vote this biggest story of the week.

flyboy55 wrote:

Sam wrote:

Y-NO-9-O wrote:

Sam wrote: A 28 guage shotgun (or other shotgun for that matter) with a bird/fieldload at 30 yards is not going to be very life threatening to humans. Scarey perhaps, painful with surface skin punctures.....but unless a pellet or pellets hit in the eye or eyes...there should not be any serious problem(s). Heavy clothing would be enough to protect a person and act as a bulletproof vest from those sort rounds at that range.Might ruin the clothing though.

Well, it looks as though his "bulletproof vest", a.k.a. "heavy clothes", was not enough to ward off "those sort rounds at that range". I would say a BB next to the heart penetrated a little farther than surface skin punctures. And I would say any heart attack is a serious problem. Unless, of course, we are not hearing the whole story. Naw, that would never happen.
Tonight's menu: humble pie.

No doubt you are an MD and treating the patieint and have full knowledge of the situation! Thank you for your reports!!

We need Dr. Bill Frist and we need him now! Actually I think he's on FOX News offering a diagnosis right now.

He spent an hour in his office watching videos before that, right?

smacky wrote:I'm ready to vote this biggest story of the week.

uh, news flash
this may impact a few more people than Cheney's hunting accident
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... nworld-hed

Ok so WHY is it news? Because it was a slow news day? Politizing it as some asked try thi9s page since you didn;t think it was politicized on the other one I posted ( not to mention all the jokes being made about it by the media and others, GEE I wonder if their loved one was shot if they would think it is so funny) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11334778/
I think the only people making this accident news, or are finding it news worthy are doing so for political reasons.

I am curious to find out how the pellet penetrated and got that deep into his body at such range. It was reported to be size 7 1/2 shot and from a 28 guage shotgun. To give you an idea of the size of the pellets, a BB is .177 diameter,the size of 7 1/2 shot is around .095.

One can or could take a cardboard box 1/4 inch thick, cover it with a piece of leather say 1/8th" thick or so, or other heavy clothing material, set it at 30 yards and shoot it with such a load and distance find the leather MIGHT be penetrated by a few pellets but of the pellets actually penetrated the leather WOULD NOT penetrate both sides cardoard box. A pellet would have to travel at least 4 inches (mininmum) or so into flesh and muscle tissue to get close to the heart. That truly could be called what is known as a "Golden BB".( (BLEEPING LUCKY (depending on one view) SHOT!!!

As for not having the bird hunting"stamp" that was a recent requirement passed by the Texas Legislature within the last 5 months or so. I would guess that most hunters are probably unaware or, before this accident, were unaware of it.

Sam wrote: No doubt you are an MD and treating the patieint and have full knowledge of the situation! Thank you for your reports!!

Dude, don't be belligerent. I read, and it seems this is a guy to believe:

Peter Banko wrote:"Some of the birdshot appears to have moved and lodged into part of his heart ... in what we would say is a minor heart attack," said Peter Banko, administrator at Christus Spohn Hospital Corpus Christi-Memorial.

You know, if this was Al Gore or Ted Kennedy that had SHOT A MAN. Everybody else would be on this and rightly so since, like said before, it has been almost 200 years since the last shooting. I am sorry that this story embarressed the White House. But this is a story.

Sam wrote:Ok so WHY is it news?

It's news because it's the Vice President of the United States. Just like it would be news if it was anybody else in the public eye. If it was Joe Smith from Buttwipe, Arkansas nobody would give a crap. Pun intended.

As for not having the bird hunting"stamp" that was a recent requirement passed by the Texas Legislature within the last 5 months or so. I would guess that most hunters are probably unaware or, before this accident, were unaware of it.

The guide service should have known. Dude needs to pick a better guide service next time. But that's beside the point. When a person hunts in a given state, they are responsible for knowing the rules governing the hunt. Ignorance is no excuse. However with the rule being in effect for only 5 months a written or verbal warning would suffice in this situation. However if I was the Game and Fish Dept in Texas I'd go after the guide service and not Cheney. It is their business to know and they do a tremendous dis-service to their clients when they don't.