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I am Presbyterian and I LOVE OUR FAMILY...our church family that is. Our preacher is a heart transplant patient and he KNOWS how valuable people are and he talks to us on that level. My 6 year old listens. My 15 year old listens. Everyone listens because he has something interesting to say. I whole heartedly believe, live right and you'll be okay. I've given up jobs and lost so-called friends, over dishonest, mean things. God made me. He blessed me with a mother who loves me totally, a wonderful man and the 2 best children ever. Therefore, I make the effort to thank him...often.

I was raised Lutheran and attended Lutheran grade school until I went to high school. My family was very active in the church and I was exposed to it on a daily basis for many years. It was a very positive experience, but many questions I had for my pastors they simply couldn't answer for me.

I feel the important thing is your personal relationship with God and your strength with your faith. The problem I have with organized religions, be it the Catholic Church or others, is their dogma. I won't go into specifics as it can be a very touchy subject, but their dogma and church politics have no bearing on the afterlife.

Honestly all that should matter is how you live your life and that you accept God in your heart. The "rules" that are laid down by a religious organization are (or should be) irrelevant.

Of course this is only my opinion and have no desire to impose my beliefs on anyone else. I think it's wonderful people have so many different views. I cannot argue that some people really benefit from being a part of a large community when it comes to their faith. I just don't feel I need to sit in a church on Sundays to show my appreciation to God and accept Him in my life.

Well since you asked. There is a church and then there is The Church.
I think smaller churches are more oriented into and caring about people and ministering to them, than large organized ones that seem to care more about money and getting their tithes. That place more importance in the building than they do the people that they are suppose to be helping. I am not saying all of the large Churches are this way , but there are many that are......

A guy that was a coworker at one time, Was something in his Church.. ( a deacon or whatever he was I don't remember now) he and his brother got a $4 Million loan just to build a new church. I congradulated him and asked '"Why so much? You could help a lot of people in the community with that money."..He said "Why should we help them?" I said something to the effect, because that is what churches do is help people and what they are there for. I forget the rest of our talk at that time.

Not much I else I can tell you.
You are a parrothead. You are very good with people, from what I have noticed in here. You are sincere and caring. You know what you need to know and what you don't know God will tell you and show you and show you. Just be prepared to listen. From the caterpillar and the coccoon to the metamorphisis into the beauty of a butterfly to the sounds of it wings. Listen to them....and don't ever stop listening.

Probably your hardest day is going to be your first day on the job with the new congregation. That is until you have to handle some situations that you are not familiar with or have not experienced, but I am quite sure God and you will handle them and work through them.
One last thing I will add and one day you will find it hard to believe that it will happen, I am sure, but... Keep the Faith, and never lose it.

God Speed Brad, God Speed!!!

UAHparrothead wrote:Althought I understand you're position and do concur with some of what you say, my main focus in this undertaking is your view on the Christian Church or any other "institution of worship" specifically.

I knew I was straying from what you were really asking about and am sorry for that. And I am also afraid I am straying down a path fraught with ranting and I am sorry for that too.

I am Catholic (yeah, you can all start the jokes now ) and I think for the most part at the parish level the clergy really are good people and do their best at providing food for the soul. But once you start moving up the ladder in the Church though you are in the world of politics baby! It isn’t about religion anymore. It is about how to come up with all the money they needed for the lawsuits and how to spin control their asinine cover-ups. Where is the religion there? That turns me off right away. I go to church primarily for spiritual lessons and God knows I need them. Reasons such as how to live a better and more compassionate life in today’s world. Not to be told what I should be doing politically or financially. Or how I should not even read the DAs scathing report on decades of sexual abuse committed by the church and covered up at the highest levels. Do they have something to hide? p*** off. They are just lucky the statute of limitations is so short on sexual crimes in my state. Otherwise they would all be doing some serious jail time. Which is a shame they aren’t, but then they will be meeting a higher authority on that matter at some point.

Going back to my initial post, I need/want to hear things like how and why I should be turning the other cheek when I see Muslim clerics on TV telling their congregation Jihad, Jihad! Yeah, go out and kill Americans and Christians and Jews i.e., the infidels. Strap a bomb on and go blow up a bunch of kids gathering to get some candy. It is insane and then you pick up the paper and read about how your own Church is covering up priests molesting kids and it has been going on for decades. Are these institutions here to guide us spiritually or have they been hijacked by a bunch of power ego maniacs?

I am really getting sick of seeing organized religion screwing up the world and threatening a lot of people’s lives. This world is messed up enough with out seeing the institutions that you would think are there to come up with solutions to problems instead make them worse.

Does God want that?

Sorry, I am ranting so I have to stop.

Jimmy said it the best there is a fine line between Saturday night and Sunday morning.

Piratical wrote:Does God want that?

Sorry, I am ranting so I have to stop.

Jimmy said it the best there is a fine line between Saturday night and Sunday morning.

Understand your rant. But Brad is looking for how he can be the best preacher he can.

SMLCHNG wrote:

Piratical wrote:Does God want that?

Sorry, I am ranting so I have to stop.

Jimmy said it the best there is a fine line between Saturday night and Sunday morning.

Understand your rant. But Brad is looking for how he can be the best preacher he can.

Thanks Penny for guiding me back to the real question.

I am pretty sure Brad already knows this, but I would say be true to yourself always. Don't preach the "politics" of religion rather preach the spirituality of religion. I think the spirituality part is the what I find missing the most.

This is all been very helpful for me and I deeply appreciate you all sharing something that is very personal. Please continue to share, I am always willing to listen and learn.

Piratical wrote:Thanks Penny for guiding me back to the real question.

I am pretty sure Brad already knows this, but I would say be true to yourself always. Don't preach the "politics" of religion rather preach the spirituality of religion. I think the spirituality part is the what I find missing the most.

It's a subject that's brings out a very emotional reply from so many.

And I REALLYappreciate everyone's thoughtful and helpful reply to Brad.

Brad, I'm really encouraged to see you, as an aspiring pastor, have the courage to ask such a diverse group as we are our opinions on this touchy subject.

I faded away from going to church because I got sick of people telling me what I "should" be. I don't fit in a mold, except the one God used to make me. Once, many years ago, I even had a "Christian" senior officer spit to several of my junior sailors that if he was in their shoes he would never follow my orders, because God didn't require them to listen to a woman. My only consolation is that someday he's going to have to explain himself to the God who created me...

The church of my youth, the Catholic church, allowed politics to become more important than children as they covered for criminals, and I wll never again darken their doors except for family funerals and weddings.

I wish I could find a church where people matter more than politics and dogma. Brad, I believe you will be that kind of a pastor, and if I lived closer I'd be likely to give your church a shot, even though I'm totally gun-shy about denominations...

Tonight I’m really touched by the honesty of your words and the depth of content of everyone’s views. I’ve been a semi regular journal writer for about, well, a long time, and I’m always on the lookout for good things, (stories, photos and the like) that capture the essence of the good and meaningful things in life. I’ll print this thread out and paste it in there.

I used to be a regular church attendee and really involved when the kids were young. Somewhere along the way the way it seems the message about the good news was hijacked. Like many other have shared, issues, politics and dogma seemed to have taken over. . I’ve pretty much quit attending over the past ten years because, “religion’s in the hands of some crazy ass people…” Looking back I think it might be easier some folks to be pro this issue or anti that issue than to be committed to one another and really help their fellow man. I think its important not only to have an open mind, but a deep and abiding respect for the faith of others. You never know, you just might learn something from them. It’s always been about the love God has for people and it will always be about the love God has for people.

OceanCityGirl wrote:I attend a church and have raised all my kids in a church. It's non-denomiational and doesn't emphasize rules. It's more about your personal relationship with God. If you have that he'll help you with the right and wrong's in your life. Not that our church would turn a blind eye to obvious flaunting of the big ten.
I think it's important. Those people are my family. They're there for me at times when I need it, as I am for them. They took my kids under their wings.
But my church is an unusual church. It's in a beach town. The pastor is a surfer who wears shorts and hawaiian shirts to service. Kids come in barefooted or in flip-flops and nobody cares. We have baptisms 3x a year in the ocean. We give big support to local groups esp. Watermen for Christ a big surf group that has contests and surf movie nights. The attitude they have completely is the reason my two 18yo sons who are not saints get their butts to church on their own and do things like work in nursery and mentor younger kids.

See, I like this!!! This is the way it should be. I am a Roman Catholic and went to Catholic school 7-12 grades. I don't go to church anymore for personal reasons. I am not saying that I don't believe in God, just the way the Catholic religion is. My dad stopped going because he and my mom divorced in 1989 and didn't agree with paying $500 for an annulment to say that you were never married and could then remarry in the Catholic church. His brother doesn't go either. My aunt and cousin are Jewish and he focuses more on their religion. Bear in mind, my grandparents are (my PapPap died a few years ago) devout Catholics. But somehow over time, things have changed for us. My grandma still goes every week. I used to go w/my grandparents every week when I was a kid and when I first got married. Now, the wife and I don't go (unless her mom comes to visit). Wife wants me to go since we are having a son at the end of May. I told her I will go once he is born for both of them. She also wants to get him baptized. I wish we could wait, but I guess we'll do it and let him decide his beliefs later.

Growing up, I attended church every Sunday at a Methodist Church. I liked singing the hymns and learning stuff in Sunday School, but other than that I was extremely bored.

Since leaving home and going to college I haven't really gone to church much. I have tried a few 'alternative' churches in the area, but nothing that seems to be a good fit for me. My view on churches and religion may not be the most popular one, but I respect it-as I do all opinions and all religions. I'm not religious, but I'm very spirtual, if that makes sense.

It is my belief that you can be spiritual anywhere that you find the biggest connection with a higher power -whether it be church, the gym or being outdoors.

i go every sunday and holy days......Catholic raised!!

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:Once, many years ago, I even had a "Christian" senior officer spit to several of my junior sailors that if he was in their shoes he would never follow my orders, because God didn't require them to listen to a woman.

Did someone just say something?

I was raised Catholic and used to go to Mass every Sunday and all the holy days. The last time I went to Mass was Midnight Mass for Christmas in 1967 when I was 15 years old. I remember when I was younger always being told God is everywhere. If that's true, and if you believe there is a God, why do you have to go to church?

I also don't like what Mass has turned into, with all this shaking hands with the people next to you. I didn't go to church to make friends when I used to go every week, I wouldn't go to church to make friends now. Unless she's hot. I think I'm going to hell now. Although I have to say that in the warm weather sitting on the steps in front of St. Patrick's Cathedral on 5th Avenue is prime girl watching territory. Now I'm really going straight to hell.

LIPH wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:Once, many years ago, I even had a "Christian" senior officer spit to several of my junior sailors that if he was in their shoes he would never follow my orders, because God didn't require them to listen to a woman.

Did someone just say something?

I was raised Catholic and used to go to Mass every Sunday and all the holy days. The last time I went to Mass was Midnight Mass for Christmas in 1967 when I was 15 years old. I remember when I was younger always being told God is everywhere. If that's true, and if you believe there is a God, why do you have to go to church?

I also don't like what Mass has turned into, with all this shaking hands with the people next to you. I didn't go to church to make friends when I used to go every week, I wouldn't go to church to make friends now. Unless she's hot. I think I'm going to hell now. Although I have to say that in the warm weather sitting on the steps in front of St. Patrick's Cathedral on 5th Avenue is prime girl watching territory. Now I'm really going straight to hell.

Larry if you are going to the phlocking......please don't fly out of Hartford on the same flight i am!!!!

It's curious but "church" has always meant community to me but I have not been able to find one. My sister has been an active part of one in the next town for over 35 years and I envy her good fortune.
If I could find a congregation that presented the warmth, love and good will as conveyed by Peter Mayer, I would be a regular.
John

My grandfather was a Methodist minister. As a child I always enjoyed going to church and watching him. I saw him help so many people over the years. He wasn't over the top about his church or religion. He was a normal guy. After he transferred to another church I no longer enjoyed church so much because he wasn't there.

Fast forward to now. Il do not go to church. Sometimes I wonder if it is a bad thing. Especially because I am not taking my kids to church. I just cannot bring myself to go. So many churches around here are about how much money you make and how much you give to the church.

An example, a man from this community lost his young son in a car accident. The man goes to his church to arrange the funeral. The pastor tells the man that he cannot help him because he didn't give enough money to the church over the past year. WTF. The man had to look elsewhere to gets his sons funeral set up.

Another example, my mother belongs to a church that I can only describe as cultish. They teach that ALL other churches or religions are fake. They are the only TRUE church with a direct line to God. Also on one hand they teach forgiveness but then the pastor kicks his teenage daughter out of the house because she got pregnant.

I'm sure there are very good churches out there. Probably some right under my nose but I just see so many bad un-church like behavior coming directly from the church that it sours it for me.

Just an obsevation: I see a common thread in these posts, to which I will add my own stitch (trying to have a "thread" analogy, work with me! )
Small, community churches seem to be....what's the word I want....not "preferred"....but where people find more comfort and sense of belonging? Still not sure I have the right words.

"Large" churches seem to make people feel farther away from their God, and like they just want money to "feed the machine."

It's much like that in businesses and community groups as well when you think about it. I guess it's part of the dynamic of organizations.

I belonged to small AND large Presbyterian congregations in my youth, up through college. At the large "uptown" congregation we belonged to in my teens, it seemed like everyone was there to impress everyone else. There was point where the church decided they just HAD TO HAVE a set of handbells so they could have a handbell choir to travel and impress other churches. You would be AMAZED how much a decent set of handbells cost! I remember my parents (and I) were pretty disgusted that that much money would be spent on what considered "froo froo crap," although we didn't actually call it that. Shortly after that, our beloved minister passed away, and his replacement had ZERO charisma.

The small congregations to which I belonged always made me feel like I counted. I get warm fuzzies thinking about it. The preacher took care of his flock. When a family member was ill, he was there to help. When a baby was born, there was a dedication ceremony, not just a Baptism. The congregation came together and dedicated themselves to nurture the child as he grew up.

All I can say is that when the preacher doesn't know your name, it doesn't tend to make you feel like he can really "minister" to you.

Someone posted "God is everywhere." I agree with his comment, why do we have to go then? Also, why do Catholics have to have a middle man (priest) to tell their sins to when God already knows what you have done and can easily tell him "sorry" yourself? Another good question that has plagued me...where does God come from? Catholic church's response: "God always was and always will be." That's BS...he had to come from somewhere, just like there has to be an end in the universe (like the edge of a piece of paper). I choose not to look into those questions because they make my chest hurt arguing with pious people. Believe what you want to believe. Like someone else said, smaller communities have more of that feel than larger communities. My biggest gripe is when my mom-in-law comes to visit or the wife and I go home is that they have to go to church and try to get me to go. Respect my wishes and let me go if I choose, I am not 2 years old. She drives me nuts...that's a bad thing not to go, blah blah blah. Well, why go if you swear like a drunken sailor and have sex (not the mom-in-law) before marriage or masturbate? I think it's wrong to go and say you are a devout Christian/Catholic based on the beliefs of those religions. That's being hypocritical. Sorry, I can go on all day but won't.

I am a former catholic. The feeling that I was being hypocritical over issues like birth control made me decide to leave. My first daughter was baptized in a catholic church. My sons were not. I have a hyper catholic mother who goes to church 8 days per week. She believes my children and I are condemned to hell because we don't receive communion from a catholic priest. And yet she goes to church every day because she isn't sure of her future after death.
You don't need to earn God's love.