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UAHparrothead wrote:

Sam wrote:

UAHparrothead wrote:

Sam wrote: The closest of the Gospels to Jesus, was written over 100 years after the Death and Ressurection of Christ.

Just FYI, but most scholars place the Gospel of Mark, the first of the Gospels written, at about 75-90 CE, so it was more like 50 or 60 years after the Resurrection.

Thanks,
I by no means consider myself to be a Bible scholar. I am by no means out to impress anyone, I just learn as best that I can.

I am was not sure of the exact years that hadpassed, but if I recalled it correctly, that is what the author that went to the original text and translated said. As you indicated I am probably wrong on the years that passed It has been a very long time since I read the book.
I used to have a leatherbound copy of Dake's Annotated Reference Bible ...that I gave to my Mother. It dissappeared after her death. I won't comment any further on that item or the following incidents.

My apologies for being mistaken on the date.

Nothing to apologize for, I appreciate your comments

I just hope that they will be of some positive use to you.
Thank you again. I have no doubt you are going to do a fine job. With time and experience you will touch more people and affect them, than you possibly ever dreamed of.
All the Best to you and yours. God Bless and stay safe.

My Momma raised me "right"...(Right for me anyhow). I'm Presbyterian. We go to church. We host the Easter egg hunt. We help our youth. We love and teach our Sunday School classes. I raise my children with the same "rules" as I was raised. Do unto others, that's it. The Ten Commandments are basic. Not to be varied from. I firmly believe a good moral foundation is key to successful adults. My kids do not think it's okay to be a thief or to hit someone. We just don't. Period. Now, having said this, how do I feel about the Bible???
As my little one will tell you...
The B I B L E, yes that's the book for me. I stand alone on the Word of God, The B I B L E!!

jimolliemom wrote:My Momma raised me "right"...(Right for me anyhow). I'm Presbyterian. We go to church. We host the Easter egg hunt. We help our youth. We love and teach our Sunday School classes. I raise my children with the same "rules" as I was raised. Do unto others, that's it. The Ten Commandments are basic. Not to be varied from. I firmly believe a good moral foundation is key to successful adults. My kids do not think it's okay to be a thief or to hit someone. We just don't. Period. Now, having said this, how do I feel about the Bible???
As my little one will tell you...
The B I B L E, yes that's the book for me. I stand alone on the Word of God, The B I B L E!!

i too was raised right, with good morals (better than most people these days) and that was done without any kind of religion forced on me. something i thank my parents for all the time

tommcat327 wrote:i too was raised right, with good morals (better than most people these days) and that was done without any kind of religion forced on me. something i thank my parents for all the time

I have to say it was the same for me, Tom.

I don't feel anything was "forced" on me. I'll say again...I was raised with what's right for me. This post was about your personal belief and the Bible. I totally respect anyone's thoughts and beliefs and have never tried to "convert" someone to any other form. Although, MANY have tried to change me. I also believe the Christian foundation only strengthened the moral ground in the first place. To me, they go hand in hand. To other's they may not.

jimolliemom wrote:I also believe the Christian foundation only strengthened the moral ground in the first place. To me, they go hand in hand. To other's they may not.

I think for much of the population of the planet, they don't go hand in hand. While a Christian foundation can certainly strengthen your moral position if you're raised that way, I definitely don't see it as necessary for morality. I can think of at least a couple of my friends who are atheists, but among the most moral people I know. Then there's the majority of the planet, who aren't of the Christian faith. Plenty of moral folks there, too. And there are plenty of "Christians" who are immoral slimebags....

I know you were talking about you, personally, and not dissing those of other traditions, but I just wanted to add on.

SMLCHNG wrote:

tommcat327 wrote:i too was raised right, with good morals (better than most people these days) and that was done without any kind of religion forced on me. something i thank my parents for all the time

I have to say it was the same for me, Tom.

Ditto.

jimolliemom wrote: I also believe the Christian foundation only strengthened the moral ground in the first place.

I'D HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH THAT ALSO. ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME PEOPLE THAT HAVE TORTURED AND KILLED THOUSANDS OVER THE YEARS IN THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY?
I'M NOT SAYING I ALWAYS EQUATE IT WITH BAD THINGS EITHER BUT CHRISTIANITY AND MORALITY CERTAINLY DO NO GO HAND IN HAND.

IF THAT WAS THE CASE THERE WOULD BE NO SUCH THINGS AS THE WHOLE CATHOLIC PRIEST PROBLEMS OVER THE YEARS. I'M NO CHRISTIAN BUT I KNOW THAT WHAT THEY DID WAS COMPLETELY IMMORAL.

tommcat327 wrote:

jimolliemom wrote: I also believe the Christian foundation only strengthened the moral ground in the first place.

I'D HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH THAT ALSO. ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME PEOPLE THAT HAVE TORTURED AND KILLED THOUSANDS OVER THE YEARS IN THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY?
I'M NOT SAYING I ALWAYS EQUATE IT WITH BAD THINGS EITHER BUT CHRISTIANITY AND MORALITY CERTAINLY DO NO GO HAND IN HAND.

IF THAT WAS THE CASE THERE WOULD BE NO SUCH THINGS AS THE WHOLE CATHOLIC PRIEST PROBLEMS OVER THE YEARS. I'M NO CHRISTIAN BUT I KNOW THAT WHAT THEY DID WAS COMPLETELY IMMORAL.

But the teachings of Christ have nothing to do with those events, the Crusades, the Inquisition, or bombings of abortion clinics. People have used the guise of Christianity for their own polticial, sexual, and monatary gain. On the other hand, I do agree with Jen in that Christian is not the moral litmus test and there are plenty of people in other religions (and I count atheism as a religion) who have a better sense of morality than some Christians.

UAHparrothead wrote:(and I count atheism as a religion)

the fundamental definition of religion is the belief in a supernatural power. since an atheist does not believe in the supernatural, it can not be consider a religion. same goes for secular humanism....

AlbatrossFlyer wrote:

UAHparrothead wrote:(and I count atheism as a religion)

the fundamental definition of religion is the belief in a supernatural power. since an atheist does not believe in the supernatural, it can not be consider a religion. same goes for secular humanism....

another fundamental definition for religion is a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith. I would say the both the belief and the unbelief in a diety requires faith.

my all time favor still is an early episode of "The West Wing" were President Bartlett confronted a radio talk show host loosely based on Dr. Laura. Alan Sorkin wrote the scene based on an anonymous email sent to the real Dr. Laura.....

Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can.

When someone tries to defend homosexuality, for example, I will simply remind him or her that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other laws in Leviticus and Exodus and how to best follow them.

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Leviticus 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as stated in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Leviticus 15:19-24). The problem is, how can I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Leviticus 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine says that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Leviticus 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Leviticus 20:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's Word is eternal and unchanging.

Sorkin's dialog from the Midterms Episode:

President barlett entering the room....

BARTLET: It's a good idea to be reminded of the awesome impact, the awesome impact. I'm sorry. You're Dr. Jenna Jacobs, right?

JACOBS (obviously pleased to be recognized): Yes, sir!

BARTLET: It's good to have you here.

JACOBS: Thank you!

BARTLET: . the awesome impact of the airwaves, and how that translates into the furthering of our national discussions, but obviously also how it can . how it can . Forgive me, Dr. Jacobs. Are you an M.D.?

JACOBS: A Ph.D.

BARTLET: A Ph.D.

JACOBS: Yes, sir.

BARTLET: In psychology?

JACOBS: No, sir.

BARTLET: Theology?

JACOBS: No.

BARTLET: Social work?

JACOBS: I have a Ph.D. in English Literature.

BARTLET: I'm asking 'cause on your show people call in for advice - and you go by the name Dr. Jacobs on your show - and I didn't know if maybe your listeners were confused by that and assumed you had advanced training in psychology, theology or health care.

JACOBS: I don't believe they are confused, no, sir.

BARTLET: I like your show. I like how you call homosexuality an "abomination!"

JACOBS: I don't say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President. The Bible does.

BARTLET: Yes it does. Leviticus!

JACOBS: 18:22.

BARTLET: Chapter and verse. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I had you here. I wanted to sell my youngest daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She's a Georgetown Sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be?

(Bartlet only waits a second for a response, then plunges on.)

BARTLET: While thinking about that, can I ask another? My chief of staff, Leo McGary, insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? Or is it okay to call the police?

(Bartlet barely pauses to take a breath.)

BARTLET: Here's one that's really important, because we've got a lot of sports fans in this town. Touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you?

(The camera pushes in on the president.)

One last thing. While you may be mistaking this for your monthly meeting of the Ignorant Tight-Ass Club, in this building when the president stands, nobody sits.

(Jacobs sees that, in fact, the president is standing and she is the only one in the room sitting. After a moment, she rises, holding her tiny plate of appetizers. After the president exits, Sam Seaborn sternly approaches a thoroughly belittled Jacobs.)

SAM: I'm just . going to take that crab puff.

(Sam snatches Dr. Jacob's crab puff, then hurries after the president.)

This is where is problem with fundamentalism occurs, the proof-texting of one or two verses out of context to order to bolster one's veiw on a particular social issue. The Bible mentions homosexuality only a handful of times both in the Old and New Testaments, however the Bible mentions the care for the poor over 2,000 times, so I think once the Church feeds everyone on the planent then they can start pointing out the speck in someone else's eye.

it's the whole dogma thing that just really torques me. the bible says its so, therefore it's an absolute truth and there's nothing to discuss AND if you don't accept my position you are wrong.

footnote

one can just as easily replace bible with koran or torah.... but this is a bible discussion thread and i don't want to be accused of hijacking the thread and converting it to an islamic discussion thread

In Shala.

The winners write the history books.

UAHparrothead wrote:This is where is problem with fundamentalism occurs, the proof-texting of one or two verses out of context to order to bolster one's veiw on a particular social issue. The Bible mentions homosexuality only a handful of times both in the Old and New Testaments, however the Bible mentions the care for the poor over 2,000 times, so I think once the Church feeds everyone on the planet then they can start pointing out the speck in someone else's eye.

I really appreciate your attitude.

Never read it and I'm doin alright.


I have my own personal dialouge with whoever is in charge and he/she/it seems to be leading me in the right direction. I won't know a thing until i get there and that is o.k. with me. Enjoy the ride, it doesn't last long.

OystersandBeer wrote:I have my own personal dialouge with whoever is in charge and he/she/it seems to be leading me in the right direction.

That wouldn't be The Flying Spaghetti Monster by chance would it?

http://www.venganza.org

Humans are frail creatures....as a result of the many things we cannot comprehend, understand and underestimate we must, have to and will find something bigger or more powerful then us to believe in...could be anybody, anything...and it usually has two powerful prongs...it is external..read...we are not our own God...and it is relevant only to the individual in its meaning and substance.

Show me a man or woman who is a self-defined God and I will show you an time bomb.