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Key Lime Lee wrote:I agree with Frank.... my folks went to church pretty regularly, I went to Sunday school, was an alter boy, etc... but at some point I started asking questions about what it was I was participating in and, when I couldn't find answers that satisfied me, left it behind.

I followed the exact same path. I even did the lector thing for a few years in Jr. High...to which I attribute my present hatred of public speaking.

NYCPORT wrote:When praying before a game or event which "God" do you pray to??? Do you bring Jesus' name into the prayer? Did you ever stop and think how someone who didn't believe in Jesus the way you do would feel in such a prayer?
I just don't see the how the lines are drawn to say if I pray I'm a good person. All I'm seeing is a crutch for you to lean on. How about something along the lines of "I know how good people are supposed to act and I will teach my children the same." Why does religion have to be thrown in the mix?
Did you ask your children before you started taking them to church if they wanted to go?

All during my son's high school I only saw prayer at one school. It was when his school played the Jesuit school at their stadium. Right now in Texas prayer isn't allowed in public schools.

That was also the dirtiest played and worst officiated game I've ever seen in high school football. Well except for when my high school played the same team.

When I went to school, prayer was allowed, and the majority of the teachers that actually had prayer in the classroom didn't necessarily call it prayer. One teacher, every morning in her 1st period class would have a moment of quiet time before she conducted class. She let it be known that that time was for reflection, meditation or prayer.

I have never felt totally comfortable with organized religion as it is interpreted by man and man is falible when it comes to the details. I guess that's why there are so many different ones, and different ones within ones. Look at all the religions under "Christian."

Besides, do they not all boils down to the same thing: an acknowledgment of the originator of all things?

NYCPORT wrote:When praying before a game or event which "God" do you pray to??? Do you bring Jesus' name into the prayer? Did you ever stop and think how someone who didn't believe in Jesus the way you do would feel in such a prayer?
I just don't see the how the lines are drawn to say if I pray I'm a good person. All I'm seeing is a crutch for you to lean on. How about something along the lines of "I know how good people are supposed to act and I will teach my children the same." Why does religion have to be thrown in the mix?
Did you ask your children before you started taking them to church if they wanted to go?

the line can't be drawn because it's not possible. Look at how many clergy folk get busted for embezzlement or molestation. It happens all the time, so praying ahs nothing to do with being a good person.

I don't necessarily think it's a crutch to lean on either. I think the Bible is intended to help people lead "better" lives and hopefully live by some morals, though most people have the same morals regardless of religion (ie, you shouldn't go around killing people), so religion is kinda irrelevant there....but its a way to convey the message for some people.

A large part of it is a comfort level. Why do you think so many old people find religion as they hit their 50's or so? Despite being only 25, I've kinda begun the same path.

I've been a Deist for some time. I believe in the Creator, the Architect of the Universe. The sun, stars, physics in general...those are facts you can't deny...and Deists don't pray or believe in the Bible. But as I lay in the ER near death a couple months ago, completely paralyzed and going through extreme pain...the only thought in my head was, "God make it go away". Very shortly after, I started giving thought to more religious beliefs. Not because I literally believe every word of the bible (which I don't), but because of the comfort level God can give, if you choose to believe. I'll most likely remain non-denomination, nor will I attend to church. But my beliefs and feelings towards religion have changed.

IrishG wrote:A large part of it is a comfort level. Why do you think so many old people find religion as they hit their 50's or so? Despite being only 25, I've kinda begun the same path.

Considering I'm knocking on the door of being an old person (why do I not feel old?) I have to disagree with you somewhat on that statement. For the majority of us old folks that I know our beliefs were rooted in us long before we started to get old. (what would that be, turning 40? ) It's thru our life's experiences that we have learned to refine whatever belief we have, be as an athiest or a christian or whatever path we choose to follow.

ph4ever wrote:Considering I'm knocking on the door of being an old person

You're not knockin on that door, darlin.














You kicked it in long ago!

rednekkPH wrote:

ph4ever wrote:Considering I'm knocking on the door of being an old person

You're not knockin on that door, darlin.














You kicked it in long ago!

don't pi$$ me off, I'll start a fire down here

ph4ever wrote:

IrishG wrote:A large part of it is a comfort level. Why do you think so many old people find religion as they hit their 50's or so? Despite being only 25, I've kinda begun the same path.

Considering I'm knocking on the door of being an old person (why do I not feel old?) I have to disagree with you somewhat on that statement. For the majority of us old folks that I know our beliefs were rooted in us long before we started to get old. (what would that be, turning 40? ) It's thru our life's experiences that we have learned to refine whatever belief we have, be as an athiest or a christian or whatever path we choose to follow.

maybe it's just my family?

Ok, I don't mean to say they suddenly "found Jesus" as they aged....growing up in the South, as the many generations before me did, religion is part of your life as a child. But no doubt, form what I'm seen and heard in my family (grandparents, great aunts/uncles, etc)...is that they tend to "reconnect" as they age. During their teens, 20's, 30's, 40's....religion wasn't a priority. Kids, work, etc. was more of a focus. Perhaps it was in the back of their mind somewhere, but it wasn't openly practiced or talked about. Only when they hit their 50's and 60's did they start going to church again and openly talking about religion.

I also grew up in a very religious/church-going family. I never, ever felt comfortable in that environment and I didn't really 'believe' either. Various times in my life I've tried to 'believe' and it was almost frustrating to tears because I'd see people so rooted in their faith and I just didn't get it. It's never been an experience that was enjoyable or pleasant and was always guilt-ridden. It's been my experience that folks at church were the most judgemental of them all, and that's no place for a girl like me.

Damn, Buffettbride, what church did you go to? Just so i know to stay away. I don't know if people at my church were judgmental when i was growin up. I never spoke to any of them. I went and would count down the minutes on my watch. I just wanted to go play on Sundays.

I didn't find faith until I was seventeen. That acid put the fear of GOD in me. Before that I spoke to my dad. He died when i was fourteen, so I spoke to him everynight form fourteen to seventeen. Then after that trip, GOD was in my conversations. Now I speak to both of them on pretty regular basis without goin to church. Meditation seems to do the trick for me.

OystersandBeer wrote:I didn't find faith until I was seventeen. That acid put the fear of GOD in me.

You weren't playing Black Sabbath at 78 speed, were you?

rednekkPH wrote:I even did the lector thing for a few years in Jr. High...

Hannibal? I apologize in advance...

ph4ever wrote:What am I supposed to feel good about when I realize Tom is right??

you will feel better once you accept me as the one true enlightened one. accept tommcat into your life and all will be right in the world.

ph4ever wrote:

IrishG wrote:A large part of it is a comfort level. Why do you think so many old people find religion as they hit their 50's or so? Despite being only 25, I've kinda begun the same path.

Considering I'm knocking on the door of being an old person (why do I not feel old?) I have to disagree with you somewhat on that statement. For the majority of us old folks that I know our beliefs were rooted in us long before we started to get old. (what would that be, turning 40? ) It's thru our life's experiences that we have learned to refine whatever belief we have, be as an athiest or a christian or whatever path we choose to follow.

I have yet to meet someone with the complaint "life is too good and I need it stop" then found religion....conversely I have known many to say "I feel so bad and I want it to stop" and found religion.

50's/60's is a time of reflection, of understanding ones value and contribution to society as a whole....it is during that time when many confront successes and failures and look to right the wrongs and make the rights more profound......a time of integrity vs despair..to be, through having been, to face not being a profoundly motivating time

tommcat327 wrote:

ph4ever wrote:What am I supposed to feel good about when I realize Tom is right??

you will feel better once you accept me as the one true enlightened one. accept tommcat into your life and all will be right in the world.

isn't the fact that I love you acceptance enough???

tommcat327 wrote:

ph4ever wrote:What am I supposed to feel good about when I realize Tom is right??

you will feel better once you accept me as the one true enlightened one. accept tommcat into your life and all will be right in the world.

according to the local minister we ran into on Virgin Gorda, I AM THE CHOSEN ONE.

This discussion is certainly an interesting one.

A couple observations...Soraya, you seem to have acquired quite a strong bitterness towards religion, Christianity, etc. I would likely have the same troubles and caged feeling if I lived in the strict bible belt part of the country. I just need more freedom to think, feel, believe, etc. without being judged and cast aside. Central Indiana is plenty (and sometimes too) conservative and traditional enough for me.

I personally had some tough times last year and found that when I looked to a group of friends for help, the "church going trio" were the ones I could not depend on. They disappeared and were then judgemental, dismissive, rude, hurtful, and even childish. Yet they claim superiority and excuse their actions because they check that church-going box. And yes, that experience and others have made me more cynical. Don't tell me what kind of person you are; show me.

It's also interesting that some board regulars who I believe do attend church haven't posted in this thread. I don't know if that's a "silent majority," people just don't want to venture into the topic, or what. Quite a bit of the thread, however, has a feel of "anti-religious backlash" to it.

Religion just seems to be such a polarizing topic these days...which is too bad. (I suppose this is because religion has become so intertwined with our country's current politics...but that's another topic.) I just feel people should have a right to true freedom of religion...believe what they believe (or don't believe) without impressing or forcing that upon others. Perhaps I'm just an idealist (or just hopeful) in that way.

*sniff*

*sniff*

I smell some bifurcated tails amongst us.



to those whose 'sense-o-humor' glands are deficient,
that was a JOKE!!!

joke : n. 1. Something said or done to amuse. 2. Something said or done in fun rather than in earnest.

Back to the subject: the Bible gives us good guidelines to live by.
God knows we humans need them.
whoops!
Yep, I believe in God. And you can't make me not.
So there.
ha

AlbatrossFlyer wrote:

tommcat327 wrote:

ph4ever wrote:What am I supposed to feel good about when I realize Tom is right??

you will feel better once you accept me as the one true enlightened one. accept tommcat into your life and all will be right in the world.

according to the local minister we ran into on Virgin Gorda, I AM THE CHOSEN ONE.

well i know for a fact that i am the real chosen one, i had a vision that told me so.

personally i think most of today's societal problems concerning religion in public life can be traced to certain fundamental christian sects and that active proselytizing is part and parcel to their core beliefs. this concept came out in spades during the Air Force's investigation of overt religious interference at the Air Force Academy. It was so bad that the Academy Chaplain was reassigned for not being Christian enough.

while virtually everyone in this thread has a "to each their own" attitude towards religion and spirituality, one just has to turn on the TV to hear plenty of examples of intolerant "my way or you're wrong and you're going to rot in hell" attitudes.....