Bush, GOP Approval Ratings Hit New Lows

[Burny Charles]

I totally agree with everyone's posts.

What I need to say is blah.

[markruble]

IMHO what is wrong with our political system is the system itself. We have the far right wing nuts and we have the far lefties. They each play to their special intrest groups. Maybe we the voters need to focus on those people who are running for office that cares about the issues that effect the everyday citizens of this country. Is there such a creature? I'm not sure! I want to believe there is someone out there that cares about the issues and not about the special intrest groups like the religious right wing nuts and big oil. Lets focus on at home issues like health care, border control and fixing the economy and the national debt. Issues that effects us all.

[Wino you know]

IMHO what is wrong with our political system is the system itself. We have the far right wing nuts and we have the far lefties. They each play to their special intrest groups. Maybe we the voters need to focus on those people who are running for office that cares about the issues that effect the everyday citizens of this country. Is there such a creature? I'm not sure! I want to believe there is someone out there that cares about the issues and not about the special intrest groups like the religious right wing nuts and big oil. Lets focus on at home issues like health care, border control and fixing the economy and the national debt. Issues that effects us all.

I agree. We need someone other than the far left wing nuts and their socialist agenda.

[sonofabeach]

BTW the reason we are in the war is because of the conduct of the previous adminstration's 8 year reign of shame and the inactions taken by it, that led us to it.

but the Gulf War was before Clinton

[Sam]

BTW the reason we are in the war is because of the conduct of the previous adminstration's 8 year reign of shame and the inactions taken by it, that led us to it.

but the Gulf War was before Clinton

YES Gulf War I DID OCCUR BEFORE CLINTON......HOWEVER THE "AFTERSHOCKS /AFTER EFFECTS" DID TAKE PLACE WHILE HE WAS IN OFFCE. His lack of response to those "after effects", led us to our current situation.

[NYCPORT]

Actually the reason we are in Iraq right now is because being a moron runs in the Bush family. If the first one had finished the job we wouldn't have this problem on our hands.

[jonesbeach10]

So?

Blah.



Forgive the 'flippant' reply.


I hate political discussions.

I'm trying, Penny.

You know, I was interested in this discussion until it became a shouting match between the Conservatives and Liberals of BN.
Before I join you guys on the sidelines, I'm just going to say that in BOTH parties, politics gets caught up WAY too much over policy and hence, all it leads to are deeper divisions between the two parties.

On that note, who's got the popcorn?

[flyboy55]

Over many years of observation, I have come to the following conclusion:

Whenever a Republican screws up in a major way (ruins the economy, breaks the law, steals money, lies to the public, etc) the discussion usually ends up with something equivalent to "Yeah BOTH parites have their share of crooks" or "ALL politicians are bad".

Whenever a Democrat screws up in a major way (see above) the discussion usually begins and ends with "Those Dems are SCUMBAGS".

While this might seem evenhanded to some, it isn't. I detect a certain bias in this.

Also, if you are of the opinion that things are BAD right now (economy, civil liberties, border security, progress in Iraq, etc) and you want to BLAME someone, you can't reasonably blame anyone but the folks who have been in power since 2000 ie the Republicans. If the Democrats had been in power you could blame them, but they haven't so you can't.

If you insist on blaming the Democrats for the current state of the union, then you are living in your own fantasy world and are too far gone for reasonable discussion.

The only argument can be over whether you think the Republicans have screwed things up or they are doing a swell job - not whether the Republicans or the Democrats have screwed things up in the last six years.

Cheers.

[RinglingRingling]

IMHO what is wrong with our political system is the system itself. We have the far right wing nuts and we have the far lefties. They each play to their special intrest groups. Maybe we the voters need to focus on those people who are running for office that cares about the issues that effect the everyday citizens of this country. Is there such a creature? I'm not sure! I want to believe there is someone out there that cares about the issues and not about the special intrest groups like the religious right wing nuts and big oil. Lets focus on at home issues like health care, border control and fixing the economy and the national debt. Issues that effects us all.

I agree. We need someone other than the far left wing nuts and their socialist agenda.

or the far right, hypocritical, morally-bankrupt (and fiscally-bankrupting) right wingnuts being led around by their noses by the so-called Christians in Falwell/Robertson/etc's camp.

[Quiet and Shy]

So?

Blah.



Forgive the 'flippant' reply.


I hate political discussions.

I'm trying, Penny.

You know, I was interested in this discussion until it became a shouting match between the Conservatives and Liberals of BN.
Before I join you guys on the sidelines, I'm just going to say that in BOTH parties, politics gets caught up WAY too much over policy and hence, all it leads to are deeper divisions between the two parties.

On that note, who's got the popcorn?

Yeah, the over-reacting, finger pointing, and name calling gets rediculous... It's a shame a reasonable discussion around this can't be held on this board.

On a side note, although the buzz has been "tax cuts", the AMT (alternative minimum tax) as impacted an increasing number each year, so the actual tax revenue stream hasn't really changed...it's a PR shell game.

[Sam]

Thing what amazes me is all of the bashing of President Bush, and those that ignore the wrong doing of the left/ democrats and only seem to find fault with republicans.
The Democrats have the same problems the Republicans do. They are human and are not Gods. Neither party is.

They are actually no better. Both sides need to clean house and get rid of the garbage. Ignoring the garbage of your own side and blaming the other side, does nothing. Do you really think that is going to work for the betterment of OUR COUNTRY?
Do you really think one party commits less or more crimminal acts than the other?

What is the choice to vote for A left wing socialist that wants to spend more of MY MONEY on social programs supporting illegal aliens and people that WILL NOT work and other pork barrel spending and tends to take away my Rights as a firearm owner OR vote for someone that lets me keep more of my own money and then waste more tax payer dollars on pork barrel legislation ( such as a most uneeded bridge in Alaska) and alledgedly support my Right to keep and bear arms?
You may choose however methop to protect and defend yourself and your family. If you feel comfortablewith and rely on a phone and huddled in safe room.....so be it. Don't take away my Right to defend and protect my home as I see fit.

I will say voter apathy and those that vote strictly party line have gave this to us.

You don't like Republican or conservative views? Fine.

You don't like Democratic or left wing socialist views? Fine.

DON'T EXPECT EITHER OF THE RESPECTIVE PARTIES TO BE LESS OR MORE CULPABLE OR INNOCENT THAN THE OTHER!!! BOTH ARE GUILTY AND TO BE HELD TO BLAME!

THey both have their faults!!!

So what does one do? What candidate can one vote for, that is REALLY GOING TO DO WHAT HE OR SHE PROMISED?

A hookers (prostitute) heart holds more promise and value than ANY politicians promise.

I enjoy my/OUR Freedoms. I served to ptotect them. I did what I had to do. IF I wanted to live in a socialist country I would have moved to one.
No one is stopping anyone from moving anywhere and if thet know of a better country to live than here in the U.S., then I am waiting to hear the name of it and where it is and why more people are not living there and I also wonder how many people give up everything they own and risk thier lives to get there, as they do to get to the U.S. EVERY DAY!!!
Hate or dislike our President as you choose, but go ahead and pick and name a better country to live.

[a1aara]

BTW the reason we are in the war is because of the conduct of the previous adminstration's 8 year reign of shame and the inactions taken by it, that led us to it.

but the Gulf War was before Clinton

YES Gulf War I DID OCCUR BEFORE CLINTON......HOWEVER THE "AFTERSHOCKS /AFTER EFFECTS" DID TAKE PLACE WHILE HE WAS IN OFFCE. His lack of response to those "after effects", led us to our current situation.

I thought the "cause" of our current situation was the Treasonous lies told by the Bush administration and the Neo-Cons to justify a war against Iraq?

[Sam]

BTW the reason we are in the war is because of the conduct of the previous adminstration's 8 year reign of shame and the inactions taken by it, that led us to it.

but the Gulf War was before Clinton

YES Gulf War I DID OCCUR BEFORE CLINTON......HOWEVER THE "AFTERSHOCKS /AFTER EFFECTS" DID TAKE PLACE WHILE HE WAS IN OFFCE. His lack of response to those "after effects", led us to our current situation.

I thought the "cause" of our current situation was the Treasonous lies told by the Bush administration and the Neo-Cons to justify a war against Iraq?

Think as you will.....Do I really need to rehash the various reasons of WHY we are there or WHY we are fighting a war on terror?
Do you think President's Bush Adminstration is any less truthful than the previous adminstration?

How would you fight the terrs? Please don't tell me soley in Afghanistan!!!
REMEMBER WHO STARTED THE WAR WITH US!!!

[Lightning Bolt]

BTW the reason we are in the war is because of the conduct of the previous adminstration's 8 year reign of shame and the inactions taken by it, that led us to it.

but the Gulf War was before Clinton

YES Gulf War I DID OCCUR BEFORE CLINTON......HOWEVER THE "AFTERSHOCKS /AFTER EFFECTS" DID TAKE PLACE WHILE HE WAS IN OFFCE. His lack of response to those "after effects", led us to our current situation.

I thought the "cause" of our current situation was the Treasonous lies told by the Bush administration and the Neo-Cons to justify a war against Iraq?

Think as you will.....Do I really need to rehash the various reasons of WHY we are there or WHY we are fighting a war on terror?
Do you think President's Bush Adminstration is any less truthful than the previous adminstration?

How would you fight the terrs? Please don't tell me soley in Afghanistan!!!
REMEMBER WHO STARTED THE WAR WITH US!!!

Use all the shouting caps you want... We are not fighting the war against terrorism when bin Laden releases new tapes
that still mock us, and we are almost powerless to pursue him because our
stretched resources that were not "supposed" to be, by our crack (smoking) administration "tacticians", still hanging around in Iraq.
Osama bin Laden is responsible for the attack on us, not Saddam. Those who still believe that the real war on terror is being fought in Iraq
don't read, listen or believe anything that the bipartisan 9/11 commission concluded was baseless. Or they just watch Fox News...
We have a President who is mired in conspiracy and incompetence, with charges pending that make Watergate look soft, and yet
some of you can only think of "what will all this cost me?".
Give me a break.

You got your tax break, and then you got your war.
Be prepared to pay the piper.

[flyboy55]

. . .
What is the choice to vote for A left wing socialist that wants to spend more of MY MONEY on social programs . . .

There is no left wing socialist option in this country. If you think the Democrats are the left wing socialist option then you need to get out more (out of the country that is). You need to go further left on the political spectrum than the Democrats if you want to get something that citizens of other industrialized countries would recognize as left wing socialist. The Democrats are actually very centrist or center-right. True progressives in this country have no viable political representation (yet!).

As far as taxes go, it was the Republicans under Reagan/Bush I that took the national debt to record highs by running huge budget deficits caused in part by large tax cuts at the same time as, among other things, large military expenditures. Program spending for entitlements was actually reduced under Reagan so don't blame it on social programs.

Under Clinton, this situation was reversed somewhat, with the growth of the national debt slowed because of increasingly large budget surpluses produced under the Clinton administration. Things were in good shape financially when he left office.

Bush II has done the same as Reagan which shouldn't surprise anyone because most of his administration were/are Reagan leftovers. Large increases in military spending (Iraq is just part of it) coupled with unsustainable tax cuts that favor Bush's political base, have led once again to huge budget deficits.

These are historical facts that are part of the public record and as such are beyond dispute.

In summary, it seems to be the Republicans that run the country into deeper and deeper debt, interrupted once in a while by Democrats who get blamed for it as "Tax-and-spend-Liberals" and have to clean up the mess.

Cheers.

[Sam]

BTW the reason we are in the war is because of the conduct of the previous adminstration's 8 year reign of shame and the inactions taken by it, that led us to it.

but the Gulf War was before Clinton

YES Gulf War I DID OCCUR BEFORE CLINTON......HOWEVER THE "AFTERSHOCKS /AFTER EFFECTS" DID TAKE PLACE WHILE HE WAS IN OFFCE. His lack of response to those "after effects", led us to our current situation.

I thought the "cause" of our current situation was the Treasonous lies told by the Bush administration and the Neo-Cons to justify a war against Iraq?

Think as you will.....Do I really need to rehash the various reasons of WHY we are there or WHY we are fighting a war on terror?
Do you think President's Bush Adminstration is any less truthful than the previous adminstration?

How would you fight the terrs? Please don't tell me soley in Afghanistan!!!
REMEMBER WHO STARTED THE WAR WITH US!!!

Use all the shouting caps you want... We are not fighting the war against terrorism when bin Laden releases new tapes
that still mock us, and we are almost powerless to pursue him because our
stretched resources that were not "supposed", by our crack (smoking) administration, still be in Iraq.
He is responsible for the attack on us, not Saddam. Those who still believe that the real war on terror is being fought in Iraq don't read, listen or believe anything that the bipartisan 9/11 commission concluded was baseless.
We have a President who is mired in conspiracy and incompetence, with charges pending that make Watergate look soft, and yet some of you can only think of "what will will cost me?".
Give me a break.

You got your tax break, and then you got your war.
Be prepared to pay the piper.

You are welome to believe as you will and as you choose.

Care to say that for every Iraqi Citizen BEFORE the removal of Saddam?
Beleieve as you will or choose about President, that is clearly your choice to do so.

I thank you, and for letting us know where you stand and for backing and supporting the enemy and their beliefs of America does not have the stomach for a long and drawn out war.

Perhaps you have a better way to fight the war on terror, if you do, by all means tell us... that is IF you want the U.S. and Coalition forces to win.

Perhaos you would nuke Afghanistan or Saudi for the attack on us on 911?

Just HOW would YOU have the war on terror fought ?

[Lightning Bolt]

BTW the reason we are in the war is because of the conduct of the previous adminstration's 8 year reign of shame and the inactions taken by it, that led us to it.

but the Gulf War was before Clinton

YES Gulf War I DID OCCUR BEFORE CLINTON......HOWEVER THE "AFTERSHOCKS /AFTER EFFECTS" DID TAKE PLACE WHILE HE WAS IN OFFCE. His lack of response to those "after effects", led us to our current situation.

I thought the "cause" of our current situation was the Treasonous lies told by the Bush administration and the Neo-Cons to justify a war against Iraq?

Think as you will.....Do I really need to rehash the various reasons of WHY we are there or WHY we are fighting a war on terror?
Do you think President's Bush Adminstration is any less truthful than the previous adminstration?

How would you fight the terrs? Please don't tell me soley in Afghanistan!!!
REMEMBER WHO STARTED THE WAR WITH US!!!

Use all the shouting caps you want... We are not fighting the war against terrorism when bin Laden releases new tapes
that still mock us, and we are almost powerless to pursue him because our
stretched resources that were not "supposed", by our crack (smoking) administration, still be in Iraq.
He is responsible for the attack on us, not Saddam. Those who still believe that the real war on terror is being fought in Iraq don't read, listen or believe anything that the bipartisan 9/11 commission concluded was baseless.
We have a President who is mired in conspiracy and incompetence, with charges pending that make Watergate look soft, and yet some of you can only think of "what will will cost me?".
Give me a break.

You got your tax break, and then you got your war.
Be prepared to pay the piper.

Care to say that for every Iraqi Citizen BEFORE the removal of Saddam?

They'd say "Life kinda sucked, at least we had almost round-the-clock electricity and clean water".
Honestly, I can't, and we as a nation can't afford to worry about the quality of life of EVERY persecuted soul on this earth. Go talk to a Rwandan, North Korean, etc. etc.....

Beleieve as you will or choose about President, that is clearly your choice to do so.

And it's pretty apparent now that 2 citizens agree with me vs. 1 citizen that would side with you.

I thank you, and for letting us know where you stand and for backing and supporting the enemy and their beliefs of America does not have the stomach for a long and drawn out war.

Whoever else would suggest that I am supporting the enemy by disagreeing with you?
I'll bet most people on these boards wouldn't...

Just HOW would YOU have the war on terror fought ?

Simple. Replace this administration, that you have so forcefully supported, starting with Rumsfeld, and I'm certain progress will come around a heckuva lot quicker.

[Sam]

Just HOW would YOU have the war on terror fought ?

Simple. Replace this administration, that you have so forcefully supported, starting with Rumsfeld, and I'm certain progress will come around a heckuva lot quicker.

You know what it....really doesn't matter. Your answer says abolutely nothing.

How many people cared about the various Iraqis that dissappeared and were tortured? Was thier electrictiy and water more important than the lives lost of those who dissappeared? Surely you are not attempting to be justifying the torture of innocent people.....just so people can have electricity and water......

The people would have runnning water and electricity if not for the terrorists that are there creating problems. I will ask you again...What side are you supporting. Do you really want the U.S. and Coalition Forxes to lose this war just so the Democrats look good?

Is that more important to you than people'a lives?

The Democrats have aqdmitted they have no answer.

So what do you do? Obviously you have only criticism and no answers to offer.

You decide who you want to back and support. Your choice and your Freedom to do so FOR A REASON.

IF you don't have a better way, to fight the war and can only condemn the way it is being fought......You decide who you want to win and who you support and the morale of which side you are backing.

That is clearly up to you and your choice to make........

[Lightning Bolt]

Just HOW would YOU have the war on terror fought ?

Simple. Replace this administration, that you have so forcefully supported, starting with Rumsfeld, and I'm certain progress will come around a heckuva lot quicker.

You know what it....really doesn't matter. Your answer says abolutely nothing.

How many people cared about the various Iraqis that dissappeared and were tortured? Was thier electrictiy and water more important than the lives lost of those who dissappeared? Surely you are not attempting to be justifying the torture of innocent people.....just so people can have electricity and water......

The people would have runnning water and electricity if not for the terrorists that are there creating problems. I will ask you again...What side are you supporting. Do you really want the U.S. and Coalition Forxes to lose this war just so the Democrats look good?

Is that more important to you than people'a lives?

The Democrats have aqdmitted they have no answer.

So what do you do? Obviously you have only criticism and no answers to offer.

You decide who you want to back and support. Your choice and your Freedom to do so FOR A REASON.

IF you don't have a better way, to fight the war and can only condemn the way it is being fought......You decide who you want to win and who you support and the morale of which side you are backing.

That is clearly up to you and your choice to make........

Tell ya' what.. since you offer nothing but open-ended questions,
and since, by bin Laden's lastest message, it's abundantly clear that we HAVEN'T won the war on terror,
(and please do not insult intelligent minds here by insinuating that removing Saddam was a huge step)

how do YOU think we should win the war on terror?

The words, "stay the course" would fit W's mono-syllabic grasp of the situation... can YOU offer anything else more substantive?

[Sam]

Just HOW would YOU have the war on terror fought ?

Simple. Replace this administration, that you have so forcefully supported, starting with Rumsfeld, and I'm certain progress will come around a heckuva lot quicker.

You know what it....really doesn't matter. Your answer says abolutely nothing.

How many people cared about the various Iraqis that dissappeared and were tortured? Was thier electrictiy and water more important than the lives lost of those who dissappeared? Surely you are not attempting to be justifying the torture of innocent people.....just so people can have electricity and water......

The people would have runnning water and electricity if not for the terrorists that are there creating problems. I will ask you again...What side are you supporting. Do you really want the U.S. and Coalition Forxes to lose this war just so the Democrats look good?

Is that more important to you than people'a lives?

The Democrats have aqdmitted they have no answer.

So what do you do? Obviously you have only criticism and no answers to offer.

You decide who you want to back and support. Your choice and your Freedom to do so FOR A REASON.

IF you don't have a better way, to fight the war and can only condemn the way it is being fought......You decide who you want to win and who you support and the morale of which side you are backing.

That is clearly up to you and your choice to make........

Tell ya' what.. since you offer nothing but open-ended questions,
and since, by bin Laden's lastest message, it's abundantly clear that we HAVEN'T won the war on terror,
(and please do not insult intelligent minds here by insinuating that removing Saddam was a huge step)

The words, "stay the course" would fit W's mono-syllabic grasp of the situation... can YOU offer anything else more substantive?

Obviously we have not won the war on terror YET as it is ongoing......

Would you concede the war at this point and give in to the terrorists and allow them victory???

I asked you first.... you provided no answer. You are so quick to condemn the way it is being fought.....offer solutions and better answers if you think this way is so terrible. COME ON now , you know so much about how the war should not be fought....tell us how it should be fought.

We are listening for your tactics and details and how lives could be spared and saved. So by all mean tell us.

Would you think it so terrible if a democrat were leading this war??? Would youfeel that democrat was a" Moron" too? Or is your opinion solely based upon it being a Republican and that Republican being President George Bush?

You answer my question THEN I will be more than happy to answer yours.