Man with 12 nails in skull complains of headache

[Hoosier PH]

All I can say is wow!!!

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/04/21/nail.gun.ap/index.html

PORTLAND, Oregon (AP) -- An Oregon man who went to a hospital complaining of a headache was found to have 12 nails embedded in his skull from a suicide attempt with a nail gun, doctors say.

Surgeons removed the nails with needle-nosed pliers and a drill, and the man survived with no serious lasting effects, according to a report on the medical oddity in the current issue of the Journal of Neurosurgery.

The unidentified 33-year-old man was suicidal and high on methamphetamine last year when he fired the nails -- up to 2 inches in length -- into his head one by one.

The nails were not visible when doctors first examined the man in the emergency room of an unidentified Oregon hospital a day later. Doctors were surprised when X-rays revealed six nails clustered between his right eye and ear, two below his right ear and four on the left side of his head.

The study did not say how long the nails were, and a hospital spokeswoman refused to release that information. A photo published in the study suggests the nails range from 1 1/2 to 2 inches long.

No one before is known to have survived after intentionally firing so many foreign objects into the head, according to the report, written by Dr. G. Alexander West, the neurosurgeon who oversaw the treatment of the patient.

The man at first told doctors he had had a nail gun accident, but later admitted it was a suicide attempt.

The nails came close to major blood vessels and the brain stem but did not pierce them. The patient was in remarkably good condition when he was transferred to Oregon Health & Science University in Portland, where the nails were removed.

The patient was later transferred to psychiatric care and stayed under court order for nearly a month before leaving against doctors' orders.

[PalmTreeGal]

wow......just wow......

[Soraya]

The patient was later transferred to psychiatric care and stayed under court order for nearly a month

Well, this part was a no brainer.

before leaving against doctors' orders.

Wouldn't he be considered a danger to himself....at the very least?

[ph4ever]

The patient was later transferred to psychiatric care and stayed under court order for nearly a month

Well, this part was a no brainer.

before leaving against doctors' orders.

Wouldn't he be considered a danger to himself....at the very least?

In most states once you have completed the terms of the court order - ie done your treatment at the hospital you are allowed to leave, even if ADA.

Might still be a danger to himself but if he were kept any longer against his will - unless by court order, whouldn't that constitute illegal imprisonment?? After all, mental health patients have rights too.

[Soraya]

In most states once you have completed the terms of the court order - ie done your treatment at the hospital you are allowed to leave, even if ADA.

Might still be a danger to himself but if he were kept any longer against his will - unless by court order, whouldn't that constitute illegal imprisonment?? After all, mental health patients have rights too.

Where did I imply that mental health patients didn't have rights?

I think society also has a responsiblity, however, to help those that are having these issues as much as possible. It's a fine line, but if someone is having issues (drugs or otherwise) so that putting 12 nails into his head sounds like a good idea, it's probably going to take more then a month of treatment.

[ph4ever]

In most states once you have completed the terms of the court order - ie done your treatment at the hospital you are allowed to leave, even if ADA.

Might still be a danger to himself but if he were kept any longer against his will - unless by court order, whouldn't that constitute illegal imprisonment?? After all, mental health patients have rights too.

Where did I imply that mental health patients didn't have rights?

I think society also has a responsiblity, however, to help those that are having these issues as much as possible. It's a fine line, but if someone is having issues (drugs or otherwise) so that putting 12 nails into his head sounds like a good idea, it's probably going to take more then a month of treatment.

First I never said you implied that they don't have rights. What I am stating is that the laws vary from state to state. I know that in my home state the required stay after an attempted suicide is 72 hours and you've got that time to get a mental health warrant to hold them longer. If the attempted suicide occurs on Friday (and it's harder to obtain the mental health warrant over a weekend) by the time you could get to court to obtain a mental health warrant the patient had walked because they were there for the required stay.

My ex sister in law had mental problems and attempted suicide 5 times while I was with her brother. Now I realize the "attempts" and not doing enough harm to herself were a serious cry for help. Do I agree with the laws - not necessarily. But because of the ex sil I found out the workings of the mental health laws in my state. In many towns people with serious mental issues walk around un-medicated because they know the laws too.

Unfortunately because of the past abuses in the mental health industry I sometimes feel the laws have changed so drastically in favor of patient's rights that yes sometimes the public safety is put aside. But when you consider how horriable the mental health industry treated patients in the somewhat recent past it is understandable. It's time for the laws to be reviewed and changed, if necessary, to insue that the patient gets the help needed without violation of their rights. Heck in some states the homeless go without their meds because of all the problems in obtaining psychiactric meds when you are homeless.

But still the fact remains that if the patient stayed in the psych ward for the required stay as indicated by the warrant then unless the court orders longer stay the patient does have the right to walk and that's the law - dosn't matter if their treatment is complete or not.

[ragtopW]

Crack don't smoke itself

[Elrod]

But still the fact remains that if the patient stayed in the psych ward for the required stay as indicated by the warrant then unless the court orders longer stay the patient does have the right to walk and that's the law - dosn't matter if their treatment is complete or not.

Exactly. The treatment plan doesn't always match the length of stay.

I got very familiar with Missouri's mental health system when I was a paramedic.

A 96-hour emergency hospitalization could be ordered by a doctor if the patient was a danger to themselves.

Hospitalization beyond that had to be court ordered or voluntary. Most court ordered confinements were in steps of 30 days, 90 days, one year and indefinite. Sometimes the 90 day confinement hearings resulted in an order for electric shock therapy.

Many patients volunteered for the next course of treatment instead of fighting it in court, because they knew they could leave any time they wanted...

[ph4ever]

Crack don't smoke itself

no but it does cause people to become mental

[ragtopW]

Crack don't smoke itself

no but it does cause people to become mental

true.
but I have two questions and I am not being smart or trying to start a
fight.

A is it automatic that a person who wants to commit suicide
has mental health issues?


B. UH I forgot B I will get back to you.

[ph4ever]

Crack don't smoke itself

no but it does cause people to become mental

true.
but I have two questions and I am not being smart or trying to start a
fight.

A is it automatic that a person who wants to commit suicide
has mental health issues?


B. UH I forgot B I will get back to you.

Legally?? I think it depends on the state laws and their interpretations. Do I think everyone who attempts suicide mental - not in all cases. But some dumbass that does it with a nail gun is definately not playing with a full deck. Hell if you want to off yourself in the head try a freaking gun.

[ragtopW]

Crack don't smoke itself

no but it does cause people to become mental

true.
but I have two questions and I am not being smart or trying to start a
fight.

A is it automatic that a person who wants to commit suicide
has mental health issues?


B. UH I forgot B I will get back to you.

Legally?? I think it depends on the state laws and their interpretations. Do I think everyone who attempts suicide mental - not in all cases. But some dumbass that does it with a nail gun is definately not playing with a full deck. Hell if you want to off yourself in the head try a freaking gun.

thanks I was just wondering ..


and you did not answer B..

[Elrod]

A is it automatic that a person who wants to commit suicide has mental health issues?

If the patient expresses suicidal ideations and has the means to carry them out (even though the attempt was unsuccessful), they are usually hospitalized for further evaluation.

[ph4ever]

A is it automatic that a person who wants to commit suicide has mental health issues?

If the patient expresses suicidal ideations and has the means to carry them out (even though the attempt was unsuccessful), they are usually hospitalized for further evaluation.

yea in my ex sil's case she knew how to work the doctors during her evaluation period that they would say she's ok now

That's how in the heck a young person (she was in her early 20's at the time) that is an alcholic bulemic drug user with suicidal tendacies that was sexually molested as a toddler not have issues that need to be addressed by someone in the mental health industry can coast thru the system.

The mental health industry is like jail for some in that once you go thru it a few times you learn how to "work the system" and for some, that unfortunately do need help, the "working the system" becomes a fine art and a game.

[Quiet and Shy]

One also has to keep in mind that the suicide attempt occurred several months before he sought medical treatment...I mean, they couldn't even tell why his head hurt until he had an x-ray.

So, treatment was probably judged from the point of medical treatment vs. the point the self-injury was inflicted.

[flipflopgirl]

OOOOOOWWWWWWW! That had to hurt!!! I have never seen anything like that in the ER I work in!!!!!! That xray was unbelievable! In NJ we have screeners that determine a persons competency. Mental health admissions take a lot of work and time to get someone admitted!!!!