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The balance of power...does it still exist?

Posted: April 30, 2006 1:01 pm
by Quiet and Shy
This was in today's Indy Star http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a ... 00462/1012 and I confess it makes me very, very uncomfortable. I've been concerned with some of the international policy which seems to reflect this behavior, but I really took note of this with his remarks around selectively following the no torture law. I'd be interested to see a non-partisan comparison between what Bush has done and the actions of other presidents in regards to this. And if Bush really is way out of line...how does he get reigned back in? (Where's the judicial branch on this?) This balance of power is the critical condition which separates democracy from dictatorships....

President claims power to disregard 750 statutes
Over time, Bush has said he's not bound by laws he deems unconstitutional


By Charlie Savage
The Boston Globe
WASHINGTON -- President Bush has quietly claimed the authority to disobey more than 750 laws enacted since he took office, asserting he has the power to set aside any statute passed by Congress when it conflicts with his interpretation of the Constitution.

Among the laws Bush said he can ignore are military rules and regulations, affirmative-action provisions, requirements that Congress be told about immigration-services problems, whistle-blower protections for nuclear regulatory officials, and safeguards against political interference in federally funded research.

Legal scholars say the scope and aggression of Bush's assertions that he can bypass laws represent a concerted effort to expand his power at the expense of Congress, upsetting the balance between the branches of government.

The Constitution is clear in assigning to Congress the power to write the laws and to the president a duty "to take care that the laws be faithfully executed." Bush, however, has repeatedly declared he does not need to "execute" a law he believes is unconstitutional.

Former administration officials contend that just because Bush reserves the right to disobey a law does not mean he is not enforcing it: In many cases, he is simply asserting his belief that a certain requirement encroaches on presidential power.

But with the disclosure of Bush's domestic spying program, in which he ignored a law requiring warrants to tap the phones of Americans, many legal specialists say Bush is hardly reluctant to bypass laws he believes he has the constitutional authority to override.

Far more than any predecessor, Bush has been aggressive about declaring his right to ignore vast swaths of laws -- many of which he says infringe on power he believes the Constitution assigns to him alone as the head of the executive branch or the commander in chief of the military.

Many legal scholars say they believe that Bush's theory about his own powers goes too far and he is seizing for himself some of the lawmaking role of Congress and the Constitution-interpreting role of the courts.

Phillip Cooper, a Portland State University law professor who has studied the executive-power claims Bush made during his first term, said Bush and his legal team have spent the past five years quietly working to concentrate ever more governmental power into the White House.

"There is no question that this administration has been involved in a very carefully thought out, systematic process of expanding presidential power at the expense of the other branches of government," Cooper said. "This is really big, very expansive and very significant."

For the first five years of Bush's presidency, his legal claims attracted little attention in Congress or the media. Then, twice in recent months, Bush drew scrutiny after challenging new laws: a torture ban and a requirement that he give detailed reports to Congress about how he is using the Patriot Act.

Bush administration spokesmen declined to make White House or Justice Department attorneys available to discuss any of Bush's challenges to the laws he has signed.

Instead, they referred a Globe reporter to their response to questions about Bush's position that he could ignore provisions of the Patriot Act. They said at the time that Bush was following a practice that has "been used for several administrations" and that "the president will faithfully execute the law in a manner that is consistent with the Constitution."

But the words "in a manner that is consistent with the Constitution" are the catch, legal scholars say, because Bush is according himself the ultimate interpretation of the Constitution. And he is quietly exercising that authority to a degree that is unprecedented in U.S. history.

Bush is the first president in modern history who has never vetoed a bill, giving Congress no chance to override his judgments. Instead, he has signed every bill that reached his desk, often inviting the legislation's sponsors to signing ceremonies at which he lavishes praise upon their work.

Then, after the media and the lawmakers have left the White House, Bush quietly files "signing statements" -- official documents in which a president lays out his legal interpretation of a bill for the federal bureaucracy to follow when implementing the new law. The statements are recorded in the Federal Register.

In his signing statements, Bush has repeatedly asserted that the Constitution gives him the right to ignore numerous sections of the bills -- sometimes including provisions that were the subject of negotiations with Congress in order to get lawmakers to pass the bill. He has appended such statements to more than one of every 10 bills he has signed.

Posted: April 30, 2006 1:37 pm
by Coconuts
Yikes! And that's from an Indiana paper- even our Democrats are Republicans!!!

We only have 2 more years to go, and I'm pretty sure the rest of the party's just about had it with him (along with most of the public), and now that this is coming to light, I think we're about to see a work stoppage in Congress.

Posted: April 30, 2006 2:19 pm
by krusin1
Coconuts wrote:Yikes! And that's from an Indiana paper- even our Democrats are Republicans!!!

We only have 2 more years to go, and I'm pretty sure the rest of the party's just about had it with him (along with most of the public), and now that this is coming to light, I think we're about to see a work stoppage in Congress.
This "article" sounds like an editorial or opinion piece thinly disguised as news to me.

Lot of Bush-bashers in the press (even in Indiana,) but I'm not sure I'd agree that "most of the public" has had it with him. Yes, I read the polls, too, but low poll numbers aren't the same as being ready to turn him totally out of office. Even with polls in the tank, I've not met anyone that voted for Bush but now wish they had voted for Kerry.

Just my 2 cents. :wink:

Posted: April 30, 2006 4:03 pm
by Quiet and Shy
Just went and read the original version from the Boston Globe http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washi ... ws/?page=1 because I was wondering why there wasn't more mention of where the judiciary is on this. Here are a couple more pieces that weren't in the Indy version:

Prior presidents and this practice (which basically originated in the mid-1980's):

George HW Bush (4 years) 232 statutes challenged
Bill Clinton (8 years) 140 challenges
George W Bush (5+ years) 750+ challenges


Re. the judicial silence on this practice:

And in many cases, critics contend, there is no way to know whether the administration is violating laws -- or merely preserving the right to do so.

Many of the laws Bush has challenged involve national security, where it is almost impossible to verify what the government is doing. And since the disclosure of Bush's domestic spying program, many people have expressed alarm about his sweeping claims of the authority to violate laws.


A summarizing quote:

Bruce Fein, a deputy attorney general in the Reagan administration, said the American system of government relies upon the leaders of each branch ''to exercise some self-restraint." But Bush has declared himself the sole judge of his own powers, he said, and then ruled for himself every time.

''This is an attempt by the president to have the final word on his own constitutional powers, which eliminates the checks and balances that keep the country a democracy," Fein said. ''There is no way for an independent judiciary to check his assertions of power, and Congress isn't doing it, either. So this is moving us toward an unlimited executive power."


Sorry folks, but this just really scares me.... It isn't about democrat or republican; it's about freedom. And who knows where we'll be after two+ more years.... :-?

Posted: April 30, 2006 4:36 pm
by Lundah
Makes people like Russ Feingold (Senator from Wisconsin, and hopefully the next President) seem not so crazy after all, doesn't it? Guys like Russ have been calling out Bush on crap like this since day one, and they are called traitors; I disagree, I think trying to hold your government accountable for it's mistakes is one of the most patriotic things a man can do.

Posted: April 30, 2006 11:28 pm
by Drumkat
Lundah wrote:Makes people like Russ Feingold (Senator from Wisconsin, and hopefully the next President) seem not so crazy after all, doesn't it? Guys like Russ have been calling out Bush on crap like this since day one, and they are called traitors; I disagree, I think trying to hold your government accountable for it's mistakes is one of the most patriotic things a man can do.
yes well in this new land of ours under the Patriot Act, you CAN disapear for those actions. I personally know someone who this happend to for over a month.

And about "no one who voted for Bush saying they'd wished they had voted for Kerry"-- I've NEVER know a Republican to admit they were wrong on anything, period. Why shuold this be different? The ULTIMATE SIN.

I personally hate politcs, politicians and the whole scam process. Money talks for all of them. Thats why there are thousands of BIG money lobbiest in washington that own our government. Government dose NOT make the laws, Corporations do and have for years now. If you disagree with that, you live in a bubble. Please, let me in. :cry:

Posted: May 4, 2006 5:10 pm
by The Lost Manatee
I have always been bothered by the fact that Andrew Jackson chose not enforce selected laws or judgments rendered by the US Supreme Court and I note that many legal scholars have condemned his actions over the centuries.

Now we have a President who has decided that he will decide which laws to enforce, which is a violation of his oath of office, if not the letter of it, certainly the spirit of it. This is a troubling behavior and if you think it's because I'm a liberal, try thinking of this from another perspective, what would Hilary do with the same unchecked powers! A number of conservatives, including George Wills are troubled by the Imperial Presidency and equally troubled that Congress has rolled over and relinquished its duty to maintain a check on the Executive branch of our government.

I do believe that the President is violating a variety of laws and I believe that he thinks he is within his rights to do so as the commander in chief however I must disagree with him on this on several counts. First, we are not in a state of war since one has not been declared and therefore the President cannot use war powers as an excuse. Secondly, the Constitution does not say that the President can pick and choose what laws are valid. He can chose not to enforce laws but he cannot legally chose to break laws. If he does so, he can be impeached for "high crimes and misdoemeaners" just as Bill Clinton was. If you accept the argument that the President can break or set aside laws then why was Bill Clinton impeached or why was Richard Nixon about to be or Andrew Johnson?

It is very troubling to me that people aren't more upset about American citizens being held without access to legal council and without being charged with a crime simply by declaring them either a material witness or an enemy combantant. To me this is one of the greatest threats to our rights and security since this how many totalitarian regimes work. They show up in the middle of the night, haul someone off and that person is never heard from again. This shouldn't be happening here, not in America.

We, the people, need to speak up and take action to preserve our rights.

Posted: May 4, 2006 9:14 pm
by krusin1
The Lost Manatee wrote:I
It is very troubling to me

(snip)

We, the people, need to speak up and take action to preserve our rights.
No offense, but y'all are worrying about the window treatments while the house is on fire.

We ARE at war. They declared it on 9/11/01. And you can't limit the identification of the "enemy" to "just Al Quaeda" or some other neat, precise box that lets you rail against war in Iraq as unncecessary.

We are at war with a system of beliefs that declares terror is the way to get things done, and that everyday citizens are legitimate targets.

Thanks to our efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq, there are fewer of them alive now than then, and by staying in or going to Iraq, they're putting themselves right where we've got the firepower necessary to deal with them.

This is going to be a long, difficult but necessary struggle. No matter how good a feelings you have, you CANNOT reason with a person who will kill you if they can reach their suicide vest. The only way to persuade them is to make them dead.

Posted: May 4, 2006 9:23 pm
by Wino you know
krusin1 wrote:No offense, but y'all are worrying about the window treatments while the house is on fire.

We ARE at war. They declared it on 9/11/01. And you can't limit the identification of the "enemy" to "just Al Quaeda" or some other neat, precise box that lets you rail against war in Iraq as unncecessary.

We are at war with a system of beliefs that declares terror is the way to get things done, and that everyday citizens are legitimate targets.

Thanks to our efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq, there are fewer of them alive now than then, and by staying in or going to Iraq, they're putting themselves right where we've got the firepower necessary to deal with them.

This is going to be a long, difficult but necessary struggle. No matter how good a feelings you have, you CANNOT reason with a person who will kill you if they can reach their suicide vest. The only way to persuade them is to make them dead.
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