Use force or use reason?

green1 · Post by **green1** » July 25, 2006 10:48 am

I have been following, and throwing in tidbits on, one of the threads here and it seems to me that there are two schools of thought being expressed there. Use force against the person in question or reason with the person to get them to change their behavior.

This strikes at the heart of our interpersonal, intracultural and intrenational relationships. How do we as a person and then as a people resolve conflict. Can we simply speak with the other person and get them to change their mind? Or is force, either implied (as in Teddy R's speak softly and carry a big stick) or overt, as in Israel's response to Hezbollah, required?

My belief is that reason only works if both sides are willing and capable of reasoned discussion. If that fails, force of one degree or another is required.

Thoughts?

sy · Post by sy » July 25, 2006 10:56 am

green1 wrote:My belief is that reason only works if both sides are willing and capable of reasoned discussion. If that fails, force of one degree or another is required.

I agree completely. Trying to reason with a person who is incapable or unwilling to listen or care, and the situation is unavoidable or harmful, then I completely agree that force may be required.

Sadly, there are those out there that simply don't understand any other way, and one can not always 'just walk away from a situation' be it because of the right thing to do or personal safety.

rednekkPH · Post by **rednekkPH** » July 25, 2006 10:59 am

I agree. Always try to reason first. But if that fails, ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

krusin1 · Post by **krusin1** » July 25, 2006 11:07 am

rednekkPH wrote:I agree. Always try to reason first. But if that fails, ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Exactly. There is a time and place for each. Reason first. If that doesn't work, and the issue truly is vital (for safety or security, or ??) then the use of force may, in fact, be the only truly moral course.

(Yes, I said it... use of force may be the only truly morally upright course of action.

)

Cubbie Bear · Post by **Cubbie Bear** » July 25, 2006 12:52 pm

reasonable Force

btw, your use of big words hurt my head

SharkOnLand · Post by **SharkOnLand** » July 25, 2006 1:00 pm

What category would psychological warfare fall under?

flyboy55 · Post by **flyboy55** » July 25, 2006 1:05 pm

SharkOnLand wrote:What category would psychological warfare fall under?

depends - is it reasonable?

El mojito · Post by **El mojito** » July 25, 2006 1:08 pm

My belief is that reason only works if both sides are willing and capable of reasoned discussion. If that fails, force of one degree or another is required.
So...... does this mean we can drop a bomb on them

or slap with a rolled up news paper with the "editorial" side out

balcony girls · Post by **balcony girls** » July 25, 2006 1:09 pm

green1 wrote:I have been following, and throwing in tidbits on, one of the threads here and it seems to me that there are two schools of thought being expressed there. Use force against the person in question or reason with the person to get them to change their behavior.

Thoughts?

. .I guess because of a Talk Radio show I was listening to this morning . .

. .but , would this also apply to our initial prognosis/treatment of Child Molesters . . ? /

. .reason . . as in rehab . . ? ? . .or force . .? ? . .as in " one strike and you are OUT " . . ? ?

Wino you know · Post by **Wino you know** » July 25, 2006 1:14 pm

NUKE THE BAST--DS.

green1 · Post by **green1** » July 25, 2006 1:31 pm

El mojito wrote:My belief is that reason only works if both sides are willing and capable of reasoned discussion. If that fails, force of one degree or another is required.
So...... does this mean we can drop a bomb on them or slap with a rolled up news paper with the "editorial" side out

Which would work? If the newspaper works than that is sufficient force. If they continue to lob missles in Haifa than maybe dropping bombs is the only alternative.

green1 · Post by **green1** » July 25, 2006 1:36 pm

balcony girls wrote:. .I guess because of a Talk Radio show I was listening to this morning . .

. .but , would this also apply to our initial prognosis/treatment of Child Molesters . . ? /

. .reason . . as in rehab . . ? ? . .or force . .? ? . .as in " one strike and you are OUT " . . ? ?

From what I have read child molesters are the most likely, of all antisocial behaviors, to do it again. To me, this falls under the part where you can only reason with someone who is capable of reasonable thoughts. This shortcircuit in their minds prevents reasonable dialog as they do not see anything wrong with this activity. So why stop? This is when, I believe, force must be applied. The force of our society has been to lock them up.

green1 · Post by **green1** » July 25, 2006 1:39 pm

SharkOnLand wrote:What category would psychological warfare fall under?

Force. Reason implies that both sides are willing to communicate and sort through their differences. Pschological warfare is used to demoralize the enemy.

balcony girls · Post by **balcony girls** » July 25, 2006 1:40 pm

green1 wrote: From what I have read child molesters are the most likely, of all antisocial behaviors, to do it again. To me, this falls under the part where you can only reason with someone who is capable of reasonable thoughts. This shortcircuit in their minds prevents reasonable dialog as they do not see anything wrong with this activity. So why stop? This is when, I believe, force must be applied. The force of our society has been to lock them up.

. .good answer . .and well put. . ! !

. .I agree. .

phjrsaunt · Post by **phjrsaunt** » July 25, 2006 2:29 pm

Give them a flower. And a puppy.

Wino you know · Post by **Wino you know** » July 25, 2006 2:39 pm

Wino you know wrote:NUKE THE BAST--DS.

I agree.

green1 · Post by **green1** » July 25, 2006 2:50 pm

Wino you know wrote:
Wino you know wrote:NUKE THE BAST--DS.
I agree.

rednekkPH · Post by **rednekkPH** » July 25, 2006 2:53 pm

phjrsaunt wrote:Give them a flower. And a puppy.

Can it be a stuffed puppy, full of explosives?

Wino you know · Post by **Wino you know** » July 25, 2006 2:53 pm

Thanks, greenie.
Once again, I thought I was talking to the utility pole outside.
Thanks for letting me know my computer DOESN'T need to be taken back to the shop.

green1 · Post by **green1** » July 25, 2006 3:00 pm

Wino you know wrote:Thanks, greenie.
Once again, I thought I was talking to the utility pole outside.
Thanks for letting me know my computer DOESN'T need to be taken back to the shop.

No problem. Although your first post was so to the point that I didn't think I needed to add anything. But your second just got me chuckling.

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