Advice from parents, Re: Potty training and discipline

buffettbride · Post by **buffettbride** » August 23, 2006 10:22 pm

Ok. Parrotheads are also some of my favorite parents, so here goes.

My son who is 2 1/2 has been potty training for several months. He's finally staying dry at naps and all day long. He has been wearing underwear regularly for 6 months. It has gone extremely well, and he has taken to the whole potty thing very well. He has accidents here and there, but very infrequently, and we always handle it by reminding him to use the potty, and just getting a fresh change of clothes on right away.

Well, today at day care, there was an "incident." He goes to an in-home day care where a lady we've always just loved watches him and a handful of other children. We have always been extremely pleased. She's firm, yet truly loves the kids. However, her hours aren't all that great, and don't accomodate our busy working schedules very well. We've tolerated the poor hours for two years because we like her so much--meaning we've driven 2 cars downtown every day so that one of us could drop him off in the morning and the other picks him up in the afternoon. Recently, we made the decision Tony was ready for a real preschool environment and enrolled him in Montessori which starts in two weeks. We gave her more than a month's notice because, well, it was the respectful thing to do.

Since we told her we were leaving (and we assured her it was only because our work schedules had become more demanding--not because of the care she provides--which is all true), Tony has been acting up more and more. Maybe he can sense the changes coming, and well, he's 2 1/2 and definitely acts it. Some days are easy, other days are tough, but we've never had problems with potty training.

Well, today when hubby picked Tony up, she said she gave him a Time-Out for pooping his pants because she said he did it on purpose, just to make her mad. Now, not to say this isn't true, but every bit of parenting advice I've ever read or heard is that children should not be punished for potty-related things--especially one as ambiguous as a day care provider thinking he pooped in his pants just to make her mad. My feeling (as well as hubby's) is that she is the adult and should be the bigger person about it. He had been having attitude all day, and I think she was at her wits end with him in general (she's actually quite a moody person so if she's having a "day" it's very obvious).

So, anyway, what are all y'alls thoughts on this? I'm going to bring it up with her tomorrow when I drop Tony off. Hubby didn't think it warranted a phone call at home this evening, but I'm wondering how much effort I should put into addressing this when his last day there is a week from this Friday.

If you've made it this far through my story, please share your thoughts (and thanks for 'listening')!

Dezdmona · Post by **Dezdmona** » August 23, 2006 10:33 pm

he did it on purpose, just to make her mad

Speaking as a licensed psychotherapist (specializing in children)....

No one who has yet to develop abstract thinking poops to make someone mad.

You have a problem with philosophy.

She is taking something between your child's personality and potty training personally.

Post by **SMLCHNG** » August 23, 2006 10:40 pm

Speaking as a NON-professional... that's just ridiculous, IMHO, that a 2 year old has enough thought rationalization that they would poop just to p*** off someone.

He may just be feeling out of sorts and can pick up on the feelings of the babysitter and you two, so he reacts in ways he normally wouldn't.

I'd probably see how the next few days go, and if there are more problems? Then say something.. I'd hold off for just one incident.

Good luck Mal & Matt!

jimolliemom · Post by **jimolliemom** » August 23, 2006 10:47 pm

Sounds like the day care provider needed a reality check. MOST 2 year olds (mine included) don't think about potty and making people mad at the same time. Popping their pants and feeling yucky and not wanting to stop playing to change, yes, they think like that. Not how mad someone will be at them. Mollie actually got VERY upset at herself if she messed up her "Princess panties" and therefore, hardly ever had an accident. Jim, on the other hand, was 5 before he was totally pooped trained and he has a mega colon...poor baby...anyhow, I'm glad to hear Tony is going to "Big boy school"...that will be so much fun for him! I'd remind the lady that time out wasn't what he needed for an accident. Clean pants and a hug is what he needs!!

(((TONY and Mal)))

Mr Play · Post by **Mr Play** » August 23, 2006 11:53 pm

Rub his nose in it and give him a spanking. That should teach him

Yes I'm kidding - I wouldn't worry about it too much. Accidents happen, even in the bathtub when you least expect it

PalmTreeGal · Post by **PalmTreeGal** » August 24, 2006 1:05 am

It's interesting that this was posted b/c i'm having a poo issue with my over 4 yo keet. He goes #1 in the potty great. he stays dry during sleep time and only has an occasional accident. But the poo, he refuses to go in the potty. He knows when he needs to go b/c he goes and hides (which I usually miss) to poo in his pants. He has gone poo twice in the potty. I'm at my wits end. i think he does it on purpose. I think it's a control thing with him.

I wish I had some advice for you. I need some advice myself (sorry to hijack the thread). I have been thinking about posting myself just b/c i have run out of ideas on what to do.

buffettbride · Post by **buffettbride** » August 24, 2006 7:47 am

Mr Play wrote: Yes I'm kidding - I wouldn't worry about it too much. Accidents happen, even in the bathtub when you least expect it

I'm not worried about the accidents. They happen and it's no big deal (no matter how frustrating of a day I've had).

My problem is with my day care provider giving him a time-out for pooping his pants because she thinks he did it on purpose to make her mad.

buffettbride · Post by **buffettbride** » August 24, 2006 7:48 am

PalmTreeGal wrote:
I wish I had some advice for you. I need some advice myself (sorry to hijack the thread). I have been thinking about posting myself just b/c i have run out of ideas on what to do.

I have no idea. I've heard of parents having that problem, so you're not alone.

BN knows way more about how my children go potty than they probably ever wanted.

jimolliemom · Post by **jimolliemom** » August 24, 2006 8:54 am

Hey, Moms are like that...we ALL have hurdles...yours are with popping!

Mine...well...NEVER tell her she's a Princess unless you want her to BELIEVE you!

longlinergirl · Post by **longlinergirl** » August 24, 2006 8:59 am

Mr Play wrote: Accidents happen, even in the bathtub when you least expect it

That only seems to happen with my kid when we are staying at someone's house...I think it may be on purpose

In our child psych class they said not to associate anything bad with potty training nor push kids into it...so I might be a tad upset if someone punished my kid for pooping in his pants.

OceanCityGirl · Post by **OceanCityGirl** » August 24, 2006 9:10 am

Os he required to be fully trained for the montessorri school? Would they take him sooner? If you are uncomfortable with the current provider this might be a good idea. Pay her for the two weeks but switch schools early ahd eat the cost. Or if you think they were both having a bad day then monitor things closely and try to get thru the rest of the time.
You could consider telling your son mommy knows it was an accident. Not sure if that would be appropriate at his age. Tell the provider you are working on occasional accidents and need her cooperation not to discipline for them. 21/2 is still very young esp. for a boy. Alot of boys, mine included take longer then that. I would expect some regressing when you switch schools though.

PalmTreeGal · Post by **PalmTreeGal** » August 24, 2006 9:13 am

longlinergirl wrote:
Mr Play wrote: Accidents happen, even in the bathtub when you least expect it
That only seems to happen with my kid when we are staying at someone's house...I think it may be on purpose

In our child psych class they said not to associate anything bad with potty training nor push kids into it...so I might be a tad upset if someone punished my kid for pooping in his pants.

Maybe that's my problem. I've been revoking his privileges when he poops in his pants. If you're not supposed to punish them, then what do you do about it?

SchoolGirlHeart · Post by **SchoolGirlHeart** » August 24, 2006 9:13 am

I think I would mention it to her, but not make a huge deal out of it because time there is so short....

I don't believe for a second that a two year old poops in his pants on purpose.... he can't think like that yet....

with each of mine, various small stresses (including a change in day care, which is a BIG stress for a kid) caused them to backslide in potty training and have a few accidents. no doubt Tony has picked up on subtle hints that changes are coming, even if he doesn't realize it consciously, and it's affecting his potty training.

even if she does punish him for accidents over the next week (although she SHOULDN'T

) I sorta doubt it will leave permanent scars since he'll be moving on shortly...

SchoolGirlHeart · Post by **SchoolGirlHeart** » August 24, 2006 9:17 am

PalmTreeGal wrote:Maybe that's my problem. I've been revoking his privileges when he poops in his pants. If you're not supposed to punish them, then what do you do about it?

Put a diaper back on him. NOT as a punishment, but explain the fact that he can't be having poop on his big-boy pants, so until he can control the pooping better and make it to the potty, he'll have to wear a diaper for a little longer. Don't buy very many diapers; I suspect the problem will be corrected pretty quickly.

BadHabitsAcctnt · Post by **BadHabitsAcctnt** » August 24, 2006 10:06 am

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:
PalmTreeGal wrote:Maybe that's my problem. I've been revoking his privileges when he poops in his pants. If you're not supposed to punish them, then what do you do about it?
Put a diaper back on him. NOT as a punishment, but explain the fact that he can't be having poop on his big-boy pants, so until he can control the pooping better and make it to the potty, he'll have to wear a diaper for a little longer. Don't buy very many diapers; I suspect the problem will be corrected pretty quickly.

This sounds dangerous, but at this point any suggestions sounds good.

rednekkPH · Post by **rednekkPH** » August 24, 2006 10:10 am

Breeders are funny.

I'll stick with the kids who just scratch on the door when they have to go potty.

RinglingRingling · Post by **RinglingRingling** » August 24, 2006 10:13 am

PalmTreeGal wrote:
longlinergirl wrote:
Mr Play wrote: Accidents happen, even in the bathtub when you least expect it
That only seems to happen with my kid when we are staying at someone's house...I think it may be on purpose

In our child psych class they said not to associate anything bad with potty training nor push kids into it...so I might be a tad upset if someone punished my kid for pooping in his pants.
Maybe that's my problem. I've been revoking his privileges when he poops in his pants. If you're not supposed to punish them, then what do you do about it?

makes you long for the days of cookies and electroshock...

RinglingRingling · Post by **RinglingRingling** » August 24, 2006 10:14 am

rednekkPH wrote: Breeders are funny.

I'll stick with the kids who just scratch on the door when they have to go potty.

you know.. you can get human kids trained to do that too..

SchoolGirlHeart · Post by **SchoolGirlHeart** » August 24, 2006 10:16 am

BadHabitsAcctnt wrote:
SchoolGirlHeart wrote:
PalmTreeGal wrote:Maybe that's my problem. I've been revoking his privileges when he poops in his pants. If you're not supposed to punish them, then what do you do about it?
Put a diaper back on him. NOT as a punishment, but explain the fact that he can't be having poop on his big-boy pants, so until he can control the pooping better and make it to the potty, he'll have to wear a diaper for a little longer. Don't buy very many diapers; I suspect the problem will be corrected pretty quickly.
This sounds dangerous, but at this point any suggestions sounds good.

Or better yet... He's 4, and can converse.... Ask HIM what he thinks he should do to keep his big-boy pants clean. Buy him some way-cool underwear (I have no idea what's cool these days) and tell him he has to keep the poop off (whoever the cool underwear guy is... with mine it was Power Rangers...

) Put him in charge of keeping himself clean and then he has the control he wants.

Hockey Mon · Post by **Hockey Mon** » August 24, 2006 10:17 am

Ah, the joys of potty training. Like everyone else has said, a 2 1/2 yr old doesn't have the cognitive ability to poop in his/her pants just to make someone mad. As we say in our house, accidents happen and that's why they are called "accidents". The day care provider shouldn't have given him a timeout.

Is it worth telling the woman? Seeing as how you have 2 weeks left, I wouldn't have a full blown discussion with her. But, I would want to mention somehow that I'd prefer she did not give my kid a timeout for behavior like that. Sort of a tricky situation.

And, I've got to say kudos to getting your kid trained at 2, especially a boy! My 5 yr old (boy) had the hardest time with it and we've been struggling with the 3 yr old (boy) this summer. I think like most parenting challenges, you need to put on your patience cap and realize the behavior will not last forever.