Pit Bull Terriers

[Lightning Bolt]

I was just reading another thread about the training for a puppy that is a young pit bull already diagnosed with distemper.
This sounds like it could develop to be a potentially dangerous young animal, and while I certainly hope the pup gets proper training,
I am now of the mind that, despite the best intentions of owners, this breed should be banned.

Before you completely incinerate me for this opinion,
let me tell you that I have had a fair amount of contact with pit bull terriers, generally positive, but recently went through a tragic and scary episode with
a friend's family dog, a 6-yr. old Pit female, who went inexplicably bad, and mauled, and nearly killed, my other friend's 3-year old daughter.

The youngster was not engaging the dog at the time of the attack. She was playing on a swing set with her older step-sister, when the dog,
a generally gentle dog that I'd petted a number of times, came from around the backyard and leapt at the child, pulling her by the leg off the swing.
I'm told that the dog menaced at the screaming older child, and continued to bite and clamp on the child's upper shoulder.

The adults by now have come into the scene, and the dog's owner could not call the dog off, so he struck the dog's hindquarters with something hard enough to make the dog let go.
This family lives in the local San Diego mountains, really a country setting, so air ambulance was called in to evacuate the girl to the nearest trauma center,
where her considerable wounds were treated in the ER

The shock, anger and grief overwhelmed the dog owner, who is the little girl's uncle, and he led the dog back behind their barn and shot and killed it right there.
All and all, a very traumatic series of events.
Because of the nature of the attack, and the setting, the dog was taken for an autopsy, but no irregular health conditions were found.

This was earlier this year, around Easter, and I saw the 3-year old Mary Beth just a week or so back. The scars from the 120+ stitches are amazingly well-healed already,
and she doesn't even have fear of other dogs she's seen.
The young are incredibly resilient, but the emotional scars of that day still linger for the rest of the family. They have lost their trust of the Pit Bull breed, and
knowing these people and their otherwise responsible upbringing of the dog, I have now changed my opinion.

I do feel that the breed has an inherent, genetic disposition to erratic behaviour, and there are far too many cases to ignore.
It's one thing to deal with a dog that bites... This can be a breed that kills

[SMLCHNG]

While I've never had anyone friend or family been hurt by a dog of any breed, I'd say that there are some breeds of dogs that have the tendency to be more dangerous than others, a lot depending on how they were raised, too. I believe ALL pet owners should be more responsible for their pets than some do. I had a friend who had two pit bulls, and they were the sweetest dogs I'd have ever been around. Same goes for some friends that had Rottweilers - they were awesome.

[irishcajunphan]

Pit Bulls can be very dangerous, but any dog can be. I've been bitten by poodles, chihuahuas, dachsunds, and cockers. I've had my shoulder separated by labs and bulldogs. I've been pinned in a field by a rottie and run over by a few labs and boxers who used me as a fun thing to knock down in a field. A pit bull needs to have responsible owners and be socialized as much as possible. I don't believe in banning the breed. However, indiscriminate breeding and fighting of the breed have led to serious issues among them being the attacks on people resulting in deaths.

[Moonie]

Distemper has nothing to do with a dogs disposition..

American Bulldogs become basically what you train them to be...

I've seen mean ones, and I've some some that are as gentle as can be...

Same with Rotweillers, Doberman Pinscers, they're American Bulldogs, and have only become dangerous because of dangerous owners...the fact that a Pit's jaw muscles are strong and when they grab hold they don't let go is what makes them dangerous, ...again, when trained by an idiot.

A Rotweiller has the potential to be just as dangerous, trained and owned by idiots...

You cannot simply issue a death warrant to all Americant Bulldogs, perhaps their owners??

[Lightning Bolt]

You are right, and I stand corrected.
I mistook the term distemper as ill-tempered

...but I will stand by my opinion that the breed is predisposed to an aggressive response that involves a lock-jaw bite that can, and has,
resulted in a higher percentage of maulings and deaths than any other as recorded in recent years.

Are the owners that raised them idiots? I'd surely say "yes", but that doesn't explain the recent experience I just had.
That dog's owner didn't raise his dog as an aggressor, and we would play with the dog just like any other.
That's what made the whole thing so sad. He didn't want to exterminate his dog, but when faced with the near reality of the dog killing his niece,
in his eyes the choice would be clear to him, his wife, or even the authorities.
The dog possessed lethal force and displayed it. The dog had to be put down.

Like everything else that creates changes in law,
it's sometimes just the actions of a terrible few, especially with tragic results, that creates the atmosphere that ruins it for everything else.

[Brown Eyed Girl]

Pit bulls are not an inherently bad breed of dog. The sad thing is that they have been BRED to be bad so that the f'ing drug dealers, gang bangers and other lowlifes of society can feel tough. They have been abused and trained to be bad, and then constant breeding and inbreeding have made these qualities stand out. I believe that is how a pit bull who has been well taken care of and never caused any problems can all of the sudden attack. These problems are just confined to pit bulls, it is happening with more and more breeds. Pit bulls just get more press. It is tragic and disturbing, but I don't think eliminating an entire breed of dog is going to solve the problem. Tougher laws and consequences for the abusers, puppy mill owners etc might help, along with really getting a good spay/neuter program going. The thousands of unwanted dogs isn't helping the problem.

[Coconuts]

I don't think they should be banned, but I do think that they are unsafe to be left off leash with strange children (along with a lot of other breeds- cockers and dalmatians come to mind).

[Soraya]

If you want to ban one sort of dog....you have to ban them all.

A well-bred (not inbred, not backyard bred for aggressiveness), well trained and well cared for pit bull is not any more dangerous then any other dog. Too many fools bred aggressive dogs to other aggressive dogs and then abuse and train them to be aggressive.

Even if you friends took good care of their animal...what was it's pedigree? How well did they know the lines it came from?

Any dog can be unpredictable, be unhealthy, be aggressive. It's a shame that some human fools

We go to a local dogpark several times a week. I see pit bulls nearly every time we go. There has never been a problem with any of them. In fact, my bichon (21 pounds) seems to love playing with them more then many other breeds.....its funny to see a fluffy white dog be the dominate one while playing with one.

However, I've seen golden retrievers snap for no apparent reason. a collie that myself, my daughter or my dog will not have anything to do with (it's just a nasty dog, but at least he's consistant), and a mutt (lab, shepard and who knows what else) that has been asked never to return because he'd be playing nicely one second, try to maul the other dog or the hand that was petting it the next.

[Lightning Bolt]

I've read where in the '70's, German Shepards were responsible for the highest number of maulings, deaths...
In the '80's, it was Great Danes... and in the early '90's.: Rottweilers

Now, it's Pit Bulls...

[irishcajunphan]

I don't think they should be banned, but I do think that they are unsafe to be left off leash with strange children (along with a lot of other breeds- cockers and dalmatians come to mind).

hmmmm. . .are there normal children?

It is definitely a breeding and training issue. Labs and goldens have been suffering from it lately. We are starting to get aggressive ones at work and both breeds are usually sweet. As for spay/neuter programs, they are gaining popularity all over the country. I worked on an RV doing low cost ones for a year and a half. I can proudly say that I have assisted in 10,000 or so spays and neuters. Unfortunately, that's just a drop in the bucket. Educating the public and stiffer penalties are needed. I think California has the toughest laws right now. Tennessee isn't even close to having the laws needed to protect animals and manage populations. A slap on the wrist and a small fine don't discourage anyone from breeding unhealthy and bad tempered animals.

[land_shark3]

Distemper has nothing to do with a dogs disposition..

Thank you for the correction. Distemper is actually a genetic, neurological disease. It causes seizures and the lungs to fill with fluid, eventually drowning the animal.

Pit Bulls have a bad reputation because some people who shouldn't be allowed around animals have trained some of them to fight. If you are just looking at attack dogs and the dangers of them as a species, Poodles and German Shepherds are actually more prone to snap and "protect" their owners as they get older.

Banning breeds of animals will not solve anything. You'll just have rouge people who train some other breed to do their fighting.

[Skibo]

The temperment of a dog is determined by its upbringing. If you get rid of this breed do you get rid of all the other agressive breeds? I hope not.

[Soraya]

I've read where in the '70's, German Shepards were responsible for the highest number of maulings, deaths...
In the '80's, it was Great Danes... and in the early '90's.: Rottweilers

Now, it's Pit Bulls...

Very true....I know at one time that Cocker Spanials had a very high rate of biting. Had to do with how the American Cocker is bred to a different head shape then the orginal English Cocker.....in other words, their skull was too small for their brain and they were nuts.

The things humans do to our poor dogs.

[irishcajunphan]

The cute little chihuahua in my avatar can be a holy terror when she wants. At two and a half pounds, it isn't so bad. But, she is with me because she wouldn't be adoptable by a shelter which would have meant euthanasia. Any dog can become aggressive.

[irishcajunphan]

I've read where in the '70's, German Shepards were responsible for the highest number of maulings, deaths...
In the '80's, it was Great Danes... and in the early '90's.: Rottweilers

Now, it's Pit Bulls...

Very true....I know at one time that Cocker Spanials had a very high rate of biting. Had to do with how the American Cocker is bred to a different head shape then the orginal English Cocker.....in other words, their skull was too small for their brain and they were nuts.

The things humans do to our poor dogs.

A lot of that has to do with movies. Lady and the Tramp encouraged over breeding and inbreeding of cockers. 101 Dalmations did the same for the breed as well as Air Bud for goldens. The latest fad is mixing breeds with poodles to get a more hypoallergnic (sp) coat. Labradoodles and golden doodles from my experience tend to be hyper and brainless.

[Lightning Bolt]

If you are just looking at attack dogs and the dangers of them as a species, Poodles and German Shepherds are actually more prone to snap and "protect" their owners as they get older.

y'know, when I was a little kid, my great aunt had a mid-sized poodle, Peppy, that was the oldest, nastiest dog I've ever known.
My dad hated it every time she would fly out from Florida with her dog to visit. That dog did his best to snap at me any time I was near.
He would always tangle with our dog, and I would have to separate 'em.

I accidently slammed the car door on Peppy's nose once....
I felt terrible. My dad said I should've waited a second longer

As I recall it now, with a chuckle, that poodle NEVER EVER let me forget that one...

[Soraya]

The latest fad is mixing breeds with poodles to get a more hypoallergnic (sp) coat. Labradoodles and golden doodles from my experience tend to be hyper and brainless.

Lots of poodle mixes at the dog park....hum...I don't approve of 'designer' dogs but I am not sure I would agree with the hyper and brainless part though.

The Goldendoodles that are regulars are very high energy, especially as puppies....but they are controllable and they mature well. (There is a two year old there that is an awesome dog.) The Labradoodles are often too darn smart for their own good....lol....and they do mature out of their puppy energy (oldest one that I see is just about a year) about the same as other dogs.

I just wish people would stick to the muts already around, or well bred pedigrees if there is a reason for it. Standard poodles are great dogs, goldens and labs can be as well.....why do we need more muts? The shelters are full of them (and pure breds as well).

[Brown Eyed Girl]

Cali may have tough laws but they sure aren't enforced. The one thing we do enforce is that no animal can be adopted from a shelter unless it is spayed or neutered...but it really doesn't make much of a dent in the amount of unwanted animals that are born every day. I cannot believe how many supposedly "good" families that I worked with in my career than refused to spay or neuter their pets.

We had a purebred cocker that we found one Easter, he'd been abandoned and had been walking for miles. While he was wonderful with us, he did NOT like small children and would snap at them, although he never bit anyone. We made sure when we walked him that we never let kids get close enough to see if he would.

The very qualities that dogs are bred for in order to be considered "show dogs" ends up killing them most of the time. Cockers are susceptible to blindness and deafness, Germans Shepherds and dalmations get arthritis and hip dysplagia and there are a host of other problems with various breeds.

Like Soraya said, unless you know your pet's entire lineage, you really have no idea what you're getting. And even if you do, breeding may cause problems with temperment and behavior. We just can't take someone's word that it is a "good dog" anymore, we need to be careful with our children around any pets.

And after spending 2 afternoons at adoption events at our local Petsmart, I am amazed at how STUPID parents are with their kids. They let their kids stick fingers and faces in cages with no words of warning, no idea of the consequences of such actions. These people shouldn't have kids, let alone animals.

[bravedave]

There is a guy in our neighborhood who has crossed a donkey with an onion slice...

[ragtopW]

We had Labs most of my life.. We got this one as an adult.
my Dad would find a puppy most times.

He was a killer.. straight up.. He was mean..
unless it was around the Kids.. He was number one bodyguard..
you did not even talk in a loud tone to them..

most Labs are pretty calm and laid back.. I think He had something
happen to him as a puppy/young dog.
and strong?? He could break a 2x4 with just a twist of his neck..

so my point??

there are bad dogs from every breed. But they are made not born.