Airport Security - Just another Bush Failure

[SMLCHNG]

thanks penny!! I was typing slow

Anytime.

[AlbatrossFlyer]

Oh!! That's much less fun than I expected it to be! I was thinking it was along the lines of Monkeyboy's vodka vaporizer or something.

it's daytime use....

[ragtopW]

Hey Flyboy... you feel singled out???

try hauling a c-pap into the security line..

I hauled mine to California no problems just funny looks. Hows the cpap working for you?

well I feel much better and I no longer take naps.
well now I can get up and take a nap.. Not just doze off wherever I am at the time..

[Coconuts]

Ok- I give up. WTF is a c-pap?

the machine thingie that people with sleep apnea wear at night so they can sleep

AKA my Darth Vader mask..

I "relax" so well when I sleep my throat closes
the c-pap blows air into my air passage and the airway stays open..



and I live past 60..

My aunt has sleep apnea, and a cpap, too, I think, but I think she refers to it closer along the lines of the machine thingie.

[ragtopW]

Ok- I give up. WTF is a c-pap?

the machine thingie that people with sleep apnea wear at night so they can sleep

AKA my Darth Vader mask..

I "relax" so well when I sleep my throat closes
the c-pap blows air into my air passage and the airway stays open..



and I live past 60..

My aunt has sleep apnea, and a cpap, too, I think, but I think she refers to it closer along the lines of the machine thingie.

so do I I call it "my Buddy"

[Coconuts]

Oh no!! Now I have the Teddy Ruxpin song in my head!!

[Skibo]

Oh no!! Now I have the Teddy Ruxpin song in my head!!

It could be worse, you could have that darned Barney song in your head.

I love you, you love me.....

[ph4ever]

Ok- I give up. WTF is a c-pap?

the machine thingie that people with sleep apnea wear at night so they can sleep

AKA my Darth Vader mask..

I "relax" so well when I sleep my throat closes
the c-pap blows air into my air passage and the airway stays open..



and I live past 60..

My aunt has sleep apnea, and a cpap, too, I think, but I think she refers to it closer along the lines of the machine thingie.

so do I I call it "my Buddy"

Hell I call Don's MY BUDDY. Don sleeps better - I SLEEP BETTER.

[live2ski]

Ok- I give up. WTF is a c-pap?

Never heard of them........

[rednekkPH]

Ok- I give up. WTF is a c-pap?

the machine thingie that people with sleep apnea wear at night so they can sleep

AKA my Darth Vader mask..

I "relax" so well when I sleep my throat closes
the c-pap blows air into my air passage and the airway stays open..



and I live past 60..

My aunt has sleep apnea, and a cpap, too, I think, but I think she refers to it closer along the lines of the machine thingie.

so do I I call it "my Buddy"

Hell I call Don's MY BUDDY. Don sleeps better - I SLEEP BETTER.

How is Don doing with his, Connie?

[CapnK]

Ok- I give up. WTF is a c-pap?

Never heard of them........

[CapnK]

Oh no!! Now I have the Teddy Ruxpin song in my head!!

It could be worse, you could have that darned Barney song in your head.

I love you, you love me.....

Barney is evil.

[Indiana Jolly Mon]

I missed a few pages, but it seems that Flyboy is mad at Teddy Ruxpin and Barney for waiting in line to use his machine thingy?
I blame the F'ing republicans!!!!

[captenuta]

Hey Flyboy... you feel singled out???

try hauling a c-pap into the security line..

I hauled mine to California no problems just funny looks. Hows the cpap working for you?

well I feel much better and I no longer take naps.
well now I can get up and take a nap.. Not just doze off wherever I am at the time..

I lost 20 lbs when I first started to use the cpap. I notice that I dont dose off on the train or while driving. I do notice that my wife isn't pushing or hitting me any more in bed. Unless I want her to. My Dr. says using the cpap will add 10 yrs to my life.

[The Lost Manatee]

Sorry I haven't been involved in this discussion prior to this, work has been crazy.

As for the security tax on domestic flights it is a $2.50 charge for each take off, even if you are on a direct flight and don't get off the plane.

As for the TSA catching the group in the UK, they didn't and neither did the British equivalant, it was the British police and intelligence agencies that did that. Intelligence gathering isn't the TSAs primary function, supposedly it is securing air travel and other forms of public transportation.

I can honestly say that at many airports around the USA security isn't any better today then it was on 9/10/01. We have changed what we focus on, it used to be guns and explosives, now it is everything from box cutters (good luck using that on my backpack of books) to lighters. Pre 9-11 the assumption was hijacking with hostages taken, not crashing planes into buildings. What has been done is mostly window dressing and PR work. The biggest risk to an airliner is a bomb in the hold and given that air cargo is checked about 1 out 10 times, less if you are a known shipper. This means that if you want to bring down a plane you ship a bomb, not carry it on. Luckily for us, the bad guys seem to think that doesn't strike as much terror into our psyche as using an airliner as a missle.

The TSA has spent a pretty penny developing watch lists and no fly lists( with questionable results) and are trying to put together a program that is supposed to allow them to focus more attention on those most likely to be a bad guy however when one examines that basic premise one realizes that it is a flawed one. Currently the screeners select individuals at random, approximately 10% of all passengers, for extra attention. This means that each person has a 1 in 10 chance of being pulled aside for those little extra touches that we have all come to know and love. Now under the new system, they will still pull 10% of the passengers aside however rather then it being random it will be weighted by the no fly list and watch lists. This weighting will result in those no on the list only having a 1 in 100 chance of being pulled aside for extra screening. This leads to the following scenario, a terrorist cell decides it is going to blow up a plane. They each purchase a roundtrip ticket well in advance and fly off on a vacation without anything that could arouse suspicion. They make sure that they are on connecting flights so as to maximize their chances of being subjected to extra screening. They take note of who is and isn't pulled aside. Once they know who is going to be pulled aside they will know to use those individuals who weren't targeted for extra screening. The current random system, while looking silly when they pull out grandma is far more difficult to game then the proposed one that TSA is working on.

Can anyone show me the actual law and/or regulation that requires you to present ID at check in and/or at the security screening? If you can you have violated one or more Federal rules and regulations since these regulations and/or laws (we are all operating on the assumption that these actually exist) are classified top secret.

To be fair to the TSA, theirs is a thankless job and if anything goes wrong then it will be on their heads however we are very likely fighting the last war again while our enemies are planning something different.

As for the comment that no terrorist attack has happened since 9-11, there is some truth there however lets not forget who was in charge then. This administration wasn't doing anything significantly different or better then the Clinton or the Bush I or even Reagan administrations when it came to terrorism. The politicos didn't think that international terrorism was sexy enough to garner votes so they didn't expend much effort on it. It was generally treated as a criminal act and thus didn't get the resources that it gets now.

As far as I'm concerned the only way to make flying truly safe is to screen everything being checked or shipped, eliminate carry ons completely, no purses, no laptops, nothing, increase the security on the cleaning crews, the caterers, the gate agents to insure that nothing is smuggled on to the plane that way and last but not least, everyone flies naked! And that won't make it 100% safe but most folks will skip flying then so it won't be that big of deal.

Sorry for the long post however I felt I had to cover a lot of issues. Now back to the fun discussion about C-Papp machines.

[ph4ever]

the machine thingie that people with sleep apnea wear at night so they can sleep

AKA my Darth Vader mask..

I "relax" so well when I sleep my throat closes
the c-pap blows air into my air passage and the airway stays open..



and I live past 60..

My aunt has sleep apnea, and a cpap, too, I think, but I think she refers to it closer along the lines of the machine thingie.

so do I I call it "my Buddy"

Hell I call Don's MY BUDDY. Don sleeps better - I SLEEP BETTER.

How is Don doing with his, Connie?

He's doing real well. His energy has increased tremendously!! He's only had one bad night since he got it and that was because of his shoulder.

[ragtopW]

Ok- I give up. WTF is a c-pap?

the machine thingie that people with sleep apnea wear at night so they can sleep

AKA my Darth Vader mask..

I "relax" so well when I sleep my throat closes
the c-pap blows air into my air passage and the airway stays open..



and I live past 60..

My aunt has sleep apnea, and a cpap, too, I think, but I think she refers to it closer along the lines of the machine thingie.

so do I I call it "my Buddy"

Hell I call Don's MY BUDDY. Don sleeps better - I SLEEP BETTER.

let's just say I read that wrong..

[ragtopW]

Ok- I give up. WTF is a c-pap?

Never heard of them........

does not even look like mine...
that thing looks like it has an AM/FM/CD/MP-3 in it

[Brown Eyed Girl]

There is no question that the only thing consistent about airport security is its inconsistency. Protocols still vary from airport to airport, from smaller regional type airports to the larger big market hubs. After 9/11 I had to show my ID at the gate before boarding the plane, that maybe lasted 2 years at the most. Some airports still require you to show them as you get screened, most I've been in don't. I've seen TSA employees get hostile toward passengers who try to show their tickets and ID. Sometimes they make announcements while you're going thru the rat maze, but often those doing the announcing sound like they have a mouth full of marbles and are less than coherent. I pretty much know what jewelry I can wear that will make it thru, I always take off my shoes and my belt just to make it easier. I don't think I have had to have a bag hand searched or have been wanded in well over 3 years other than when I was in the wheelchair and had crutches. I keep hearing about long lines at airports due to increased security but I have yet to experience that, nor has anyone else I know. It seems to be more media hype than anything.

What concerns me is the number of things missed in the screenings. I believe it was Susan who said that when she came back from Vegas the screeners missed not one but two lighters she had in her purse that she had forgotten about. So what else are they missing?

I think the *illusion* of security being better, and therefore safer, is present but I don't think that is the reality. And I trust my pilot friends and the info I get from them far more than that of a frequent traveler.