LIPH wrote:Why does it need a label? It's a song, that's good enough for me.
Because there needs to be a way to distinguish between an original composition and a song written by someone else for a particular artist. I see fans and reviewers alike crediting songs to Buffett that he never even had a hand in. So, yes there does need to be a way to classify such songs.
There is: "Written by"
Changes In Latitudes, Changes In Attitudes Written By: Jimmy Buffett Performed by: Jimmy Buffett
Blue Guitar Written By: Roger Guth, Peter Mayer Performed by: Jimmy Buffett
Last edited by SchoolGirlHeart on December 13, 2006 4:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Carry on as you know they would want you to do. ~~JB, dedication to Tim Russert
Take your time
Find your passion
Life goes on until it ends
Don’t stop living
Until then
~~Mac McAnally
That still doesn't distinguish a song from being a cover and one written specifically for the artist that has never been recorded before by anyone (including the composer).
When I brought the word "relevant" into this discussion, I was quoting some guy named Jimmy Buffett (from a recent Today Show interview). His use of "relevant" related to current commercial success...which is about consumer preferences on the macro (large) scale. For example, does the CD show up on the Billboard Top 100 chart?
Applying commercial relevance to individual tastes, however, is entirely irrelevant (e.g. I may love a certain CD, but if only 150 were purchased, that CD just doesn't matter to the big picture)...if that makes sense.
"Reading departure signs in some big airport reminds me of the places I've been"
That still doesn't distinguish a song from being a cover and one written specifically for the artist that has never been recorded before by anyone (including the composer).
That wasn't your question. This was:
Tiki Torches wrote:Because there needs to be a way to distinguish between an original composition and a song written by someone else for a particular artist. I see fans and reviewers alike crediting songs to Buffett that he never even had a hand in. So, yes there does need to be a way to classify such songs.
You might actually have to do a little research to find out if it's a cover....
Carry on as you know they would want you to do. ~~JB, dedication to Tim Russert
Take your time
Find your passion
Life goes on until it ends
Don’t stop living
Until then
~~Mac McAnally
That still doesn't distinguish a song from being a cover and one written specifically for the artist that has never been recorded before by anyone (including the composer).
Tiki Torches, here's some stuff I posted back re. covers in response to Duck back on p.2 (hence the dead horse appearing):
Quiet and Shy wrote:If I understand you correctly, any artist recording songs they haven't written is recording "covers".
The reason I don't agree with your definition (aside from it's inconsistency with the standard) is it potentially over-recognizes a songwriter (who may be a wonderful writer but poor performer), and takes credit from the original recording artist (whose performing skills may be magic but who can't write any decent melody or lyrics).
An example that comes to mind is Frank Sinatra. I don't know how many if any of his hits he wrote, but he was a fabulous performer. Saying all he did was "covers" (which often implies a lower level of achievement or originality) is quite a slight to his career.
Further, if one uses your definition of "covers," then there is no term to differentiate a song written by someone other than the performer (e.g. "Bama Breeze") from a song first recorded and commercially released by another performer (e.g. "Southern Cross", "Brown Eyed Girl").
There's no question the internet blurs the "cover" definition. Now a songwriter (in an effort to gain attention of recording artists or producers) can upload what was once a behind-the-scenes "demo tape/recording" that is never intended or considered to be a commercial "release". No offense to Josh Kear, but this is what I consider his version of "Bama Breeze" to be. As "Bama Breeze" has never previously been commercially released (and consistent with the industry definition), I consider Jimmy's recording to be the original, and not a cover.
"Reading departure signs in some big airport reminds me of the places I've been"
That makes sense, QAS, what you said that Jimmy said. Having a place on the Top 200, X amount of sales, radio play - that seems to fall in line with someone being relevant in that regard. Like you said, if it only sells 150 and doesn't even chart, no airplay, downloads...on that level, I guess it's not relevant.
I'll go with that and, ah ha ha, Dead Horse Award in mind, leave it alone.
Seems like a very legitmate line of discussion to me or perhaps you're just unhappy that it's not turning out in your favor.
It has nothing to do with the discussion not going in my favor and everything to do with you getting answers to your questions and them asking the same questions again because you don't agree with the answer.
LIPH wrote:It has nothing to do with the discussion not going in my favor and everything to do with you getting answers to your questions and them asking the same questions again because you don't agree with the answer.
If the line of conversation bothers you to such a degree one would have to wonder why you would even go to the trouble of participating in it, especially if it compelled you to post a "Dead Horse Award". As for the answer to my question, I still haven't recieved one. I asked for a term to describe a song which was written by an artist, yet not recorded by them. If you consider "song" or "new song" a sufficient answer to that question then you're sadly mistaken. A "cover" doesn't necessarily have to be well known by another artist to be considered such. Buffett has recorded lots of songs by other performers who aren't nearly as well known as he is yet I'd still consider those songs to be cover versions.
Tiki Torches wrote:As for the answer to my question, I still haven't recieved one.
Neither have I
Tiki Torches wrote:Rod Stewart's massacre of the classics doesn't really make him relevant. Artists like Bob Dylan and Tom Waits still writing and recording original material at this stage of their careers is.
I don't feel that it has to be. I certainly don't feel the need to listen to what is considered popular by the masses if that is what is meant by "relevant".
Tiki Torches wrote:As for the answer to my question, I still haven't recieved one. I asked for a term to describe a song which was written by an artist, yet not recorded by them. If you consider "song" or "new song" a sufficient answer to that question then you're sadly mistaken.
That's the point I was making with my "dead horse" award. You got answers to your question but you didn't like the answers you got so you asked the question again. No matter how many times you ask the question or how you rephrase it, chances are you'll get the same answer.
According to the following definitions the term "cover" is an accurate description even if the song in question was never recorded by the original writer.
cover version –noun a recording of a song by a singer, instrumentalist, or group other than the original performer or composer.
Also called cover.
--------------------------------------
cover version n. A recording of a song that was previously recorded or made popular by another. Also called cover song.
Tiki Torches wrote:As for the answer to my question, I still haven't recieved one. I asked for a term to describe a song which was written by an artist, yet not recorded by them. If you consider "song" or "new song" a sufficient answer to that question then you're sadly mistaken.
That's the point I was making with my "dead horse" award. You got answers to your question but you didn't like the answers you got so you asked the question again. No matter how many times you ask the question or how you rephrase it, chances are you'll get the same answer.
It wasn't that I "didn't like the answers", it's that "song" or "new song" aren't accurate descriptions of the questions I was posing. "Song" or "new song" could have many definitions, none of which fit the description of the questions I had posed. Posting your Dead Horse Award brought nothing whatsoever to the conversation, least of all a answer to the questions being asked. See the definitions in the post above for the correct answers to my questions.
The point remains, your question was answered. It might not have been answered to your satisfaction, but it was answered. Life is full of disappointments.
LIPH wrote:The point remains, your question was answered. It might not have been answered to your satisfaction, but it was answered. Life is full of disappointments.
The answer I recieved to my question was the definition of a song written by a songwriter yet not recorded by the songwriter was that it is called "song" or "new song". As you can see by the definitions posted above, those terms aren't correct and don't apply in any way to the questions being posed. It seems "cover" (or "cover song" or "cover version") were apt terms all along. The terms you provided were wrong.
Tiki Torches wrote:According to the following definitions the term "cover" is an accurate description even if the song in question was never recorded by the original writer.
cover version –noun a recording of a song by a singer, instrumentalist, or group other than the original performer or composer.
Also called cover.
--------------------------------------
cover version n. A recording of a song that was previously recorded or made popular by another. Also called cover song.
so if Jimmy is the original performer, no matter who the composer is, it is not a cover.
"Boat drinks, waitress we........nevermind"
He ain't wrong he's just different
but his pride won't let him do things to make you think he's right
LIPH wrote:The point remains, your question was answered. It might not have been answered to your satisfaction, but it was answered. Life is full of disappointments.
The answer I recieved to my question was the definition of a song written by a songwriter yet not recorded by the songwriter was that it is called "song" or "new song". As you can see by the definitions posted above, those terms aren't correct and don't apply in any way to the questions being posed. It seems "cover" (or "cover song" or "cover version") were apt terms all along. The terms you provided were wrong.
So if a song written by a songwriter but not yet recorded by the songwriter isn't a song, what is it?
Tiki Torches wrote:According to the following definitions the term "cover" is an accurate description even if the song in question was never recorded by the original writer.
cover version –noun a recording of a song by a singer, instrumentalist, or group other than the original performer or composer.
Also called cover.
--------------------------------------
cover version n. A recording of a song that was previously recorded or made popular by another. Also called cover song.
so if Jimmy is the original performer, no matter who the composer is, it is not a cover.
Thank you. I think somebody said that a few pages ago.
Tiki Torches wrote:According to the following definitions the term "cover" is an accurate description even if the song in question was never recorded by the original writer.
cover version –noun a recording of a song by a singer, instrumentalist, or group other than the original performer or composer.
Also called cover.
--------------------------------------
cover version n. A recording of a song that was previously recorded or made popular by another. Also called cover song.
so if Jimmy is the original performer, no matter who the composer is, it is not a cover.
Thank you. I think somebody said that a few pages ago.
I'm old and I think I just wet myself
"Boat drinks, waitress we........nevermind"
He ain't wrong he's just different
but his pride won't let him do things to make you think he's right
Tiki Torches wrote:According to the following definitions the term "cover" is an accurate description even if the song in question was never recorded by the original writer.
cover version –noun a recording of a song by a singer, instrumentalist, or group other than the original performer or composer.
Also called cover.
--------------------------------------
cover version n. A recording of a song that was previously recorded or made popular by another. Also called cover song.
so if Jimmy is the original performer, no matter who the composer is, it is not a cover.
Thank you. I think somebody said that a few pages ago.
how is their horse doing?
"Boat drinks, waitress we........nevermind"
He ain't wrong he's just different
but his pride won't let him do things to make you think he's right
