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krusin1 wrote:

flyboy55 wrote:

ph4ever wrote:

I don't think words of advice would make much difference. I think the issue is much deeper and relates to how our society creates and enforces behavioral norms and expectations.

I think it is still accurate to say that our society expects women to be mothers (and wives) and in both obvious and subtle ways undermines women who don't choose to assume those roles.

~snip~

But I don't think you can make anyone realize that. They need to discover it for themselves (and in the process overcome decades of social programming).

Yup that's it. It's mean old society's fault.... we all know individuals have no idea how to think or run their own lives... we're all just mindless robots responding to whatever stimuli "society" forces on us.

I don't think it's society's FAULT....but having grown up in a community that considers you an 'old maid' at 21 and baren if you haven't calved by 22....I do understand the pressures that religion, family, whatever can put on people....
I was just fortunate not to belong to the prevailing mindset and had parents that weren't particularly concerned with my procreation.

pbans wrote:OBTUSE, obtuse, obtuse, obtuse, obtuse.....

That's a really cool word....I'm adding it to my list of words I need to use more often because they sound cool......

You're right... that IS a good word. Simply arguing about being called obtuse would make you obtuse.

krusin1 wrote:

flyboy55 wrote:

ph4ever wrote:

I don't think words of advice would make much difference. I think the issue is much deeper and relates to how our society creates and enforces behavioral norms and expectations.

I think it is still accurate to say that our society expects women to be mothers (and wives) and in both obvious and subtle ways undermines women who don't choose to assume those roles.

~snip~

But I don't think you can make anyone realize that. They need to discover it for themselves (and in the process overcome decades of social programming).

Yup that's it. It's mean old society's fault.... we all know individuals have no idea how to think or run their own lives... we're all just mindless robots responding to whatever stimuli "society" forces on us.

You can't deny that there are strong individuals and ones who have less fortitude. There are those who have an easily addictive personality, and those who are easily swayed to whatever the popular notion of the day is.

If society dictates that plaid and knee high socks are the fashionable thing for the fall, I'll bet any amount of money that there are a GOOD number of people who will be sporting plaid and knee high's.

The same goes for the notion that being with someone is better than being alone.

I don't see how the comment had anything to do with blaming on 'mean old society'. It's a proven psychological fact.

There are those who are stronger, and find that they do not need a relationship to be happy; the same as there are those who wouldn't wear knee-high's and plaid no matter who told them it was the norm.

Any person who intimidated by letters after a persons name is most likely not someone with letters behind their name's cup of tea!

Like it or not.... home life, background, job, education, social class.... all have a say in who is gonna go well with whom.

Pretty Woman is a MOVIE!

pbans wrote:

krusin1 wrote:

flyboy55 wrote:

ph4ever wrote:

I don't think words of advice would make much difference. I think the issue is much deeper and relates to how our society creates and enforces behavioral norms and expectations.

I think it is still accurate to say that our society expects women to be mothers (and wives) and in both obvious and subtle ways undermines women who don't choose to assume those roles.

~snip~

But I don't think you can make anyone realize that. They need to discover it for themselves (and in the process overcome decades of social programming).

Yup that's it. It's mean old society's fault.... we all know individuals have no idea how to think or run their own lives... we're all just mindless robots responding to whatever stimuli "society" forces on us.

I don't think it's society's FAULT....but having grown up in a community that considers you an 'old maid' at 21 and baren if you haven't calved by 22....I do understand the pressures that religion, family, whatever can put on people....
I was just fortunate not to belong to the prevailing mindset and had parents that weren't particularly concerned with my procreation.

I agree there ARE pressures....

But I also like to think/hope that most of the current generation is more like you than not -- ready, willing, and able to think for themselves.

krusin1 wrote:

pbans wrote:

krusin1 wrote:

flyboy55 wrote:

ph4ever wrote:

I don't think words of advice would make much difference. I think the issue is much deeper and relates to how our society creates and enforces behavioral norms and expectations.

I think it is still accurate to say that our society expects women to be mothers (and wives) and in both obvious and subtle ways undermines women who don't choose to assume those roles.

~snip~

But I don't think you can make anyone realize that. They need to discover it for themselves (and in the process overcome decades of social programming).

Yup that's it. It's mean old society's fault.... we all know individuals have no idea how to think or run their own lives... we're all just mindless robots responding to whatever stimuli "society" forces on us.

I don't think it's society's FAULT....but having grown up in a community that considers you an 'old maid' at 21 and baren if you haven't calved by 22....I do understand the pressures that religion, family, whatever can put on people....
I was just fortunate not to belong to the prevailing mindset and had parents that weren't particularly concerned with my procreation.

I agree there ARE pressures....

But I also like to think/hope that most of the current generation is more like you than not -- ready, willing, and able to think for themselves.

I am raising MY daughter that way....so far, so good!
Of course, she's only 15....so I've still got a ways to go!

ToplessRideFL wrote: . . . Pretty Woman is a MOVIE!

Yeah, but Julia Roberts would look great in plaid and knee highs.

krusin1 wrote:

flyboy55 wrote:

ph4ever wrote:

I don't think words of advice would make much difference. I think the issue is much deeper and relates to how our society creates and enforces behavioral norms and expectations.

I think it is still accurate to say that our society expects women to be mothers (and wives) and in both obvious and subtle ways undermines women who don't choose to assume those roles.

~snip~

But I don't think you can make anyone realize that. They need to discover it for themselves (and in the process overcome decades of social programming).

Yup that's it. It's mean old society's fault.... we all know individuals have no idea how to think or run their own lives... we're all just mindless robots responding to whatever stimuli "society" forces on us.

The society you were raised in has done a lot to determine what your core beliefs will be. Most of these beliefs are rarely questioned.

Failure to realize that we are powerfully influenced by these deeply held beliefs can lead to all manner of problems and difficulties.

As a business owner (I think you have stated previously that you are such) in a rapidly globalizing economy, you probably realize more than most how cultural assumptions can get you into trouble with potential customers/clients.

I don't believe we are "all just mindless robots" as you stated, but I do think humans are social creatures and as such are heavily invested in the maintenance of social norms, as maladaptive as they may become over time.

flyboy55 wrote:As a business owner (I think you have stated previously that you are such) in a rapidly globalizing economy, you probably realize more than most how cultural assumptions can get you into trouble with potential customers/clients.

As evidenced by Starbuck's eviciton from the Chinese Imperial Palace for corrupting Chinese traditions, even though they were invited in for the specific reason of opening a franchise there.

krusin1 wrote:

pbans wrote:OBTUSE, obtuse, obtuse, obtuse, obtuse.....

That's a really cool word....I'm adding it to my list of words I need to use more often because they sound cool......

You're right... that IS a good word. Simply arguing about being called obtuse would make you obtuse.

What movie was it... Jack Nichlson and Tom Cruise. I think one of them called the other Obtuse. It was a classic response.... A few Good Men maybe????

ToplessRideFL wrote:

krusin1 wrote:

pbans wrote:OBTUSE, obtuse, obtuse, obtuse, obtuse.....

That's a really cool word....I'm adding it to my list of words I need to use more often because they sound cool......

You're right... that IS a good word. Simply arguing about being called obtuse would make you obtuse.

What movie was it... Jack Nichlson and Tom Cruise. I think one of them called the other Obtuse. It was a classic response.... A few Good Men maybe????

Shawshank Redeption, too

Andy calls the warden that. He doesn't take it very well.

chippewa wrote: Shawshank Redeption

Andy calls the warden that. He doesn't take it very well.

Thats is...... great line!

flyboy55 wrote:

krusin1 wrote:

flyboy55 wrote:

ph4ever wrote:

I don't think words of advice would make much difference. I think the issue is much deeper and relates to how our society creates and enforces behavioral norms and expectations.

I think it is still accurate to say that our society expects women to be mothers (and wives) and in both obvious and subtle ways undermines women who don't choose to assume those roles.

~snip~

But I don't think you can make anyone realize that. They need to discover it for themselves (and in the process overcome decades of social programming).

Yup that's it. It's mean old society's fault.... we all know individuals have no idea how to think or run their own lives... we're all just mindless robots responding to whatever stimuli "society" forces on us.

The society you were raised in has done a lot to determine what your core beliefs will be. Most of these beliefs are rarely questioned.

Failure to realize that we are powerfully influenced by these deeply held beliefs can lead to all manner of problems and difficulties.

As a business owner (I think you have stated previously that you are such) in a rapidly globalizing economy, you probably realize more than most how cultural assumptions can get you into trouble with potential customers/clients.

I don't believe we are "all just mindless robots" as you stated, but I do think humans are social creatures and as such are heavily invested in the maintenance of social norms, as maladaptive as they may become over time.

Agreed, you have to "know the lay of the land" regarding cultural norms and adjust your business/approach/whatever as necessary.


And agreed, we DO have social norms. It could be that you and I disagree as to the extent that our social norms are "maladaptive" and/or influential.


There have been a lot of social norms shredded over the last few decades that we would have been better off keeping in place... the nuclear family, work ethic, loyalty to employee/employer all come to mind.


And before anyone starts putting words in my mouth - there have also been some social norms that desperately NEEDED to be shredded (racism, bigotry and such.)


'Nuff said. Cheers and beers to all.

Lets go back to the "a woman who can take care of herself" line. I am looking for a woman who can take care of herself and think for herself.

The last relationship I was in (and it got pretty serious), my ex stated to me I would take care of all of her expenses and do everything for her, and if I couldn't pay for it, her father would. I knew at that point, her idea of our relationship won't work. Now she's in a new relationship, and won't leave me alone.

krusin1 wrote:

pbans wrote:OBTUSE, obtuse, obtuse, obtuse, obtuse.....

That's a really cool word....I'm adding it to my list of words I need to use more often because they sound cool......

You're right... that IS a good word. Simply arguing about being called obtuse would make you obtuse.

The quote I have on my MySpace page...

"Call me obtuse, but you could stand me on a beach till the end of time and never would it occur to me to try to make it into windows.."

Personally, I blame television. And fairy tales. The phrase "and they lived happily ever after" has a lot to answer for, by Ghu.

I agree with those who say that loving yourself is the best place to start. Problem is, people who try that get derided as "selfish," "smug," etc., mostly by people who can't make money off well-adjusted people and/or those who've been programmed by them.

There's a reason that "Smart Woman in a Real Short Skirt" always spoke to me - and made me love Jimmy even more. If that's possible

I have asked myself the same question "WHAT IS WRONG WITH WOMEN THESE DAYS" and all I can do is keep coming back blaming our media and society for putting in people's heads that a "perfect" man or woman is a certain "look". Thank god for hot chicks like Nicole who look past ogre's like me

Anyone else get excited about all this obtusification?

buffettbride wrote:Anyone else get excited about all this obtusification?

Me me me!!!!!!!!!!!