Page 1 of 2

Are MP3's ruining music?

Posted: September 26, 2007 3:23 pm
by Dezdmona
Are Technology Limits
In MP3s and iPods
Ruining Pop Music?
September 12, 2007; Page B1

If it seems like you are listening to music more but enjoying it less, some people in the recording industry say they know why. They blame that iPod that you can't live without, along with all the compressed MP3 music files you've loaded on it.

Those who work behind-the-mic in the music industry -- producers, engineers, mixers and the like -- say they increasingly assume their recordings will be heard as MP3s on an iPod music player. That combination is thus becoming the "reference platform" used as a test of how a track should sound. (Movie makers make much the same complaint when they see their filmed images in low-quality digital form.)

But because both compressed music and the iPod's relatively low-quality earbuds have many limitations, music producers fret that they are engineering music to a technical lowest common denominator. The result, many say, is music that is loud but harsh and flat, and thus not enjoyable for long periods of time.

"Right now, when you are done recording a track, the first thing the band does is to load it onto an iPod and give it a listen," said Alan Douches, who has worked with Fleetwood Mac and others. "Years ago, we might have checked the sound of a track on a Walkman, but no one believed that was the best it could sound. Today, young artists think MP3s are a high-quality medium and the iPod is state-of-the-art sound."

It isn't. Producers and engineers say there are many ways they might change a track to accommodate an iPod MP3. Sometimes, the changes are for the worse.

For example, says veteran Los Angeles studio owner Skip Saylor, high frequencies that might seem splendid on a CD might not sound as good as an MP3 file and so will get taken out of the mix. "The result might make you happy on an MP3, but it wouldn't make you happy on a CD," he says. "Am I glad I am doing this? No. But it's the real world and so you make adjustments."

This shift to compressed music heard via an iPod is occurring at the same time as another music trend that bothers audiophiles: Music today is released at higher volume levels than ever before, on the assumption that louder music sells better. The process of boosting volume, though, tends to eliminate a track's distinct highs and lows.

As a result, contemporary pop music has a characteristic sound, says veteran L.A. engineer Jack Joseph Puig, whose credits include the Rolling Stones and Eric Clapton. "Ten years ago, music was warmer; it was rich and thick, with more tones and more 'real power.' But newer records are more brittle and bright. They have what I call 'implied power.' It's all done with delays and reverbs and compression to fool your brain."

All these engineers tend to be audiophiles, the sort who would fuss over a track to make it perfect. But they're beginning to wonder if they should bother.

"I care about quality, even though the kid on the street might like what he hears on MySpace, which is even worse than an MP3," said Stuart Brawley, an L.A. engineer who has recorded Cher and Michael Jackson. "We try to make the best quality sound we can, but we increasingly have to be realistic about how much time we can spend doing it."

Howard Benson, who has done work for Santana and Chris Daughtry, says members of a studio recording crew will sometimes complain after a session, "I just spent all this time getting the greatest guitar and drums solo, and it ends up as an MP3."

Even those who complain about MP3s say they own and enjoy iPods, and appreciate how they have made music so widely available. They just wish, they say, the device wasn't setting the technical standard for how music gets made.

Of course, not all music producers agree that MP3s and iPods are affecting music in quite so bad a way. Larry Klein, noted for his work with Joni Mitchell, said, "If something sounds really good on an average pair of speakers, it will sound great on earbuds. I can't imagine mixing a record so that it sounds better on earbuds."

And Clif Magness, who has recorded with Kelly Clarkson and Clay Aiken, says music recorded by young artists in living rooms via MP3s, while technically crude, can sometimes have an urgency and immediacy that might be missing from slick studio projects.

When CDs were first introduced, they were regarded as cold and flat, compared with vinyl. But their sound improved as engineers learned the medium, a process many hope will happen again with MP3s and portable music players.

Michael Bradford, who has produced Kid Rock, notes that as storage and bandwidth capabilities grow, music won't need to be as compressed. Even now, some audio buffs, such as Stereophile magazine columnist Michael Fremer, insist on a best-of-both-worlds approach to digital music. He uses $500 earbuds with his iPod to listen to digital, but uncompressed, music he captures from vinyl LPs.

Still, engineers experience some nostalgia about earlier technologies. Says Mr. Saylor, "What we've lost with this new era of massive compression and low fidelity are the records that sounds so good that you get lost in them. "Dark Side of the Moon" -- records like that just aren't being made today."

Re: Are MP3's ruining music?

Posted: September 26, 2007 3:29 pm
by SharkOnLand
Dezdmona wrote:Michael Bradford, who has produced Kid Rock, notes that as storage and bandwidth capabilities grow, music won't need to be as compressed. Even now, some audio buffs, such as Stereophile magazine columnist Michael Fremer, insist on a best-of-both-worlds approach to digital music. He uses $500 earbuds with his iPod to listen to digital, but uncompressed, music he captures from vinyl LPs.
That's like putting premium racing fuel in a Yugo. Ok, maybe that's a bit harsh, but ipods are not known for having the best audio quality.... You'd think a guy who spends $500 on earbuds would shell out the money for a high-sound-quality digital audio player.

Posted: September 26, 2007 3:32 pm
by FunkHouse9
The only thing I have noticed is that when I play my iPod, I have thousands of songs, personally selected by me and for me, yet when I put it on shuffle, I skip dozens of songs before I stop on one. I have weeks of music at my fingertips and nothing I want to listen to. I don't think I felt that way when I wasn't carrying my entire music library in my back pocket all the time.

Posted: September 26, 2007 3:51 pm
by Skibo
Music hasn't been the same since CD's hit the market. I miss the album art. Downloads make the music much more disposable also. I have never thrown out an album or CD. Downloads are less permanent.

Posted: September 26, 2007 4:09 pm
by ConchRepublican
FunkHouse9 wrote:The only thing I have noticed is that when I play my iPod, I have thousands of songs, personally selected by me and for me, yet when I put it on shuffle, I skip dozens of songs before I stop on one. I have weeks of music at my fingertips and nothing I want to listen to. I don't think I felt that way when I wasn't carrying my entire music library in my back pocket all the time.

I'm glad it's not just me. I remember when, not all that long ago, I'd have a walkman, 3 tapes and be set.

Posted: September 26, 2007 4:23 pm
by FunkHouse9
ConchRepublican wrote:
FunkHouse9 wrote:The only thing I have noticed is that when I play my iPod, I have thousands of songs, personally selected by me and for me, yet when I put it on shuffle, I skip dozens of songs before I stop on one. I have weeks of music at my fingertips and nothing I want to listen to. I don't think I felt that way when I wasn't carrying my entire music library in my back pocket all the time.

I'm glad it's not just me. I remember when, not all that long ago, I'd have a walkman, 3 tapes and be set.
It seems like the mp3 and iPod revolution has increased the "too much of a good thing" feeling I have. And as I type this I should duly note that I have my iPod playing right now. Next stop http://www.buffettnews.com/forum/viewto ... start=2860 [smilie=umm.gif]

Posted: September 26, 2007 4:37 pm
by LIPH
dez, that article looks very familiar. Is it from the Wall Street Journal?

Posted: September 26, 2007 4:44 pm
by chippewa
LIPH wrote:dez, that article looks very familiar. Is it from the Wall Street Journal?
It is.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118953936892024096.html

Posted: September 26, 2007 5:00 pm
by 12vmanRick
Music started being ruined when Vinyl went south.

Posted: September 26, 2007 5:14 pm
by Dezdmona
chippewa wrote:
LIPH wrote:dez, that article looks very familiar. Is it from the Wall Street Journal?
It is.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118953936892024096.html
Sorry, I usually provide links. :oops:
Thanks chippewa.

Posted: September 26, 2007 7:09 pm
by sonofabeach
not for me

Posted: September 26, 2007 10:47 pm
by blackjack
Wahhhh,

You all sound like my parents...and I'm 39!

"I'm remember when candy cost a nickel and a car was $500"

I listen to more music now than I ever have. Between ipod and Sirius I can always find something great anywhere I happen to be.

I listen to the The Wall on my ipod and I hear things I've never heard before, so the quality is hardly diminished to "the way things used to be."

Geezers! :pirate:

Posted: September 27, 2007 1:48 am
by moog
So what you are saying is that only one sided arguments should be heard?

I agree with the more music for people to enjoy. Today an artist has more delivery options available. Sometimes I'm overwhelmed with the new stuff I just say the heck with it and go with old stuff. Like a Buddy Rich album.

This is not the same as a cost of candy and a car. This is just part of our Big Mac entertainment culture. All eye candy but no substance. Been like that before I was born.

I look at these formats as a convenience to some. I wouldn't bother because I need to hear audio coming out of speakers rather then pressure pushing through my ear. I don't commute far. If I exercise I read or think (try just staring and daydreaming once in a while) rather then listen to music. if I'm in my car I'll use the CD player with crappy speakers. If I decide to listen to music at home I'll use the stereo I purchased in the early 90's. Heck, from what I understand today's home units are bad.

Either way, the I Pods and Mp3 players are no different then the portable cassette tapes of yesteryear. Except with better sound. So this is a good thing in that sense. I listen to Sirus too, but the QT is slightly better then FM radio. Heck, because of Sirus I picked up a Pink Martini CD. Would I buy the entire album on a download? No. Because the cost of the CD is only a buck or two higher and it will be around 20 years from now if I take care of it. Plus I can back it up, down convert it to wma, aac, mp3 whatever.

The discs I have which were produced in the 80's are bad. They were burned off submasters made for vinyl. Garbage in, garbage out. How many flash videos can one watch with artifacts?

Discs should be around a little longer and once they are gone I'll be out of the demographic anyway.

Posted: September 27, 2007 2:55 am
by moog
ConchRepublican wrote:I'm glad it's not just me. I remember when, not all that long ago, I'd have a walkman, 3 tapes and be set.
I like a good segue. No shuffle for me. To my ears the music should flow and not sound like a jump cut between songs. I don't know, it must not sound mechanical. Sometimes a connection between the songs is cool. Like this:

Russell Malone | Theme From Gunsmoke | Live At Jazz Standard Volume Two | MaxJazz

CBS Orchestra | Gunsmoke Theme | Songs Of The West | Rhino

Sonny Rollins | Way Out West | Way Out West | Fantasy

Joshua Redman | I'm An Old Cowhand | Back East | Nonesuch

Roy Rodgers | Rock Me To Sleep in My Saddle | Songs Of The West | Rhino

Joshua Redman | East Of The Sun (And West Of The Moon) | Back East | Nonesuch

Mary Martin and cast | Never Never Land | Peter Pan | RCA Victor

The Beatles | Flying | Magical Mystery Tour | Capitol

Duncan Sheik | I Don't Believe In Ghosts | White Limousine | Zoƫ

The Beatles | Blue Jay Way | Magical Mystery Tour | Capitol

Posted: September 27, 2007 8:04 am
by blackjack
Oh yeah, the quality on those vinyls with the hissing and cracking was great and tapes in a Walkman... can't be beat. :roll:

Now where's my "stirring the pot" smiley?

Posted: September 27, 2007 10:03 am
by FunkHouse9
blackjack wrote:I listen to the The Wall on my ipod and I hear things I've never heard before, so the quality is hardly diminished to "the way things used to be."

Geezers! :pirate:
I have to disagree with that. I believe you might notice things you haven't heard before, but it's definately not because it's an mp3 or coming through an iPod. The quality of audio on a CD is undisputibly better than an mp3. I would not be surprised if you heard new things by playing a cd on a fantastic sound system but, and I sincerely mean no offense when I say this, if you're hearing new things on your iPod that you didn't hear on the cd, it's probably because you weren't listening too carefully before.

If you play a cd on an excellent sound system and play an mp3 of that same song on that same system, you will notice a world of difference. Also, The Wall is an older recording and I would argue that the quality of the originals is lower to begin with than many modern well produced albums simply because of differences in technology.

Posted: September 27, 2007 10:58 am
by Virgin-Island-Girl
I don't really know if they're ruining the music industry...

I don't have an ipod or MP3 player. I was given an MP3 player, but never used it so I sold it on ebay.

The reason for me not wanting one is that I don't like to have sound blocked out when out and about via ear plugs - I never had a Walkman back in the day for the same reason. Not hearing what's going on around me makes me feel uneasy - I like to hear if something/someone is coming up behind me.

Otherwise, I'm in my car or house where I have CD players. I'm not really into techno gadgetry so have no interest in the other features they have.

Posted: September 27, 2007 11:03 am
by LIPH
The music business was ruined back in the 1980s the first day MTV was on the air. mp3s have nothing to do with it.

Posted: September 27, 2007 11:12 am
by SuperTrooper
Last year for my birthday I received a video iPod as a replacement for my recently stolen Zen (not my idea). The rest of the family has iPods so we have a dock for the home music system. I re-ripped most of my CD collection into iTunes and onto the iPod. When played on the home system I noticed an immediate difference between music played on the CD and AAC ripped music. It was even more noticeable over my Sennheiser headphones. Then I saw an article in PCWorld http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,136299/article.html that led me to the FLAC codec. I downloaded it to my iPod, re-ripped some songs, and was amazed at the difference!

TRY IT!!!

Posted: September 27, 2007 11:15 am
by chippewa
LIPH wrote:The music business was ruined back in the 1980s the first day MTV was on the air. mp3s have nothing to do with it.
You're saying that video killed the radio star? :wink:

MTV started the week I went to college. It was all the rage back then, but in it's defense, it actually played music.