Holden Caufield

[jonesbeach10]

Yup, I'm talking about the main character of Catcher in the Rye by JD Salinger. Was wondering whether you, the BN member, thought whether Holden was a whiny bee-yotch or a great person trying to fight social conformity. Want to try to settle an argument between myself and a friend (not gonna say which I prefer, and won't vote for a day or so).

Note I'm talking about the character, not the book as a whole

[drunkpirate66]

The answer is neither . . .

Holden Caufield was a manic depressant who suffered from extreme loneliness. He exhibited all the signs of such a disorder: lying, running away from problems and loved ones, not reaching full potential like flunking out of school . . . . he eventually found truth when he met his little sister and knew he needed help.

The irony is that the whole book was written from Caulfield's view so it could have all been lies . . . he admitted numerous times that he was a liar and that he did it often.

I wrote my theisis on this book for my undergraduate practicum. It is one of my all time favorites . . . that is an extremely short version of Caulfield: little substance . . . manic liar and depressed . . . needs help - which he eventually got as he is writing down what happened over that weekend from a hospital . . .

[jonesbeach10]

PS. If a mod wants to correct the spelling on the 2nd choice from "role" to "roll"

Don't want anyone to sick the grammar police on me.

[drunkpirate66]

no response?

Caufield was a sick kid. nothing more or less. He was too young and sheltered to know anything about a conforming society anyways . . . and the fact he was in a hospital after slumming with whores (if true . . . I doubt it) and hard liqour (again, come on . . . he was only like 14 and he claims he was drinking in bars) proves his destructive behavior (or his need to fantasize about destrutive behavior) . . . no hero or bee - yotch here. A fragile depressed kid.

[jonesbeach10]

no response?

Caufield was a sick kid. nothing more or less. He was too young and sheltered to know anything about a conforming society anyways . . . and the fact he was in a hospital after slumming with whores (if true . . . I doubt it) and hard liqour (again, come on . . . he was only like 14 and he claims he was drinking in bars) proves his destructive behavior (or his need to fantasize about destrutive behavior) . . . no hero or bee - yotch here. A fragile depressed kid.

give it time. It's late on the east coast. Either way, the debate ended with the fact that we both need to go back and reread the book.

And I had not heard that argument before (I've run it by a bunch of other people who weren't involved in the debate).

[drunkpirate66]

no response?

Caufield was a sick kid. nothing more or less. He was too young and sheltered to know anything about a conforming society anyways . . . and the fact he was in a hospital after slumming with whores (if true . . . I doubt it) and hard liqour (again, come on . . . he was only like 14 and he claims he was drinking in bars) proves his destructive behavior (or his need to fantasize about destrutive behavior) . . . no hero or bee - yotch here. A fragile depressed kid.

give it time. It's late on the east coast. Either way, the debate ended with the fact that we both need to go back and reread the book.

yep. Us West Coast Nantuckers sure can stay up late.

[jonesbeach10]

no response?

Caufield was a sick kid. nothing more or less. He was too young and sheltered to know anything about a conforming society anyways . . . and the fact he was in a hospital after slumming with whores (if true . . . I doubt it) and hard liqour (again, come on . . . he was only like 14 and he claims he was drinking in bars) proves his destructive behavior (or his need to fantasize about destrutive behavior) . . . no hero or bee - yotch here. A fragile depressed kid.

give it time. It's late on the east coast. Either way, the debate ended with the fact that we both need to go back and reread the book.

yep. Us West Coast Nantuckers sure can stay up late.

So do us West DC'ers (is that even right?)

[Wino you know]

I read the book in high school as part of an English Literature assignment.
I guess Holden was a fairly decent guy-a bit whacko at times, but all in all, not a really bad person.
But I'm thinking he should've "did" the prostitute that the elevator operator at his hotel provided for him instead of sending her away.

[popcornjack]

The answer is neither . . .

Holden Caufield was a manic depressant who suffered from extreme loneliness. He exhibited all the signs of such a disorder: lying, running away from problems and loved ones, not reaching full potential like flunking out of school . . . . he eventually found truth when he met his little sister and knew he needed help.

The irony is that the whole book was written from Caulfield's view so it could have all been lies . . . he admitted numerous times that he was a liar and that he did it often.

I wrote my theisis on this book for my undergraduate practicum. It is one of my all time favorites . . . that is an extremely short version of Caulfield: little substance . . . manic liar and depressed . . . needs help - which he eventually got as he is writing down what happened over that weekend from a hospital . . .

Um......don't take this the wrong way, but by the time i found this thread, you've nailed it.

[drunkpirate66]

The answer is neither . . .

Holden Caufield was a manic depressant who suffered from extreme loneliness. He exhibited all the signs of such a disorder: lying, running away from problems and loved ones, not reaching full potential like flunking out of school . . . . he eventually found truth when he met his little sister and knew he needed help.

The irony is that the whole book was written from Caulfield's view so it could have all been lies . . . he admitted numerous times that he was a liar and that he did it often.

I wrote my theisis on this book for my undergraduate practicum. It is one of my all time favorites . . . that is an extremely short version of Caulfield: little substance . . . manic liar and depressed . . . needs help - which he eventually got as he is writing down what happened over that weekend from a hospital . . .

Um......don't take this the wrong way, but by the time i found this thread, you've nailed it.

so hard not to make a joke . . . but thank you nonetheless.

[drunkpirate66]

no response?

Caufield was a sick kid. nothing more or less. He was too young and sheltered to know anything about a conforming society anyways . . . and the fact he was in a hospital after slumming with whores (if true . . . I doubt it) and hard liqour (again, come on . . . he was only like 14 and he claims he was drinking in bars) proves his destructive behavior (or his need to fantasize about destrutive behavior) . . . no hero or bee - yotch here. A fragile depressed kid.

give it time. It's late on the east coast. Either way, the debate ended with the fact that we both need to go back and reread the book.

yep. Us West Coast Nantuckers sure can stay up late.

So do us West DC'ers (is that even right?)

so if you need to read the book why start this thread? just curious. I thought you wanted a discussion . . . let me know - - - the Catcher in the Rye is a book I love to read at Christmas time. Sounds kind of silly . . . but the way he views his sister at the end on the swings (if he wasn't lying - I ill assume he is not) is wonderful.

[OystersandBeer]

I wasn't a big fan of him. i read it twice just to make sure I wasn't missing anything and felt the same about him. I read it first in high school and thought this kid is a chump. I read it later and thought the same thing. But then again, I've never read it with a psychology slant to it, either. I can see how he can be seen as a mentally ill. Maybe that's it. But I won't go back and re-read it. at least not for a long, long time. Got way too many books that I haven't read to give that one a third over.


A more interesting character to me with the name Holden is Judge Holden from Blood Meridian.

[buffettbride]

I picked other.

He was a neurotic, depressed, confused kid. I <heart> Holden. You couldn't help but feel for the guy. Whenever I see a man punch another man it brings my right back to Holden hating to punch someone in the face. Or when I see the hunter's caps with the ear flaps.

JD Salinger is one of my all-time literary heroes.

[buffettbride]

I can see how he can be seen as a mentally ill.

Of course he was mentally ill!! The whole premise of the book was telling his story to a therapist.

[buffettbride]

The answer is neither . . .

Holden Caufield was a manic depressant who suffered from extreme loneliness. He exhibited all the signs of such a disorder: lying, running away from problems and loved ones, not reaching full potential like flunking out of school . . . . he eventually found truth when he met his little sister and knew he needed help.

The irony is that the whole book was written from Caulfield's view so it could have all been lies . . . he admitted numerous times that he was a liar and that he did it often.

I wrote my theisis on this book for my undergraduate practicum. It is one of my all time favorites . . . that is an extremely short version of Caulfield: little substance . . . manic liar and depressed . . . needs help - which he eventually got as he is writing down what happened over that weekend from a hospital . . .

HOLY SMOKES! We agree completely on something!

[buffettbride]

And, um, it's Holden Caulfield.

[buffettbride]

I wasn't a big fan of him.

After I read the rest of Salinger it seemed odd to have read Catcher first. 9 Stories and Franny and Zooey really help you get the feel of what Salinger is after, IMO. I would have liked to read everything else by Salinger and then read Catcher, but evidently the educational system doesn't agree with me.

Geeez. I haven't gotten to talk Salinger in a long time.

[OystersandBeer]

I can see how he can be seen as a mentally ill.

Of course he was mentally ill!! The whole premise of the book was telling his story to a therapist.

Just because someone goes to a therapist they are mentally ill?

[buffettbride]

I can see how he can be seen as a mentally ill.

Of course he was mentally ill!! The whole premise of the book was telling his story to a therapist.

Just because someone goes to a therapist they are mentally ill?

Today? No. When 'ol Holden was around. Absolutely. People didn't just go to therapy then. They went 'cause they were sick--and Holden realized it too.

I haven't read it in ages so I'm afraid I might start having to pull stuff out of my butt here.

[OystersandBeer]

I can see how he can be seen as a mentally ill.

Of course he was mentally ill!! The whole premise of the book was telling his story to a therapist.

Just because someone goes to a therapist they are mentally ill?

Today? No. When 'ol Holden was around. Absolutely. People didn't just go to therapy then. They went 'cause they were sick--and Holden realized it too.

I haven't read it in ages so I'm afraid I might start having to pull stuff out of my butt here.

That's cool. I haven't read in a long time either. But because of the time it is set I don't think him being in an institute is that big of a deal. They didn't have therapy like we do now, so if anyone did things out of the ordinary people were thought of to be mentally ill and could be sent to an institution. I'm just saying I never really thought of him as mentally ill. I saw him as an average teenager. But that he thought of himself as something more. And brought on a lot of his problems on himself.

But i can see if he was bi-polar(manic depressive) it would explain some things. But I don't think it said so in the book.