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chippewa wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:Teachers are in a position of trust. A sexual relationship with a student is a betrayal of that trust. If caught, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

I think that's the offense, even more so than the age issue. Teachers, clergy, counselors, doctors, etc. They all need to realize the position of influence that they hold.

SO is it an abuse of power? Johnny/Jill Blue Collar or Retail are okay to hit on the 15-16yr old?

I can't take a stand because as a teen I pursued older women. I DID IT. I KNOW I DID IT. I wanted to do it.

Sure the women could have said no. So the difference between 15 and 24 is 9 years. When I was 20 was I a victim pursuing a 40yr old woman!? She was 2x's my age which would make her 2x's more authorative?

Skibo wrote:As a nation of laws, we have the obligation to obey the laws. Even if they are stupid. There are means to get rid of stupid laws and those methods should be used. For those of you that think it is ok for teachers to be having sex with their students, have you petitioned your state representatives to get rid of the age of consent laws? Yeah, didn't think so.

We are a nation of laws that are conflicted by state and religion. We can't expect the laws/church to raise and wholly guide our children. Is there a law that kids shouldn't talk to strangers? No, but I don't want my kids doing so for the potential danger. Is there a law saying teens in general can't have sex? No, that is a parents job. So by not having that law that states it, by your rule, teens having sex is OK and if the teens live by the law of the land there then becomes the gray area of sex is okay but who can I have it with?
As a teen male I found anything that moved an acceptable and viable option.

mjeischen wrote:

chippewa wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:Teachers are in a position of trust. A sexual relationship with a student is a betrayal of that trust. If caught, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

I think that's the offense, even more so than the age issue. Teachers, clergy, counselors, doctors, etc. They all need to realize the position of influence that they hold.

SO is it an abuse of power? Johnny/Jill Blue Collar or Retail are okay to hit on the 15-16yr old?

I can't take a stand because as a teen I pursued older women. I DID IT. I KNOW I DID IT. I wanted to do it.

Sure the women could have said no. So the difference between 15 and 24 is 9 years. When I was 20 was I a victim pursuing a 40yr old woman!? She was 2x's my age which would make her 2x's more authorative?

The five years between 15 and 20 is HUGE.....those are the years you are, hopefully, gathering the life experience necessary to make good....or at least not harmful, choices for yourself.

I have a very mature 15 year old daughter, but I would destroy, literally and figuratively, any adult male that took advantage of her youth and the glorious naivete that she gets to possess for such a short time.

mjeischen wrote:

Skibo wrote:As a nation of laws, we have the obligation to obey the laws. Even if they are stupid. There are means to get rid of stupid laws and those methods should be used. For those of you that think it is ok for teachers to be having sex with their students, have you petitioned your state representatives to get rid of the age of consent laws? Yeah, didn't think so.

We are a nation of laws that are conflicted by state and religion. We can't expect the laws/church to raise and wholly guide our children. Is there a law that kids shouldn't talk to strangers? No, but I don't want my kids doing so for the potential danger. Is there a law saying teens in general can't have sex? No, that is a parents job. So by not having that law that states it, by your rule, teens having sex is OK and if the teens live by the law of the land there then becomes the gray area of sex is okay but who can I have it with?
As a teen male I found anything that moved an acceptable and viable option.

If the teen has sex with an adult or peer consentually could we pursue the parents for child endangerment for failure to teach their children whats right and wrong?

Ultimately I see "Responsibility" being a resounding factor here. Its the teachers responsibility to not abuse their power. It is the Teens responsibility to now what it right or wrong. It is the parents responsibility to be aware and raise their children.

I'm not an advocate of sleeping with children by any stretch and I believe there is accountability on all levels here.

I'm arguing this out to find a side and I'm seriously conflicted with it.

pbans wrote:

mjeischen wrote:

chippewa wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:Teachers are in a position of trust. A sexual relationship with a student is a betrayal of that trust. If caught, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

I think that's the offense, even more so than the age issue. Teachers, clergy, counselors, doctors, etc. They all need to realize the position of influence that they hold.

SO is it an abuse of power? Johnny/Jill Blue Collar or Retail are okay to hit on the 15-16yr old?

I can't take a stand because as a teen I pursued older women. I DID IT. I KNOW I DID IT. I wanted to do it.

Sure the women could have said no. So the difference between 15 and 24 is 9 years. When I was 20 was I a victim pursuing a 40yr old woman!? She was 2x's my age which would make her 2x's more authorative?

The five years between 15 and 20 is HUGE.....those are the years you are, hopefully, gathering the life experience necessary to make good....or at least not harmful, choices for yourself.

I have a very mature 15 year old daughter, but I would destroy, literally and figuratively, any adult male that took advantage of her youth and the glorious naivete that she gets to possess for such a short time.

And I have a daughter and I agree.

Have you talked to your daughter about sex? What if she pursued it and pushed the issue? I feel I know you to a minimal extent and know you have an excellent relationship with your kids so say she came to you about it and told you she had these feelings towards an older guy? What if he's 19? Is it OK now?

Yes, there are laws saying that young teens can't have sex.
The age of consent, by and large, is 16.....as low as 14 in some states.

Most laws have a configuration that includes the difference in years between the two parties.

mjeischen wrote:

pbans wrote:

mjeischen wrote:

chippewa wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:Teachers are in a position of trust. A sexual relationship with a student is a betrayal of that trust. If caught, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

I think that's the offense, even more so than the age issue. Teachers, clergy, counselors, doctors, etc. They all need to realize the position of influence that they hold.

SO is it an abuse of power? Johnny/Jill Blue Collar or Retail are okay to hit on the 15-16yr old?

I can't take a stand because as a teen I pursued older women. I DID IT. I KNOW I DID IT. I wanted to do it.

Sure the women could have said no. So the difference between 15 and 24 is 9 years. When I was 20 was I a victim pursuing a 40yr old woman!? She was 2x's my age which would make her 2x's more authorative?

The five years between 15 and 20 is HUGE.....those are the years you are, hopefully, gathering the life experience necessary to make good....or at least not harmful, choices for yourself.

I have a very mature 15 year old daughter, but I would destroy, literally and figuratively, any adult male that took advantage of her youth and the glorious naivete that she gets to possess for such a short time.

And I have a daughter and I agree.

Have you talked to your daughter about sex? What if she pursued it and pushed the issue? I feel I know you to a minimal extent and know you have an excellent relationship with your kids so say she came to you about it and told you she had these feelings towards an older guy? What if he's 19? Is it OK now?

Oh, I have absolutely talked to my daughter about sex....about relationships....about all of that.
She's crushing on a kid that's 18 right now.....and I'm struggling with it. he's a good kid, she's a good kid. She's not really allowed to date until she's 16.......but it's a constant struggle to draw the line and even decide where the damn line should be.
The best I can do is teach her, love her, guide her, trust her......
I never belittle her feelings.....when she says she's in love, I believe her. She is.....it may not be the forever love, but I remember 15 year old love and although it is short-lived...it's awfully real.

I find myself jumping all over the place on these issues, too....and I think that's okay.....although the law, by nature, is more black and white....life isn't. I have seen good kids have their lives changed forever by being charged with 'unlawful sexual intercourse'.....but I have also seen good kids lives ruined by getting involved in a relationship that was way above their ability to manage it and be taken advantage of.

I have a bit of a unique take as I did work sex crimes for several years.
It's not always a clear cut issue.

pbans wrote:Yes, there are laws saying that young teens can't have sex.
The age of consent, by and large, is 16.....as low as 14 in some states.

Most laws have a configuration that includes the difference in years between the two parties.

I just learned something. Thanks Paige.

So we are discussing reasonably in that window of time . . . 14!? Good lord. I was still playing army in the woods. 15/16 is when things changed for me as I started driving. I had a new freedom/priviledge in driving and it changed alot of things. I saw the world differently and experienced things differently.

Paige, Somehow I had a hunch that was the answer I would see from you and thats the answer I plan to have when my daughter is older. I mean as parents we need to take a stance and be accountable to some degree and there is alot of gray here. Its a toughy.

pbans wrote:Yes, there are laws saying that young teens can't have sex.
The age of consent, by and large, is 16.....as low as 14 in some states.

Most laws have a configuration that includes the difference in years between the two parties.

17 in NY

I searched and I am seeing ages between 16-18 but the way its addressed amongst the states varies. Illinois is 17. I now need to go turn myself in for having broken the law.

It still is an interesting debate.

all i know is that if i were still in high school, and lafave wanted to get me naked...i would be all for it and thinking I AM THE MAN!!!!

hell...i would be like that right now

pbans wrote: I have a very mature 15 year old daughter, but I would destroy, literally and figuratively, any adult male that took advantage of her youth and the glorious naivete that she gets to possess for such a short time.

what if she pursued them and took the advantage knowing full well what she was doing? would you do the same to her? I doubt it

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

12vmanRick wrote:it's not like a child or kid doesn't know what they are doing. These children or kids as you call them KNOW what they are doing, know about sex, etc.
Where is the fairness in the law when an underage person pursues the older person? don't give me this bullsheet about it's the adults responsibility to say NO. Have you opened your eyes and seen the development of the boys and girls in this society AND how provocative they both dress.

It most certainly is the adult's repsonsibility to act like an adult in a position of authority, say no, and walk away. If they can't say no and walk away they shouldn't be teachers.

sorry Jen on this one I throw the bullsheet card

at some point the CHILD as you people like to call these teens that know what they are doing need to be the predator and responsible for their own actions

And I'M still traumatized because Mrs. Burke DIDN'T make a move on me back in 1968.

She was probably just playing hard to get.

Wino you know wrote:And I'M still traumatized because Mrs. Burke DIDN'T make a move on me back in 1968.

She was probably just playing hard to get.

and you were playing hard

12vmanRick wrote:

Wino you know wrote:And I'M still traumatized because Mrs. Burke DIDN'T make a move on me back in 1968.

She was probably just playing hard to get.

and you were playing hard

I wasn't playing.

12vmanRick wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

12vmanRick wrote:it's not like a child or kid doesn't know what they are doing. These children or kids as you call them KNOW what they are doing, know about sex, etc.
Where is the fairness in the law when an underage person pursues the older person? don't give me this bullsheet about it's the adults responsibility to say NO. Have you opened your eyes and seen the development of the boys and girls in this society AND how provocative they both dress.

It most certainly is the adult's repsonsibility to act like an adult in a position of authority, say no, and walk away. If they can't say no and walk away they shouldn't be teachers.

sorry Jen on this one I throw the bullsheet card

at some point the CHILD as you people like to call these teens that know what they are doing need to be the predator and responsible for their own actions

Sorry, but I'm throwing it right back.... Unless the child sexually assaults the adult (and in which case should be arrested and charged) it's up to the adult to put a stop to an inappropriate relationship.

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

12vmanRick wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

12vmanRick wrote:it's not like a child or kid doesn't know what they are doing. These children or kids as you call them KNOW what they are doing, know about sex, etc.
Where is the fairness in the law when an underage person pursues the older person? don't give me this bullsheet about it's the adults responsibility to say NO. Have you opened your eyes and seen the development of the boys and girls in this society AND how provocative they both dress.

It most certainly is the adult's repsonsibility to act like an adult in a position of authority, say no, and walk away. If they can't say no and walk away they shouldn't be teachers.

sorry Jen on this one I throw the bullsheet card

at some point the CHILD as you people like to call these teens that know what they are doing need to be the predator and responsible for their own actions

Sorry, but I'm throwing it right back.... Unless the child sexually assaults the adult (and in which case should be arrested and charged) it's up to the adult to put a stop to an inappropriate relationship.

then we'll have to agree to disagree

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

12vmanRick wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

12vmanRick wrote:it's not like a child or kid doesn't know what they are doing. These children or kids as you call them KNOW what they are doing, know about sex, etc.
Where is the fairness in the law when an underage person pursues the older person? don't give me this bullsheet about it's the adults responsibility to say NO. Have you opened your eyes and seen the development of the boys and girls in this society AND how provocative they both dress.

It most certainly is the adult's repsonsibility to act like an adult in a position of authority, say no, and walk away. If they can't say no and walk away they shouldn't be teachers.

sorry Jen on this one I throw the bullsheet card

at some point the CHILD as you people like to call these teens that know what they are doing need to be the predator and responsible for their own actions

Sorry, but I'm throwing it right back.... Unless the child sexually assaults the adult (and in which case should be arrested and charged) it's up to the adult to put a stop to an inappropriate relationship.

Children can't grasp "sex" at which point children are victims. TEENS as is the case in this and similar instances do understand to a greater degree of what sex is. I'm with Rick on this one in that there is some of this load bearing on the TEEN. SHould an adult say no? Yes a secure and stable one should but if we step back and examine the pair here odds are likely both are dysfunctional in some manner meaning their ability to make sound and rational decisions is askew. It's a crap shoot no matter how you slice it.