Posted: December 13, 2007 11:24 am
I wish I could drop weight like Sammy and Pudge Rodriguez. I can't stick to a diet like those guys.LIPH wrote:Sammy "the incredible shrinking man" Sosa? I'm shocked
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Posted: December 13, 2007 11:25 am
I had season tickets for the Rangers back in the 90's when they were the most juiced team in the majors.ConchRepublican wrote: JUST GOT THIS ACROSS THE MY WIRE AT WORK, HAVE NO IDEA IF IT’S RIGHT…ONLY LOOKS TO BE ABOUT HALF, BUT HERE YOU GO:
“Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Bar ry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton B radley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozz ie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenn y Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Fr anklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Jua n Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, jackkindregan (9:54:45 AM) : Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gon zalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Ma rk McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham
More . . .
Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, R obert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offe rman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, A lbert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez , Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood.”
I see Canseco, Gonzales, Palmiero, Rodriguez, Sosa from that era on the list
they are missing a few, most notably Ruben Sierra
Posted: December 13, 2007 11:27 am
I always wondered about the borderline guys and how many there were who steriods made ML players. Not that Varitek is a borderline guy, but as a catcher, could the boast they give him, added to his natural affinity/intelligence for the game, make him the player he is? Would he be Crash Davis without them?chippewa wrote:Jason Varitek? Why take them unless they would help you get into the Hall?
How many other guys are the so-called AAAA guys who light up minor league pitching but never really click on the major league level. Steroids would possibly help them stick as role players, 4th outfielders, etc.
Posted: December 13, 2007 11:32 am
Milton Bradley? Maybe Hasbro should have their own internal investigation. I have to say, Electronic Battleship is like regular Battleship on steroids!ConchRepublican wrote:I came across this in the Metsblog comments section:
JUST GOT THIS ACROSS THE MY WIRE AT WORK, HAVE NO IDEA IF IT’S RIGHT…ONLY LOOKS TO BE ABOUT HALF, BUT HERE YOU GO:
“Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Bar ry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton B radley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozz ie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenn y Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Fr anklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Jua n Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, jackkindregan (9:54:45 AM) : Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gon zalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Ma rk McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham
Posted: December 13, 2007 11:32 am
Exactly, you just don't know. Let's just chuck all the records after 1980 or so and start over.ConchRepublican wrote:I always wondered about the borderline guys and how many there were who steriods made ML players. Not that Varitek is a borderline guy, but as a catcher, could the boast they give him, added to his natural affinity/intelligence for the game, make him the player he is? Would he be Crash Davis without them?chippewa wrote:Jason Varitek? Why take them unless they would help you get into the Hall?
How many other guys are the so-called AAAA guys who light up minor league pitching but never really click on the major league level. Steroids would possibly help them stick as role players, 4th outfielders, etc.
Posted: December 13, 2007 11:33 am
Here's Nomar at his 'roid peak:Capt.Flock wrote:ConchRepublican wrote:I came across this in the Metsblog comments section:
JUST GOT THIS ACROSS THE MY WIRE AT WORK, HAVE NO IDEA IF IT’S RIGHT…ONLY LOOKS TO BE ABOUT HALF, BUT HERE YOU GO:
“Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Bar ry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton B radley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozz ie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenn y Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Fr anklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Jua n Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, jackkindregan (9:54:45 AM) : Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gon zalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Ma rk McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham
nooo not Brady
Posted: December 13, 2007 11:34 am
Albert Belle, no wonder he was such a dickhead - 'roid rage.
Posted: December 13, 2007 11:38 am
Mo Vaugh and Rich Garces - what did they do, eat the laboratory?
Posted: December 13, 2007 11:41 am
I'm laughing at the guys that would pose shirtless while on roids. Nothing like flaunting it in your face. You wouldn't have time to play baseball if you lifted enough to look like that.
I think pitchers knew what the hitters were up to, and it looks like many tried to even the playing field.
I think pitchers knew what the hitters were up to, and it looks like many tried to even the playing field.
Posted: December 13, 2007 1:25 pm
Predictions . . .?
What will be the end result of this report . . . ?
Will none of the players on this report get votes for the Hall of Fame? (Varitek jokes encouraged . . . )
If people want Bonds out will people keep Clemens out . . . (top 5 bat all time . . . top 5 pitcher all time . . .)
Curious . . . what do you all think?
You pretty much know how I feel . . .
What will be the end result of this report . . . ?
Will none of the players on this report get votes for the Hall of Fame? (Varitek jokes encouraged . . . )
If people want Bonds out will people keep Clemens out . . . (top 5 bat all time . . . top 5 pitcher all time . . .)
Curious . . . what do you all think?
You pretty much know how I feel . . .
Posted: December 13, 2007 1:35 pm
I think they were both Hall of Fame players before the drug controversy so I'd still vote for them. I think McGwire was a one dimensional player and in my opinion the HRs aren't enough reason to vote for him. If he ever gets in then the Veteran's Committee has to put Roger Maris in. Rafael Palmeiro was a numbers compiler, never led the league in any major offensive category, never won the MVP and only made the All-Star team 4 times in 22 years. I think he's out. I think Bagwell was borderline, this will probably move him to the no side of the fence. Sosa? Good chance I'd pass on him too. Ivan Rodriguez was so head and shoulders above the rest of the catchers I might vote for him anyway. I thought Pujols would be a lock for the Hall but if he was juiced for the last few years maybe let's wait and see what he can do when he's clean. Varitek just lost my vote.drunkpirate66 wrote:If people want Bonds out will people keep Clemens out . . . (top 5 bat all time . . . top 5 pitcher all time . . .)
Curious . . . what do you all think?
You pretty much know how I feel . . .
Posted: December 13, 2007 1:39 pm
Do all 80 or so players on this report (if found accurate) get fines? Suspensions? Lose endorsements?LIPH wrote:I think they were both Hall of Fame players before the drug controversy so I'd still vote for them. I think McGwire was a one dimensional player and in my opinion the HRs aren't enough reason to vote for him. If he ever gets in then the Veteran's Committee has to put Roger Maris in. Rafael Palmeiro was a numbers compiler, never led the league in any major offensive category, never won the MVP and only made the All-Star team 4 times in 22 years. I think he's out. I think Bagwell was borderline, this will probably move him to the no side of the fence. Sosa? Good chance I'd pass on him too. Ivan Rodriguez was so head and shoulders above the rest of the catchers I might vote for him anyway. I thought Pujols would be a lock for the Hall but if he was juiced for the last few years maybe let's wait and see what he can do when he's clean. Varitek just lost my vote.drunkpirate66 wrote:If people want Bonds out will people keep Clemens out . . . (top 5 bat all time . . . top 5 pitcher all time . . .)
Curious . . . what do you all think?
You pretty much know how I feel . . .
Do you think people out who were planning on NOT voting for Bonds in the HOF will NOT vote in Clemens based soley on illegal steroid use?
Posted: December 13, 2007 1:44 pm
From what I am reading, Selig may use the punishment that was there at the time this started, which was... I think... a 10 game suspension??? I know it's a small amount of games and not the current penalties because this investigation started before the current steroid penalties were implimented.drunkpirate66 wrote:Predictions . . .?
What will be the end result of this report . . . ?
Will none of the players on this report get votes for the Hall of Fame? (Varitek jokes encouraged . . . )
If people want Bonds out will people keep Clemens out . . . (top 5 bat all time . . . top 5 pitcher all time . . .)
Curious . . . what do you all think?
You pretty much know how I feel . . .
Posted: December 13, 2007 1:45 pm
If Gibbons and Guillen got 15 game suspensions for buying HGH a few years ago, then you have to do at least the same for all of them.
I think people who won't vote for Bonds for the Hall won't vote for 2 reasons - the juice and the fact that he's an a$$. I'm not a fan of any of the teams Clemens has played for but I think he's done a much better job of dealing with the press than Bonds so that might count in his favor.
I think people who won't vote for Bonds for the Hall won't vote for 2 reasons - the juice and the fact that he's an a$$. I'm not a fan of any of the teams Clemens has played for but I think he's done a much better job of dealing with the press than Bonds so that might count in his favor.
Posted: December 13, 2007 1:46 pm
Kyle Farnsworth......but he was so nice and never flew off the handle
Posted: December 13, 2007 1:47 pm
just seems to me that if the main reason one might not vote for Bonds is steroids than the same mentality would apply for Clemens . . .LIPH wrote:If Gibbons and Guillen got 15 game suspensions for buying HGH a few years ago, then you have to do at least the same for all of them.
I think people who won't vote for Bonds for the Hall won't vote for 2 reasons - the juice and the fact that he's an a$$. I'm not a fan of any of the teams Clemens has played for but I think he's done a much better job of dealing with the press than Bonds so that might count in his favor.
the point being . . . in an indirect way, the Mitchell Report might help Barry Bonds . . . Hall of Fame voters would really look hypocritical if Clemens gets the vote and Bonds doesn't . . .
Posted: December 13, 2007 1:49 pm
When all the dates come out, I think a lot of writers will look what the player did pre-drugs. Some guys with established careers will have a chance for the HOF, but the guys who started using early won't. It'll be a guessing game, but I don't know what else you could do.
So why was Jose Canseco so vilified? He's just an old truth-teller.
So why was Jose Canseco so vilified? He's just an old truth-teller.
Posted: December 13, 2007 1:53 pm
because a home run bounced off his head . . .chippewa wrote:When all the dates come out, I think a lot of writers will look what the player did pre-drugs. Some guys with established careers will have a chance for the HOF, but the guys who started using early won't. It'll be a guessing game, but I don't know what else you could do.
So why was Jose Canseco so vilified? He's just an old truth-teller.
pre - drugs - I agree! Only way to look at HOF voting now . . . as much as I hate to say it . . .
now how do you determine the date on "pre drug" taking . . . from the point they got caught?
Posted: December 13, 2007 1:59 pm
It's a mess. Just heard on the radio that the report contains copies of personal checks from many players....maybe you use the date when the first check cleared?drunkpirate66 wrote:because a home run bounced off his head . . .chippewa wrote:When all the dates come out, I think a lot of writers will look what the player did pre-drugs. Some guys with established careers will have a chance for the HOF, but the guys who started using early won't. It'll be a guessing game, but I don't know what else you could do.
So why was Jose Canseco so vilified? He's just an old truth-teller.
pre - drugs - I agree! Only way to look at HOF voting now . . . as much as I hate to say it . . .
now how do you determine the date on "pre drug" taking . . . from the point they got caught?
Posted: December 13, 2007 2:13 pm
No i don't think there will be any punishment...just the character of some of these guys who said all along they didn't do it will be damaged...some we had a idea!.......steroids or HGH didn't help some of the careers of named people!!...Paxton Crawford to name 1!!!drunkpirate66 wrote:Do all 80 or so players on this report (if found accurate) get fines? Suspensions? Lose endorsements?LIPH wrote:I think they were both Hall of Fame players before the drug controversy so I'd still vote for them. I think McGwire was a one dimensional player and in my opinion the HRs aren't enough reason to vote for him. If he ever gets in then the Veteran's Committee has to put Roger Maris in. Rafael Palmeiro was a numbers compiler, never led the league in any major offensive category, never won the MVP and only made the All-Star team 4 times in 22 years. I think he's out. I think Bagwell was borderline, this will probably move him to the no side of the fence. Sosa? Good chance I'd pass on him too. Ivan Rodriguez was so head and shoulders above the rest of the catchers I might vote for him anyway. I thought Pujols would be a lock for the Hall but if he was juiced for the last few years maybe let's wait and see what he can do when he's clean. Varitek just lost my vote.drunkpirate66 wrote:If people want Bonds out will people keep Clemens out . . . (top 5 bat all time . . . top 5 pitcher all time . . .)
Curious . . . what do you all think?
You pretty much know how I feel . . .
Do you think people out who were planning on NOT voting for Bonds in the HOF will NOT vote in Clemens based soley on illegal steroid use?