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drunkpirate66 wrote:

BigR-KyParrothead wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:

BigR-KyParrothead wrote:they were both hall of famers before the steriod use imo...i would put them both in.

and your opinion on how their inflated play might directly effect other players from getting in the HOF?

if a pitchers bad stats against bonds, one single player, keeps him out of the hof, then he does not desrve to be there and vice versa for clemens and any potential hof'er he may have faced.


just my opinion

I meant that if a pitcher had to pitch hundreds of atbats of people taking steroids over the span of his career . . . his stats would be hurt considerably.

For me the report shows just how prevalent juicing was. In 2002, when it was announced that there would be one-time league-wide anonymous testing for steroids, 5-7% still turned up positive. I don't think it was as wide spread as Canseco said (80+%), but I'd be willing to beleive more than 40%. Since most users seem to be pitchers I think it balances out the individual HR numbers put up by a small group. I think it is also easy to narrow down the steroid era to after the 1994 strike. Between Maris in 1961 and the '94 strike the 50 HR mark was only reached TWICE! After the strike and before testing started in 2003 players hit 50 or more HRs 18 times! Since steriod testing began in earnest in 2003 only 3 players have hit 50+ HRs.

IMHO, juicing helped the superior players to acheive even more, but did little to help mediocre players acheive higher levels of performance.

gotta go with neither one of them barring a complete, independent clearing of names. Until then, the taint puts them in the same category as the Black Sox.

If you go by numbers alone, then Bonds and Clemens (and by good measures Pete Rose) MUST be in the Hall of Fame.

Wino you know wrote:

I'm an Altered Boy wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:wonder who those 3 people are who voted for 1 but not the other . . .?

I voted Bonds But Not Clemens but that was just to see who would be first to say "who the hell voted Bonds But Not Clemens"

I voted for Clemens but not Bonds for that exact same reason.

Now we ALL have our own opinions on this matter, but I do hope everyone realizes we're basing our beliefs on the findings of a liberal New England politician, so MAYBE we could wait for further proof.
Maybe.

YEAH, YEAH, I know how Bonds went from 170 pounds to 240 pounds in a few short years-hell, I did too, and nobody is accusing ME of anything.

DonutROIDS

Good cop joke, right


Hey Uncle Gary, I traded in my 6 pack abs for a 12 pack a few years back too

drunkpirate66 wrote:just can't get past 1 thing . . . its not that certain players took steroids or whatever . .. its that it effected other people who didn't.

If a pitcher threw to 500 at bats in his career of people on steroids . . . for guys like Schilling it would probably be more than 500 at bats . . . then that pitcher's stats are not accurate . . . that pitcher might have 200 more K's . . . or his ERA might've been .25 lower for his career . . .

therefore you can't ethically put people into the HOF who are guilty of using steroids because you are weighing and voting against other players who had their stats effected . . . how would not vote in a certain pitcher who might have had 200 more K's but at the same time vote someone in who might have 100 + extra home runs?

You can't.

I hear you BUT!!!!

BASEBALL PLAYERS HAVE BEEN CHEATING FOR DECADES!!!!!!!

Just for fun Google Cheating in Baseball or Baseball cheating.. only 582,000 hits Whitey Ford poured some damb horse liniment on his arm back in the 60's. It's not "new" news, but the gravity of the affect on records we believe to be hallowed is nothing short of obscene! Just for fun......... think of all the players who never made it to the bigs because they chose to live with integrity and NOT cheat. Think of all the players who's career's were cut short and it costs them and their families hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars. Look at all the Championships the Yankme's won with over half their starters juiced I'll go out on a limb here and guess Commissioner Pussy won't strike any WS titles, MVP's, or Cy Young's. But I do think the HR records might have issues.

[quote= Honestly, who gives a sh*t? [/quote]

I DO!

Why doesn't Sports Center replay the Big Mac ceremony where he looks the Marris family right in the face and tell them what an honor it is to be associated with such an honorable man and record The Marris family has too much class to make an issue about how Roger's record should still stand and not be tainted by ANY of the Roid Boys!.

Didn't Big Mac even kiss Roger's widow on the cheek?

drunkpirate66 wrote:

BigR-KyParrothead wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:

BigR-KyParrothead wrote:they were both hall of famers before the steriod use imo...i would put them both in.

and your opinion on how their inflated play might directly effect other players from getting in the HOF?

if a pitchers bad stats against bonds, one single player, keeps him out of the hof, then he does not desrve to be there and vice versa for clemens and any potential hof'er he may have faced.


just my opinion

I meant that if a pitcher had to pitch hundreds of atbats of people taking steroids over the span of his career . . . his stats would be hurt considerably.

Yep!

However, you had the juiced trifecta too

Gagne throwing to Lo Duca with Bonds at bat. The hitter won the battle of the juice.

Tequila Revenge wrote:DonutROIDS

Good cop joke, right

Yeah, it's a good one, but, in my case, I'm not real crazy about donuts (honest). So if you're trying to yank MY chain, it's more like cheeseburger-roids, steak-roids, or pizza-roids.

Hey Uncle Gary, I traded in my 6 pack abs for a 12 pack a few years back too

I opted for the keg.

Don't let anybody tell you differently-healthy people die too.
I know I'll die of something-it just won't be malnutritian.

Wino you know wrote:

Tequila Revenge wrote:DonutROIDS

Good cop joke, right

Yeah, it's a good one, but, in my case, I'm not real crazy about donuts (honest). So if you're trying to yank MY chain, it's more like cheeseburger-roids, steak-roids, or pizza-roids.

Hey Uncle Gary, I traded in my 6 pack abs for a 12 pack a few years back too

I opted for the keg.

Don't let anybody tell you differently-healthy people die too.
I know I'll die of something-it just won't be malnutritian.

You forgot HOOTERS!!!!!

Tequila Revenge wrote:

You forgot HOOTERS!!!!!

No I didn't.
I just mentioned things that are BAD for me.

Early results are similar to the way the rest of the world feels about this subject . . . split.

There is no defined majority on who should get in the HOF and who should not . . . people are set; one way or the other . . .