Universal Healthcare . . .

[STL PARROTHEAD]

Mal said "winkie" and it made me giggle..............hehehe





sorry......back on track now

you outta hear her say f**ktard

[AlbatrossFlyer]

here's my universal health plan. i'd be interested to hear any constructive feedback. it's actually quite simple and relies heavily on the free market and existing industries to implement it minimizes the government involvement.

1) the day you are born, the US government purchases a 10,000,000 dollar health care account policy for you from the private sector insurance industry. these policies would be competitively bid each year and bought in bulk to ensure the lowest cost to the government.

Setting up the scheme Congress would set inflation adjustments to increase the 10,000,000 over time.

your health care account would work much like a flexible medical spending account a lot of people have available to them as a work benefit.

2) over the course of your life you have $10,000,000 to draw on to pay your medical bills. when you run out, you run out so spend wisely.

you would not actually get the money. you'd be issued something like a debit card by the insurance carrier who sold the policy and you'd just swipe to pay. of course you can only spend the money on medical services. using the credit card / debit card industry to handle the financial transactions will also help control payment fraud since they already know how to do it...

3) you will help pay for this policy with a payroll tax on your wages.

the actuaries will need to work out details of the tax rate and if and how much would be subsidized with general tax revenue.

the poor and unemployed are still covered and the highly compensated pay more to support the system.

companies and collective bargaining agreements would no longer be allowed to offer medical benefits and the company costs currently spent on them would have to be transfered to employees / union member as salary increases and not kept by the company.

4) you would be free to buy additional account dollars above the 10,000,000 if you chose in the private market with your own money.

5) when you die, any unspent dollars disappear.

basically the insurance industry is counting on unspent dollars to reduce the cost of the policy to the government and hence the taxpayers who are buying the policies in bulk...

6) all service providers are required to set and publish pricing information for all their services. they are free to set whatever price they want, but they must sell it at the same price to all customers wishing to purchase it from them. no negotiated lower prices for selected groups.

Service providers can offer no cost services or not. However no service provider is required to render care if it can not be paid for. All published service rates must reflect the final and total cost of the service. no hidden fees or surcharges added to the bill.

that's pretty much it....

[krusin1]

here's my universal health plan. i'd be interested to hear any constructive feedback. i..

I like the theory, but I'm afraid the "when the dollars run out, they run out" part will have to change before something like this ever goes into effect.

I appreciate the thought you've put into it, though. First argument I've heard in favor of socialized medicine that didn't ignore market economics.

[mjeischen]

here's my universal health plan. i'd be interested to hear any constructive feedback. i..

I like the theory, but I'm afraid the "when the dollars run out, they run out" part will have to change before something like this ever goes into effect.

I appreciate the thought you've put into it, though. First argument I've heard in favor of socialized medicine that didn't ignore market economics.

I think this is handled in the way he details upgrading/buying more into the plan. You can add more at your will but that falls on you. The government gives you "X" anything else you are accountable for adding to the plan. No one can argue that $10m isn't a good start.

Accountability is one of the greatest things lacking in todays society. Anywhere we can add accountability is great by me!

By handling it this way it also allows the insurance companies and dr's to collect. The money is already paid in it simply needs to be allocated - no more collections unless it is for "elective services".

[jonesbeach10]

One question on the plan. Say for all intensive purposes this plan goes into effect Jan 1, 2008 and a newborn born in 2008 gets $10M. Now this newborn grows up and leads a relatively healthy life until he gets cancer at age 80. Because of 80 years of inflation, the $10M he was given in 2008 isn't going to get him the same care that $10M will get him in 2088. Wouldn't it work against the elderly in the long run because of inflation?

[mjeischen]

THere is mention of the adjustments for inflation as defined by Congress. This also could be head off by paying in more to increase your alottment.

[mjeischen]

Not saying the proposed scenario is the be all end all but it appears there are options to the issues.

Creeky mentioned the Aussies are all on board with this and it was from a historical stand point recently implemented within the last 20 years. I assume they have adequate physicians as she said she has received adequate care.

Canucks on board and hearsay is providing its a thumbs up for dem up dare eh.

I think where we miss the boat in understanding this is by not being able to wrap our minds around it. I still have trouble in seeing how a DR will remain wealthy and how the money flows through the system.

We all agree the system is broken . . .
I'm thinking its a good idea but the details need to be worked out . . . I haven't voted yet.

[chippewa]

In the above plan, a young child with a closed head injury could burn through most, if not all, of that money at a young age. If the additional insurance was not affordable to him, he'd better tiptoe pretty carefully through life with very few medical bills. And pray he never gets cancer.

At the other end of the spectrum, someone that lived a life with very few ailments would have millions left to spend. As mentioned in someone else's scenario, all of that money would be spent keeping them alive a few more weeks just to use the money in the account. Certainly that money might be better spent elsewhere.

[The Lost Manatee]

Having been married to a Canadian and my brother in law is Canadian, I have a daughter who is covered by the Australian Health plan and having served in the USMC I have had some experience with a wide range of approaches to medicine and insurance.

First, let's take a look at our current system in the USA. A system that has as many as 40 million Americans uninsured. A system that on a per capita basis costs twice as much as the next two highest countries on the list. A system that causes our products to be priced higher then those from other industrialized nations because our companies have to add the cost of insurance to their production prices. A system that isn't about health care but rather about treating sickness. A system that is about profits and about turning health care into a commodity. In most employer provided health care the employee doesn't have control of his or her care, only treatments, procedures and drugs that are approved are covered. This isn't a big deal if you break a leg but it does become a big deal if you are suffering from MS or MD or any number of other ailments. Remember, in 2006 more then 50% of all the people who went bankrupt did so as a result of being buried under medical bills.

Did you realize that the private health insurance industry in this country "costs" to administer health care is over 30% when you include profits, bonuses and salaries. According to the AMA, Medicare's administrative costs excluding salaries is about 1% and when you include them the cost goes up to 8%. If you eliminate profits from the picture, the health insurance industries administrative costs drop to 22%, which is still more then double the cost of the Medicare administrative costs.

Currently, if you lose your job, you basically lose your health insurance. Yes, you can do Cobra and pay the full cost of your health insurance. That's always fun when you are unemployed. If you take a job with a company that doesn't offer health insurance you will have to pay out of your pocket.

Frankly, we have to reform this mess so that our health insurance isn't the 2nd highest expense out there, following housing. Our current system is broken and is failing to deliver quality health care to 1/7th of our citizens.

Now, lets look at UHC, in most countries it covers emergency treatments, it covers routine medical treatments such as annual physicals, in many countries it covers preventative care. It is universal so that when you leave a job, you and your family still have coverage. In most industrialized countries, there are private insurance plans to cover unusual or elective procedures. According to several different studies done by the AMA the costs associated with either UHC or a Single Payer System is substantially lower then our current system and it provides the same or better health care to all citizens.

Most UHC/SPS plans allow the citizen to choose what doctor, hospital, etc. to go to for routine treatments. The plans permit the doctors to decide what treatment is required, not what treatment is permitted as determined by an administrator who may have no background in medicine and is paid a bonus for cutting costs. This means that if the doctor thinks you need surgery, you get it.

I know we have all heard the stories of people waiting for health care services and I'm sure that sometimes that is true. I also know that in this country that in many cases when you need to see a specialist or if you need an MRI or CAT scan, you can have a long wait. My ex father in law needed a double bypass, he was living in LA at the time, he was told by his insurance company what doctor could perform the surgery and was told that it would be 5 to 6 weeks. He flew home to Edmonton, went to the doctor there who told him he needed it and quickly, 5 days later he underwent his surgery. As a counter point, my ex mother in law wanted to have some cosmetic surgery done. In Canada she was told that she should have her private insurance cover it because the waiting list for such an elective procedure was lengthy if she was going to use the Canadian Health Care System.

In short, while I'm no fan of the government running social services, I'm certainly no fan of the health insurance industry. It has created huge profits while curtailing service and running up costs. Over the last 3 years the average increase for group health insurance has be in excess of 15% annually. At the same time, a number of health insurance companies have set record profits for themselves. This calls into question whether the health insurance companies are putting the patience's best interest first or their own.

I believe that it behooves us to look at serious reforms that include tort reform and that permits us to move from a system that currently leaves 1 out of 7 Americans uninsured to one that makes certain that everyone has affordable access to health care. And one that takes us from ranking 32 for quality of care to a system that allows us to be ranked 1st in care. Health care shouldn't be about profits, it should be about preventative care and quick treatment for illness. Our failure to take action will result in more Americans not having health care, which, not only threatens their wallets but all of our health because they won't go to the doctor for that persistent cough (which could be whooping cough or TB) and therefore put the rest of us at risk from their infectious illnesses.

This is not a simple issue and it is one that has been loaded with emotion and misinformation for a long time. This discussion needs to move past that of emotional sound bites and on to a serious fact filled national discussion that will allow us, as citizens, to make informed decisions.

[creeky]

Yes Australia. We have not always had it - been that way for 20 years or so. It is not perfect - there are some waiting lists for low income people for elective surgery - but basically anyone in the country if they get suddenly ill or injured - gets totally free care - no matter how long it is needed for.

And all governments are screwed up one way or the other

So a perfectly dysfunctional government like our own in America could essentially pull this off if it is administered correctly.

The only people who have to wait or delay on healthcare are people seeking "elective" surgeries - meaning treating non-life threatenting ailments or breast enlargement?

wEll this is the down side of it - eg, hip replacement surgery you would have to wait for - if you are a low income earner with no private insurance ... but then - if there was no govt healthcare - then they would not be able to afford to get it done at all ... so waiting v not at all ..... I would rather wait ....

Most of our hospitals are government run - these are all the ones you go to for "major trauma" ..... we have first class facilities. We have led the way medically with heart transplants - just to mention one thing. So our quality of care is right up there.

We have private hospitals. These are for people with private insurance - where you have your non emergency surgery. I went to one for my foot surgery. I paid 200.00 out of pocket for it -but was able to get it done the next week after the doctor signed the papers to have it done. It also takes the burden off the govt system and frees up a spot for a low income earner.

[Snowparrot]

Let me be one of the first Canadians to chip in here.
I cannot imagin living without health insurance, as so many Americans must. Here, at least, they don't ask for your credit card when you arrive in emergency.
Yes there are lineups and waiting lists, but we Canucks are good at taking turns. In general--though not everyone, always--we believe it is a good idea to take care of your neighbours, to co-operate, and have public safety-net systems.
Yes, we pay for health care in our taxes, and we do pay lots of taxes, but no one ends up owing a hospital $20,000 or anything like that.
As a government employee, I also have a good supplemental health plan (semi-private in hospital, physiotherapy, up to a limit, dental care--wow! haas that ever been useful, eyeglasses --exams and lenses) for which I pay, regularly, but which works to my advantage, on the average.
There's no problem with the government administering the plans--each of the 10 provinces has its own--the rules are clear and fair, and they don't disqualify you for the infamous "preexisting" conditions. Fair, I said.
There is a lot of debate in Canada about allowing more doctors and clinics to opt out of the government plans, so they can make more money, and offer faster services. Lots of debate, and very heated at that. The Australian system, as described by Creeky, sounds like the "two-tier" system so many Canadians do not want.
I also lived in France where, as a a foreigner, I had to pay dosctors' bills up front. It was pretty cheap and there are lots of doctors. Luckily my husband's employer had a health plan that reimbursed 80 or 90%.

My 2 cents worth... it's fascinating reading all these American rants about government!!

[RinglingRingling]

I think where we miss the boat in understanding this is by not being able to wrap our minds around it. I still have trouble in seeing how a DR will remain wealthy and how the money flows through the system.

We all agree the system is broken . . .
I'm thinking its a good idea but the details need to be worked out . . . I haven't voted yet.

who said they had to be wealthy? It hasn't been more than the last 80 years or so that Drs were more than tradesmen. The limiting admission to medical schools certainly gave it the illusion of glamour, but even if they are making $100k a year, they are still better off than the national average. I don't see medicine as a profession to become rich, I'd say it's more about helping people. (and yes, this opens the argument that they have to make more because of the costs, both of malpractice insurance and paying back their student loans).

[creeky]

Let me be one of the first Canadians to chip in here.
I cannot imagin living without health insurance, as so many Americans must. Here, at least, they don't ask for your credit card when you arrive in emergency.
Yes there are lineups and waiting lists, but we Canucks are good at taking turns. In general--though not everyone, always--we believe it is a good idea to take care of your neighbours, to co-operate, and have public safety-net systems.
Yes, we pay for health care in our taxes, and we do pay lots of taxes, but no one ends up owing a hospital $20,000 or anything like that.
As a government employee, I also have a good supplemental health plan (semi-private in hospital, physiotherapy, up to a limit, dental care--wow! haas that ever been useful, eyeglasses --exams and lenses) for which I pay, regularly, but which works to my advantage, on the average.
There's no problem with the government administering the plans--each of the 10 provinces has its own--the rules are clear and fair, and they don't disqualify you for the infamous "preexisting" conditions. Fair, I said.
There is a lot of debate in Canada about allowing more doctors and clinics to opt out of the government plans, so they can make more money, and offer faster services. Lots of debate, and very heated at that. The Australian system, as described by Creeky, sounds like the "two-tier" system so many Canadians do not want.
I also lived in France where, as a a foreigner, I had to pay dosctors' bills up front. It was pretty cheap and there are lots of doctors. Luckily my husband's employer had a health plan that reimbursed 80 or 90%.

My 2 cents worth... it's fascinating reading all these American rants about government!!

I think all our doctors have to do a certain amount of government work .... I know my surgeon does govt work and private work. The private work is designed to free up the "free spots" in the public hospitals to those without the supplemented insurance that you talk about - that I have - so I get all the other money back on things like yo usaid - dental, optical etc ....

Either way - I think both our systems are good!

[ConchRepublican]

I feel it is absolutely, positively, a bad idea.

It sounds good, and it means well, but it just won't work. I mean, I don't want to go on a rant here, but I just don't understand how people can live in this fantasyland and not be able to tell the difference between "how I'd like things to be" and "how things are". Everything the government touches gets red taped to death. Would you like to deal with the DMV while you have a ruptured appendix?

Why are people in England pulling out their own teeth instead of seeing a dentist??

Why do people come from all over the world and from universal healthcare societies, to see our doctors????

Free market is always the best way to go. The way to get the best and the brightest is through competition. I don't want a civil servant operating on me, I want a top doctor I chose and researched.

The best way to cleanup what we have is to cap lawsuit payouts. I think it is ridiculous we have people who feel they can ask for, and juries will award multi-million dollar payouts for misdiagnosis or other medical mistakes. Should there be something? Of course. Instant millionaire? C'mon, that's ridiculous.

I'm normally against capping anything, but is seems people don't grasp that insurance companies don't print money, and that when they hand out these awards that the insurance companies just increase rates making everything more expensive.

Reduce malpractive insurance and there will be more nurses in hospitals, which will then give better care. There will be more doctors not taking in their shingles because they can afford to do the work. There will be more doctors, and good ones donating their time to charity work or clinics because they will not have to process paying patients to cover their costs.

There will be more good doctors overall because it will be seen again as a rewarding humanitarian profession that will again be monetarilly profitable. Hey, help people and make money, not bad!

My $0.02

[buffettbride]

Mal said "winkie" and it made me giggle..............hehehe





sorry......back on track now

you outta hear her say f**ktard

I really like using bad words.

[buffettbride]

It sounds good, and it means well, but it just won't work.

Kinda like communism?

[LIPH]

I've seen some comments about tort reform. As long as the plaintiffs' bar in this country owns as many politicians as it does you can kiss that idea goodbye.

Disclaimer: The firm I work for spends an awful lot of time, and money, defending some of our clients against the plaintiffs' bar so my opinion may not be unbiased.

[krusin1]

In the above plan, a young child with a closed head injury could burn through most, if not all, of that money at a young age. If the additional insurance was not affordable to him, he'd better tiptoe pretty carefully through life with very few medical bills. And pray he never gets cancer.

At the other end of the spectrum, someone that lived a life with very few ailments would have millions left to spend. As mentioned in someone else's scenario, all of that money would be spent keeping them alive a few more weeks just to use the money in the account. Certainly that money might be better spent elsewhere.

Excellent examples of the point I was making earlier.

[krusin1]

Interesting anecdotal experience of dealing with socialized medicine vs. the U.S. version..

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110006785

Again, this is just one family's experience, but it may be instructive. Note the differences between the U.S. and Britain in the level of concern about "getting sued."

[ConchRepublican]

mostly the people that can't afford the insurance....

I don't believe that. Flat screen plasma and LCD TVs are flying off the shelves. Everybody has an iPod or blackberry or something. How many game playing consoles are out there and what are their costs?

Priorities are screwed up. People would rather pay for entertainment and let the government be their mommy and daddy and take care of the really important stuff.