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Its one of those political hot topics these days. I don't think I have all the information and in principle it is an amazing idea. I thought perhaps it would be a serious topic to discuss on an chat about.

I guess I wanted to talk about it because I don't feel I am completely informed which is just how politicians like it.

In support of Universal Healthcare we have European countries, Canada, and Cuba based on Micheal Moore's film "Sicko". THis can obviously be a skewed view but he interviews Dr's and patients within the system and all seem fulfilled and satisfied. Whats not to love about not needing to worry about insurance coverage? I know Moore is not a fan favorite but the topic is worth looking at.

One of the things I see for being against is examining our own Veterans Hospital Programs. It is essentially a Universal Healthcare System for a specific group as I understand it. My understanding is its a mess of a system.

Many people feel that the Healthcare Industry will never allow it at this stage in the game. Greed is too much of a factor.

Again, I'm not for or against I just wish to see others views on the issue and have an open discussion about it.

I say BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Since the government can't properly manage any of the other bloated social programs - medicare, social security, FEMA - The last thing I want is another tax increase to fund another governmental disaster.

I find it amusing that the socialized medicine crowd is trotting out the Veterans admin as a model of socialized medicine lately. At the beginning of the year it was the biggest failure in the history of the world. The veterans admin is a retirement benefit for people who served in the armed services. It happens to be run by the governement because those people worked for the government. I think there have been more bad times then good at the VA.

I'm not going to blow out all the Rep talking points on this we have all heard both sides. I would rather see some tort reform to protect the doctors from suits and outrageous liability insurance premiums. Prescription drug companies should also be restricted in their advertising of prescription drugs. Come on, if I have an ulcer, my doctor is going to prescribe or treat with best treatment for my case. Me questioning him with the Hey why don't we try Xxxxx? is just reduculus. Also drug companies that have complied with FDA regs for a drug should be immune from lawsuits. The FDA is a governmental body that regulates and approves if the representative of the people is happy with testing and results, the drug company should be safe.

STL PARROTHEAD wrote:I say BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

But why!? I mean your opinion matters being that you work in the field. Being that you are in the Healthcare Industry what is it the average man like myself doesn't understand about the issue.

Skibo wrote:Since the government can't properly manage any of the other bloated social programs - medicare, social security, FEMA - The last thing I want is another tax increase to fund another governmental disaster.

I can see your point here. Why is it so hard to do when others are doing it though?

I would likely say lobbyists - but lobbyists won't play much role in social security and FEMA that i am aware of. Obviously healthcare and pharmaceuticals have their lobbyists and have been known to alter the direction of the issue.

Until this year, I thought some sort of gov't sponsored health care was a good idea.

Then I had to actually deal with some serious medical needs for my daughter and husband. When I really thought about how complicated the process could have been had I needed to wait for gov't agency approval rather than managing my family's health-care needs on my own (with my private health insurance via my employer).

I'd rather pay what I have to through my employer and have more choices than be at the mercy of the government for health care.

Not that private-enterprise health insurance is perfect--far from it--but I would largely hesitate to expect the government to manage my health care needs the way I'd want it to be.

(I voted "I'm on the fence, leaning toward bad idea...")

mjeischen wrote:

STL PARROTHEAD wrote:I say BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

But why!? I mean your opinion matters being that you work in the field. Being that you are in the Healthcare Industry what is it the average man like myself doesn't understand about the issue.

I think alot is like Skibo says above..... the gov. doesn't seem to run any of the social programs well.
When you watch those movies.... do the patients tell you that "yea, I'm happy that I'm getting my knee done,,,,,,,, but it was a 2 year wait for the procedure" ??? that's the part they don't tell ya......

People want this, thinking it will fix the problems we have.... it won't. It will create all new ones..
Tort reform we do need! Leave the docs alone, and let them do their job!!! Also, they aren't miracle workers! If they prescribe a treatment, and you go along with it....... DON'T SUE THEM WHEN IT DOESN'T WORK!!
I keep seeing alot of good docs. leaving for places that they are protected alittle better........ look at Ill. you live there, they are leaving in droves!

and Drug companies! oh don't get me started!!!! Let's just say, MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!! where I work they bring lunch in almost daily to keep us and the docs happy....................

mjeischen wrote:Whats not to love about not needing to worry about insurance coverage?

Because if you have something like cancer, you'll die before you can get treatment.

We met some folks from London when we went to Mexico last year and I asked about the socialized medicine. She said if someone gets cancer they come to the US for treatment.

No one with a job should want universal health care.

The quality of health care would be lowered for 90% of those effected. Sure more people would have health care . . . but it would be sh it health care - not the quality more enjoy or currently rely on.

In theory I get it. But practically it would just not work.

What I would support is universal health care for children up to a certain age.

Universal Health Care would not be a good thing for the overwhelming majority of people.

Sorry. You can't take care of everyone . . . brutal but accurate truth from some one who works with the USCG and has dedicated time in some pretty crappy areas of the world to help those who need medical care.

When the government figures out how to manage itself...

Until then, no way.

mjeischen wrote:Whats not to love about not needing to worry about insurance coverage?

unfortunately... that is what is grabbing everyone's attention...

mostly the people that can't afford the insurance....
it's sad, because those that see that think all their worries will go away, and someone will be taking care of that for them.....

I would love to see where there was insurance available to everyone, but not in this way!!!!!!

STL PARROTHEAD wrote:

mjeischen wrote:Whats not to love about not needing to worry about insurance coverage?

unfortunately... that is what is grabbing everyone's attention...

mostly the people that can't afford the insurance....
it's sad, because those that see that think all their worries will go away, and someone will be taking care of that for them.....

I would love to see where there was insurance available to everyone, but not in this way!!!!!!

again . . . simply put - it would be sh it coverage. you wouldn't want it.

STL PARROTHEAD wrote:

mjeischen wrote:Whats not to love about not needing to worry about insurance coverage?

unfortunately... that is what is grabbing everyone's attention...

mostly the people that can't afford the insurance....
it's sad, because those that see that think all their worries will go away, and someone will be taking care of that for them.....

I would love to see where there was insurance available to everyone, but not in this way!!!!!!

Unfortunately that's a HUGE percentage of people!
We are BEYOND fortunate because my hubby works for local gov't....if I had to pay for the insurance that my employer offers (which BLOWS)....I wouldn't even get a paycheck.

pbans wrote:

STL PARROTHEAD wrote:

mjeischen wrote:Whats not to love about not needing to worry about insurance coverage?

unfortunately... that is what is grabbing everyone's attention...

mostly the people that can't afford the insurance....
it's sad, because those that see that think all their worries will go away, and someone will be taking care of that for them.....

I would love to see where there was insurance available to everyone, but not in this way!!!!!!

Unfortunately that's a HUGE percentage of people!
We are BEYOND fortunate because my hubby works for local gov't....if I had to pay for the insurance that my employer offers (which BLOWS)....I wouldn't even get a paycheck.

1. People can join the United States Military and have medical for themselves and their families forever . . . alot of countries with "free" (and there is no such thing) or universal health care have mandatory military service . . . sign up! Your country needs you.

2. Or you could move.

3. Get a part time job

4. Live healthier . . . hey! If people worked out more, ate better, drank less, didn't smoke like an idiot (yes, I believe all smokers are idiots) then you wouldn't need health care as much . . . I haven't been to the doctor in literally 8 years . . .

drunkpirate66 wrote:
4. Live healthier . . . hey! If people worked out more, ate better, drank less, didn't smoke like an idiot (yes, I believe all smokers are idiots) then you wouldn't need health care as much . . . I haven't been to the doctor in literally 8 years . . .

It's very expensive to truly "live healthier." Processed foods are cheaper than whole foods like fresh fruits, veggies, and meats. When we stopped buying processed food and only bought fresh stuff, our grocery bill tripled. To feed 4 people, I spend almost what we make for our house payment in food. It's wayyyyy cheaper to buy a big economy bag of spaghetti, cereal, etc. to feed the family than it is to only eat unprocessed stuff. It seriously makes me consider planting a garden so I don't have to buy as much food!

All that crap you see on boxes now like "made with whole grains" it's all crap food. Even bread. It's all bad bad bad bad bad. (And I seriously read the label of every single food I buy). The stuff in our food is crap.

It's really about the cost of insurance to me. I work for a small company with crap insurance. I use my wife's insurance. My wife is a teacher - in her contract negotiations her health insurance tends to be the 1st thing compromised. We went from no out-of-pocket for my daughter to $4k out of pocket for my son. Naturally I wouldn't sit there and say scrwe this my kids not worth $4k.

The military isn't for everyone though and some people like myself have family histories of medical issues which aren't so much a live healthier issue - though it does help. People argue that the VA system is junk anyway so it's not a viable source.

See in thinking about this, Insurance and Drug companies can easily say . . . how much is your life or condition of life worth to you? They get you by the goody sack there. Who doesn't want to live a long quality life!? Now you find youself in positions to pay for that - be it through drugs or what your Dr says you need that insurance may not cover.

I don't know. It's easy to say the govenment sucks and they can't handle it. I can't say I disagree either but things can't continue as they are.

I can't see the issue being with Healthcare providers persay but due to poor protection from lawsuits leaves them to raise prices or leave.

pbans wrote:

STL PARROTHEAD wrote:

mjeischen wrote:Whats not to love about not needing to worry about insurance coverage?

unfortunately... that is what is grabbing everyone's attention...

mostly the people that can't afford the insurance....
it's sad, because those that see that think all their worries will go away, and someone will be taking care of that for them.....

I would love to see where there was insurance available to everyone, but not in this way!!!!!!

Unfortunately that's a HUGE percentage of people!
We are BEYOND fortunate because my hubby works for local gov't....if I had to pay for the insurance that my employer offers (which BLOWS)....I wouldn't even get a paycheck.

there are families that the spouse goes to work just for the insurance...and the majority of her paycheck does go for family health care ...

at least, the coverage is probably far superior than what they'd get from universal health care.

mjeischen wrote: The military isn't for everyone .

Just call me Seargant Mallory!

drunkpirate66 wrote:
4. Live healthier . . . hey! If people worked out more, ate better, drank less, didn't smoke like an idiot (yes, I believe all smokers are idiots) then you wouldn't need health care as much . . . I haven't been to the doctor in literally 8 years . . .

ohhhhh! you may be a ticking time bomb!!!