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Chicago O'Hare Ground Radar Criticized

Posted: January 24, 2008 7:27 pm
by pojo
O'Hare Radar System Is Criticized

By TARA BURGHART
Associated Press Writer

CHICAGO (AP) -- A new ground radar system designed to prevent runway collisions at the nation's busiest airports loses accuracy during snowstorms at O'Hare Airport and can fail to see snowplows, baggage carts and other vehicles, the president of the local air traffic controllers union warned on Thursday.

Joseph Bellino, president of the O'Hare affiliate of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association, said the system is putting the public in danger.

"When we say `cleared to land,' we're saying that runway is clear of all obstructions on the runway. If it's snowing, we say it, but we're keeping our fingers crossed," he said.

The Federal Aviation Administration denied the situation is as bad as Bellino portrayed it, and said it usually takes a year to fine-tune the software to account for differences in airport layout and weather. The system has been in operation at O'Hare - the nation's second-busiest airport and one of its snowiest - since July.

"The controllers union leadership shouldn't be trying to scare the public," said FAA spokesman Tony Molinaro. He said ground radar is a "secondary tool" used by controllers trained to use their eyes and conversations with pilots to avoid problems.

Molinaro also said the system is better than its predecessor at helping controllers keep track of objects other than planes. The old system sometimes produced false or duplicate images during heavy rain.

No collisions have been blamed on the new system, called Airport Surface Detection Equipment, Model X, or ASDE-X.

Jeff Gilde, president of Louisville International Airport's controllers local, said that on the eve of the Kentucky Derby in early May, a heavy rain "made the system go completely blank, and it did not come back up."

"Basically, the tower visibility was zero. So we could not see out the window and we could not see anybody on radar," he said. "And we actually had an aircraft cross in front of another aircraft that was landing."

Gilde said most of the airport's initial problems with the system have worked out, but estimated false system alarms result in a plane not being allowed to immediately land at Louisville once every couple weeks.

"For a safety system to be 100 percent effective, it should work 100 percent of the time, and this does not," Gilde said.

The technology was first installed at the Milwaukee airport in 2003 after years of testing. It is now in operation at 11 airports, with plans for 24 more by 2011, according to the FAA.

The FAA acknowledged that during a heavy snowstorm earlier this month, ASDE-X had trouble correctly identifying long lines of snowplows and other movements on the ground at O'Hare.

In a statement, the agency said it is looking into whether the problem could be solved by equipping ground vehicles with transponders - electronic devices used by airplanes to send out an identifying signal.

The Milwaukee and St. Louis airports had similar trouble during the first year ASDE-X was in operation there, Molinaro said.

On average, it snows 32 days a year at O'Hare, according to the National Weather Service. So far this winter, it has snowed 37 days at O'Hare. The Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress, reported last month that O'Hare had the nation's second-highest number of near-collisions on runways between 2001 and 2006.

Bellino said he is particularly concerned about construction trucks at O'Hare as part of a $15 billion expansion.

Air traffic controllers in the Chicago region have also complained recently that they are weary and more error-prone because of repeated six-day work weeks. The FAA has said staffing is adequate. But the Transportation Department has opened an investigation of work conditions at O'Hare and FAA installations in the suburbs.

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:o :o :o

Posted: January 24, 2008 7:31 pm
by aeroparrot
Oh great. I fly through O'Hare to go to Stars. :o :o

Re: Chicago O'Hare Ground Radar Criticized

Posted: January 24, 2008 7:42 pm
by Y-NO-9-O
FAA wrote:"The controllers union leadership shouldn't be trying to scare the public," said FAA spokesman Tony Molinaro.
Or, in laymen's terms:
For crying out loud, don't let the people who actually DO the work scare you. We here in DC know better than THEM!
Kind of like Reagan banning all striking ATCs for life. Nobody needs highly trained people who have a mind of their own in a position to make decisions. WE NEED COMPLIANCY, NOT SAFETY!

Posted: January 24, 2008 10:22 pm
by BottleofRum
O'Hare is the worst airport in the country. Almost always delays. I can't tell you how many times I have been stuck there for hours waiting for a flight.

And the drinks at most bars there are $7+.. :o

Posted: January 25, 2008 6:44 am
by aeroparrot
BottleofRum wrote:O'Hare is the worst airport in the country. Almost always delays. I can't tell you how many times I have been stuck there for hours waiting for a flight.

And the drinks at most bars there are $7+.. :o
Yea, I never really liked flying out of there either.

Posted: January 25, 2008 8:15 am
by Skibo
aeroparrot wrote:
BottleofRum wrote:O'Hare is the worst airport in the country. Almost always delays. I can't tell you how many times I have been stuck there for hours waiting for a flight.

And the drinks at most bars there are $7+.. :o
Yea, I never really liked flying out of there either.
I have never had a problem at Ohare. Of course I don't fly through there in the winter, I connect through St. Louis or Dallas instead.

As far as worst airport in the country, try flying through Philadelphia regularly, it is a coinflip between Philly and Boston Logan.

Posted: January 25, 2008 9:31 am
by RinglingRingling
Skibo wrote:
aeroparrot wrote:
BottleofRum wrote:O'Hare is the worst airport in the country. Almost always delays. I can't tell you how many times I have been stuck there for hours waiting for a flight.

And the drinks at most bars there are $7+.. :o
Yea, I never really liked flying out of there either.
I have never had a problem at Ohare. Of course I don't fly through there in the winter, I connect through St. Louis or Dallas instead.

As far as worst airport in the country, try flying through Philadelphia regularly, it is a coinflip between Philly and Boston Logan.
no. Philly, hubbed for USAir, not much of a problem if it gets stacked up. Logan, problematic in the NE, but enough sites to reroute.

ORD stacked and jammed.. that pretty much turns the whole country on its ear.

Posted: January 25, 2008 9:52 am
by blackjack
I think Atlanta is the worst I've encountered.

Posted: January 25, 2008 1:30 pm
by docandjeanie
:o oh great, I will be flying through Chicago in a week. I hate the wait on the runway there, I have been on a plane for 1 1/2 hrs waiting to take off.

All the times, I have been through Philly, not too bad.

Posted: January 25, 2008 2:05 pm
by Tequila Revenge
Looks like another bad case of, "Lowest competitive bid."

Posted: January 25, 2008 2:15 pm
by BottleofRum
Skibo wrote:
aeroparrot wrote:
BottleofRum wrote:O'Hare is the worst airport in the country. Almost always delays. I can't tell you how many times I have been stuck there for hours waiting for a flight.

And the drinks at most bars there are $7+.. :o
Yea, I never really liked flying out of there either.
I have never had a problem at Ohare. Of course I don't fly through there in the winter, I connect through St. Louis or Dallas instead.

As far as worst airport in the country, try flying through Philadelphia regularly, it is a coinflip between Philly and Boston Logan.

Boston for me isn't bad because I have only flown from and to it, never had a layover there. I do like how Boston is pretty much in the city though. Other airports can be miles and miles outside the city.

If you're flying in the winter and have a layover in Chicago or Detroit be prepared to spend more time in those airports that you expected.

I used to work with a woman who was once a flight attendant for United and she said every month when they would pick what "routes" they wanted for the following month any flights to and from Chicago were the least ones picked, the new people always got stuck with them.

Posted: January 25, 2008 2:20 pm
by LIPH
Try flying to or from LaGuardia, it's the worst shithole of an airport I've ever been in.

Posted: January 25, 2008 3:00 pm
by BottleofRum
LIPH wrote:Try flying to or from LaGuardia, it's the worst shithole of an airport I've ever been in.
Never been there but I do have a layover at JFK in March on my way to Vegas that I am dreading. Esp b/c I am taking an afternoon flight.