Are Higher Oil Prices Changing Your Lifestyle?

[horseyparrot]

WELL.

I'm pretty much screwed in the gas department. I drive a '97 dodge ram 4x4 w/ the 318 (crappiest engine ever no matter what my hubby says--will 'run forever' but s*** oil, make noises, and get $hitty gas mileage) and now that it's paid off and hubby is going to vet school (and i'm going to support our farm mortgage and our sorry a$$es with my paltry salary) I will be driving the thing until it croaks, or I do....whichever comes first. My commute (since i live in BFE) is 60-70 miles round trip, 5 days a week. I do grocery shopping on the way home, not just to save gas but because i hate making a separate trip w/ all the other driving I do. If we have to go anywhere on the weekend, we take the Jeep Liberty that my hubby has for work.......it gets considerably better mileage than the truck.
THat being said, hubby logs over 35K miles a year for work w/ said Liberty. It's Tuesday night and he's logged over 700 miles this week already........left here monday morning. (had an interview for vet school that took him 7 hours out of his way) He'll get 21-22 MPG with it on the highway, but still. Why not a car? Because he works for a company that makes equipment for dairy farms, and often has to go to upstate new york in the dead of winter, driving down farm lanes. Non-4WD is NOT an option.
So, we're pretty much F%$^ed with the gas prices. Living in PA, there's not much biofuel out here, although there are more stations using ethanol in their regular.....but they don't offer E85 or anything like that. So we can't even choose it. And with being on a farm, VW golfs aren't really an option---unless i dont' want to drive it Dec-april. WOuld get stuck in the mud....not to mention any snow or ice we might have.

BTW, why don't you like ethanol, Garry?? I would have thought you'd be all about it. It's not like it's the reason for rising food prices or that farmers are going to get rich----that'll never happen. It's just urban legend. The middlemen and oil company peeps are the only ones that will make out, as usual.

[Tequila Revenge]

WELL.


BTW, why don't you like ethanol, Garry?? I would have thought you'd be all about it. It's not like it's the reason for rising food prices or that farmers are going to get rich----that'll never happen. It's just urban legend. The middlemen and oil company peeps are the only ones that will make out, as usual.

It take more energy to make ethanol than gasoline. It's a scam for sure.

[horseyparrot]

WELL.


BTW, why don't you like ethanol, Garry?? I would have thought you'd be all about it. It's not like it's the reason for rising food prices or that farmers are going to get rich----that'll never happen. It's just urban legend. The middlemen and oil company peeps are the only ones that will make out, as usual.

It take more energy to make ethanol than gasoline. It's a scam for sure.

This is true, I have heard. Hubby and I had a lively discussion about it last weekend.
I dont' know that it's a scam, per se............my thinking is, surely SOMEONE knows how to make it work better, or knows of a similar synthetic-fuel-from-a-renewable-plant-type-resource that could be made.

I mean, if people can make Ipods and external hard drives that hold 250 gig and just run off your USB port (we just bought one) when that used to be all the memory an entire computer could hold a few short years ago, surely SOMEONE can, or has, figured out a solution here....and we're just not hearing about it.

[Tequila Revenge]

WELL.


BTW, why don't you like ethanol, Garry?? I would have thought you'd be all about it. It's not like it's the reason for rising food prices or that farmers are going to get rich----that'll never happen. It's just urban legend. The middlemen and oil company peeps are the only ones that will make out, as usual.

It take more energy to make ethanol than gasoline. It's a scam for sure.

This is true, I have heard. Hubby and I had a lively discussion about it last weekend.
I dont' know that it's a scam, per se............my thinking is, surely SOMEONE knows how to make it work better, or knows of a similar synthetic-fuel-from-a-renewable-plant-type-resource that could be made.

I mean, if people can make Ipods and external hard drives that hold 250 gig and just run off your USB port (we just bought one) when that used to be all the memory an entire computer could hold a few short years ago, surely SOMEONE can, or has, figured out a solution here....and we're just not hearing about it.

Why? People are willing to pay for much less. There is NO MONEY to be made in conservation. Saving "energy;" heating oil, electricity, gasoline, etc. is BAD BUSINESS. That is why there are gov't programs that promote solar energy, exploration of gas and oil and now the "fuel cell." It's quite simple, Conservation is BAD..... making "energy," something you van sell and make profits on, is GOOD

Oh, and being a farmer, I'd think you may have some pretty stron feelings about an economy for ethanol based on GMO corn.

The technology for the 100mph carb is out there.... and we;ll never see it.

Just for "fun," rent the movie, "Who Killed The Electric Car." If your blood does not boil at the end, you just might be dead.

[horseyparrot]

WELL.


BTW, why don't you like ethanol, Garry?? I would have thought you'd be all about it. It's not like it's the reason for rising food prices or that farmers are going to get rich----that'll never happen. It's just urban legend. The middlemen and oil company peeps are the only ones that will make out, as usual.

It take more energy to make ethanol than gasoline. It's a scam for sure.

This is true, I have heard. Hubby and I had a lively discussion about it last weekend.
I dont' know that it's a scam, per se............my thinking is, surely SOMEONE knows how to make it work better, or knows of a similar synthetic-fuel-from-a-renewable-plant-type-resource that could be made.

I mean, if people can make Ipods and external hard drives that hold 250 gig and just run off your USB port (we just bought one) when that used to be all the memory an entire computer could hold a few short years ago, surely SOMEONE can, or has, figured out a solution here....and we're just not hearing about it.

Why? People are willing to pay for much less. There is NO MONEY to be made in conservation. Saving "energy;" heating oil, electricity, gasoline, etc. is BAD BUSINESS. That is why there are gov't programs that promote solar energy, exploration of gas and oil and now the "fuel cell." It's quite simple, Conservation is BAD..... making "energy," something you van sell and make profits on, is GOOD

LOL. The sheer logic boggles the mind, doesn't it? Too bad our descendants won't have a planet to live on.....but some rich person will have gotten richer, for sure. (sigh)

Oh, and being a farmer, I'd think you may have some pretty stron feelings about an economy for ethanol based on GMO corn.

OUCH!!! That's rather like that 'all liberals are commies' and 'all conservatives pro-life gunslingers' argument. Sure, we farm. Hubby and I aren't personally invested in the crop end of things at all.....just hold the mortgage for the facility and own some dairy cattle and horses. However, it wouldn't matter if corn went through the roof----my father-in-law still couldn't make money off it, living where we do. The land is all shale and hilly, and corn is so F-ing expensive to plant (seed, weed, work ground, etc) and weather-risky, that he'd never make money off it. He never has. (not that he realizes it, though). I guess it's different out in Iowa and the rest of the corn belt, but corn can kiss my a$$ out here........if it were up to me, we'd never plant it again. It's a b%$ch of a crop. And if Monsanto and the rest of them (referring to your GMO comment) went belly-up tomorrow, it wouldn't break my heart. Sure, roundup-ready crops are a big help, dont 'get me wrong. But those companies have done a lot of harm to the agriculture industry (google rBST and Pennsylvania, see what you get) around us, PR-wise, and I think they've screwed particularly w/ the dairy industry and caused more harm than they're worth in some cases. You'd never find me in their back pocket. The number of farmers that would actually benefit from an ethanol demand and higher corn prices are slim. The majority are so far in debt or suffering for so long from bad prices, that the most it would do for them is allow them to break even. They're not laughing all the way to the bank, trust me. Only farmers like Ted Turner laugh to the bank!

So, no......I'm not necessarily pro-ethanol, pro-GMO corn, whatever. What I AM is pro-SELF SUFFICIENT and TIRED of relying on foreign countries for our sustainability when we wouldn't have to. There is so much time, effort, lives, and money tied up in this that it's going to be the death of our country.......already is. I think it was drunkpirate that referenced the fall of the Roman empire....it's really not that far-fetched, IMO. What I WANT is some d*m& SOLUTIONS instead of rhetoric and those getting pushed to the forefront, and made available to little ol' Jane Schmo......ME.

What I really want is a 1 ton black chevy or GMC 4WD dually that runs off hydrogen or french fry oil or some monstrous electric cell that will pull a house down. Or at least just pull my horsie trailer.

The technology for the 100mph carb is out there.... and we;ll never see it. <---I believe you.

Just for "fun," rent the movie, "Who Killed The Electric Car." If your blood does not boil at the end, you just might be dead.

<--believe this too.


Oh, to add: there's TONS of stuff we can feed our cows besides corn. Horses have hardly any in their feed too, so no issue there!

[sonofabeach]

before they worry about fuel I think they should work on fat-free food that's not also taste-free
They can put a man on the moon, now how about a fat free Big Mac? After that, alternative fuels would be nice too I guess

[Tequila Revenge]

WELL.


BTW, why don't you like ethanol, Garry?? I would have thought you'd be all about it. It's not like it's the reason for rising food prices or that farmers are going to get rich----that'll never happen. It's just urban legend. The middlemen and oil company peeps are the only ones that will make out, as usual.

It take more energy to make ethanol than gasoline. It's a scam for sure.

This is true, I have heard. Hubby and I had a lively discussion about it last weekend.
I dont' know that it's a scam, per se............my thinking is, surely SOMEONE knows how to make it work better, or knows of a similar synthetic-fuel-from-a-renewable-plant-type-resource that could be made.

I mean, if people can make Ipods and external hard drives that hold 250 gig and just run off your USB port (we just bought one) when that used to be all the memory an entire computer could hold a few short years ago, surely SOMEONE can, or has, figured out a solution here....and we're just not hearing about it.

Why? People are willing to pay for much less. There is NO MONEY to be made in conservation. Saving "energy;" heating oil, electricity, gasoline, etc. is BAD BUSINESS. That is why there are gov't programs that promote solar energy, exploration of gas and oil and now the "fuel cell." It's quite simple, Conservation is BAD..... making "energy," something you van sell and make profits on, is GOOD

LOL. The sheer logic boggles the mind, doesn't it? Too bad our descendants won't have a planet to live on.....but some rich person will have gotten richer, for sure. (sigh)

Oh, and being a farmer, I'd think you may have some pretty stron feelings about an economy for ethanol based on GMO corn.

OUCH!!! That's rather like that 'all liberals are commies' and 'all conservatives pro-life gunslingers' argument. Sure, we farm. Hubby and I aren't personally invested in the crop end of things at all.....just hold the mortgage for the facility and own some dairy cattle and horses. However, it wouldn't matter if corn went through the roof----my father-in-law still couldn't make money off it, living where we do. The land is all shale and hilly, and corn is so F-ing expensive to plant (seed, weed, work ground, etc) and weather-risky, that he'd never make money off it. He never has. (not that he realizes it, though). I guess it's different out in Iowa and the rest of the corn belt, but corn can kiss my a$$ out here........if it were up to me, we'd never plant it again. It's a b%$ch of a crop. And if Monsanto and the rest of them (referring to your GMO comment) went belly-up tomorrow, it wouldn't break my heart. Sure, roundup-ready crops are a big help, dont 'get me wrong. But those companies have done a lot of harm to the agriculture industry (google rBST and Pennsylvania, see what you get) around us, PR-wise, and I think they've screwed particularly w/ the dairy industry and caused more harm than they're worth in some cases. You'd never find me in their back pocket. The number of farmers that would actually benefit from an ethanol demand and higher corn prices are slim. The majority are so far in debt or suffering for so long from bad prices, that the most it would do for them is allow them to break even. They're not laughing all the way to the bank, trust me. Only farmers like Ted Turner laugh to the bank!

So, no......I'm not necessarily pro-ethanol, pro-GMO corn, whatever. What I AM is pro-SELF SUFFICIENT and TIRED of relying on foreign countries for our sustainability when we wouldn't have to. There is so much time, effort, lives, and money tied up in this that it's going to be the death of our country.......already is. I think it was drunkpirate that referenced the fall of the Roman empire....it's really not that far-fetched, IMO. What I WANT is some d*m& SOLUTIONS instead of rhetoric and those getting pushed to the forefront, and made available to little ol' Jane Schmo......ME.

What I really want is a 1 ton black chevy or GMC 4WD dually that runs off hydrogen or french fry oil or some monstrous electric cell that will pull a house down. Or at least just pull my horsie trailer.

The technology for the 100mph carb is out there.... and we;ll never see it. <---I believe you.

Just for "fun," rent the movie, "Who Killed The Electric Car." If your blood does not boil at the end, you just might be dead.

<--believe this too.

Sorry Horsey if the GMO comment was painted with an extra wide brush. Sounds like we're on the same page. Anything business has done that's a new idea and hits the market really fast has left a bad impression on our society; asbestous, numerous drugs, MTBE in gas, etc. But the corporations made bazillions at our expense. My parents and grandparents were farmers from Illinois and Nebraska. I was and still am appalled at the empty farm houses falling apart because the land was bought up and leased to some poor sap trying to turn a profit for ADM. Those bastards killed the family farm. It's the same as sprawl, only in a rural area and all about corporate greed. I'm all about self sufficiency and have been reading Mother Earth News since the mid 70’s: P: wink: . We try to buy our food from local farmers at the farmers market, drink local wine and beer and wish we could purchase free range chicken and beef for our meet. Hopefully that’s next.

GET THE MOVIE!!!

[Tequila Revenge]

about alternative fuels...

I bet in the next two to three years bio disel will be outlawed

[Wino you know]

WELL.


BTW, why don't you like ethanol, Garry?? I would have thought you'd be all about it. It's not like it's the reason for rising food prices or that farmers are going to get rich----that'll never happen. It's just urban legend. The middlemen and oil company peeps are the only ones that will make out, as usual.

It take more energy to make ethanol than gasoline. It's a scam for sure.

And in addition to what everyone else said, both of my vehicles get better gas mileage and better engine preformance with regular gasoline.

[Tequila Revenge]

WELL.


BTW, why don't you like ethanol, Garry?? I would have thought you'd be all about it. It's not like it's the reason for rising food prices or that farmers are going to get rich----that'll never happen. It's just urban legend. The middlemen and oil company peeps are the only ones that will make out, as usual.

It take more energy to make ethanol than gasoline. It's a scam for sure.

And in addition to what everyone else said, both of my vehicles get better gas mileage and better engine preformance with regular gasoline.

Just tell everyone you have "green gasoline," made from renewable resources... and they'll sing your high praises Gary! Hell, the coal industryy is trying like crazy to convince us they have "green" ways to strip mine and burn coal

[Wino you know]

Just tell everyone you have "green gasoline," made from renewable resources... and they'll sing your high praises Gary! Hell, the coal industryy is trying like crazy to convince us they have "green" ways to strip mine and burn coal

It's late, I'm tired, and I have to be to work in seven hours. The coal industry is trying to convince you they have green ways to strip your WHAT?

[inked-parrotthead]

We have switched vehicles,we have a Nissan Altima(love it) and a Chevy silvarado z-71 (love it more) Mrs.Inked works close to home so she drives the truck I work a bit farther so I drive the more pump friendly car,other than that we havnt changed much...Im not much on gadding around town shopping and stuff so I dont mind not driving as much.

[moog]

Same here. But I take the truck since work is only about 1.7 miles from me. My wife takes the car for her 20 min one way drive. I only have to fill the truck every three weeks. We are 2-3 minutes from all our shopping needs. This is Jersey. A mall every corner.

Also, I check the weather report to see which way the wind is blowing and I put the truck in neutral. Once, I miscalculated and landed in Cuba.

[Bfan53]

Also, I check the weather report to see which way the wind is blowing and I put the truck in neutral. Once, I miscalculated and landed in Cuba.[/quote]

I could think of worse places to land......

I'd really love to visit that country, but don't think I could deal with all of the "creative" ways U. S. citizens have to dance around our country's outdated "spending money" embargo.

[horseyparrot]

WELL.


BTW, why don't you like ethanol, Garry?? I would have thought you'd be all about it. It's not like it's the reason for rising food prices or that farmers are going to get rich----that'll never happen. It's just urban legend. The middlemen and oil company peeps are the only ones that will make out, as usual.

It take more energy to make ethanol than gasoline. It's a scam for sure.

This is true, I have heard. Hubby and I had a lively discussion about it last weekend.
I dont' know that it's a scam, per se............my thinking is, surely SOMEONE knows how to make it work better, or knows of a similar synthetic-fuel-from-a-renewable-plant-type-resource that could be made.

I mean, if people can make Ipods and external hard drives that hold 250 gig and just run off your USB port (we just bought one) when that used to be all the memory an entire computer could hold a few short years ago, surely SOMEONE can, or has, figured out a solution here....and we're just not hearing about it.

Why? People are willing to pay for much less. There is NO MONEY to be made in conservation. Saving "energy;" heating oil, electricity, gasoline, etc. is BAD BUSINESS. That is why there are gov't programs that promote solar energy, exploration of gas and oil and now the "fuel cell." It's quite simple, Conservation is BAD..... making "energy," something you van sell and make profits on, is GOOD

LOL. The sheer logic boggles the mind, doesn't it? Too bad our descendants won't have a planet to live on.....but some rich person will have gotten richer, for sure. (sigh)

Oh, and being a farmer, I'd think you may have some pretty stron feelings about an economy for ethanol based on GMO corn.

OUCH!!! That's rather like that 'all liberals are commies' and 'all conservatives pro-life gunslingers' argument. Sure, we farm. Hubby and I aren't personally invested in the crop end of things at all.....just hold the mortgage for the facility and own some dairy cattle and horses. However, it wouldn't matter if corn went through the roof----my father-in-law still couldn't make money off it, living where we do. The land is all shale and hilly, and corn is so F-ing expensive to plant (seed, weed, work ground, etc) and weather-risky, that he'd never make money off it. He never has. (not that he realizes it, though). I guess it's different out in Iowa and the rest of the corn belt, but corn can kiss my a$$ out here........if it were up to me, we'd never plant it again. It's a b%$ch of a crop. And if Monsanto and the rest of them (referring to your GMO comment) went belly-up tomorrow, it wouldn't break my heart. Sure, roundup-ready crops are a big help, dont 'get me wrong. But those companies have done a lot of harm to the agriculture industry (google rBST and Pennsylvania, see what you get) around us, PR-wise, and I think they've screwed particularly w/ the dairy industry and caused more harm than they're worth in some cases. You'd never find me in their back pocket. The number of farmers that would actually benefit from an ethanol demand and higher corn prices are slim. The majority are so far in debt or suffering for so long from bad prices, that the most it would do for them is allow them to break even. They're not laughing all the way to the bank, trust me. Only farmers like Ted Turner laugh to the bank!

So, no......I'm not necessarily pro-ethanol, pro-GMO corn, whatever. What I AM is pro-SELF SUFFICIENT and TIRED of relying on foreign countries for our sustainability when we wouldn't have to. There is so much time, effort, lives, and money tied up in this that it's going to be the death of our country.......already is. I think it was drunkpirate that referenced the fall of the Roman empire....it's really not that far-fetched, IMO. What I WANT is some d*m& SOLUTIONS instead of rhetoric and those getting pushed to the forefront, and made available to little ol' Jane Schmo......ME.

What I really want is a 1 ton black chevy or GMC 4WD dually that runs off hydrogen or french fry oil or some monstrous electric cell that will pull a house down. Or at least just pull my horsie trailer.

The technology for the 100mph carb is out there.... and we;ll never see it. <---I believe you.

Just for "fun," rent the movie, "Who Killed The Electric Car." If your blood does not boil at the end, you just might be dead.

<--believe this too.

Sorry Horsey if the GMO comment was painted with an extra wide brush. Sounds like we're on the same page. Anything business has done that's a new idea and hits the market really fast has left a bad impression on our society; asbestous, numerous drugs, MTBE in gas, etc. But the corporations made bazillions at our expense. My parents and grandparents were farmers from Illinois and Nebraska. I was and still am appalled at the empty farm houses falling apart because the land was bought up and leased to some poor sap trying to turn a profit for ADM. Those bastards killed the family farm. It's the same as sprawl, only in a rural area and all about corporate greed. I'm all about self sufficiency and have been reading Mother Earth News since the mid 70’s: P: wink: . We try to buy our food from local farmers at the farmers market, drink local wine and beer and wish we could purchase free range chicken and beef for our meet. Hopefully that’s next.

GET THE MOVIE!!!

No prob TR. Same page for sure. I've been reading that the "buy local" movement is going to outstrip the "go organic" movement in no time.......which, from a producer standpoint (and this PR major's standpoint!) would be lovely IMO. What do you see where you are?

(I think I just hijacked the thread.....my bad. But, buying local does save gas.....both for you and for the trucks that haul the food. )

[Tequila Revenge]

It take more energy to make ethanol than gasoline. It's a scam for sure.

This is true, I have heard. Hubby and I had a lively discussion about it last weekend.
I dont' know that it's a scam, per se............my thinking is, surely SOMEONE knows how to make it work better, or knows of a similar synthetic-fuel-from-a-renewable-plant-type-resource that could be made.

I mean, if people can make Ipods and external hard drives that hold 250 gig and just run off your USB port (we just bought one) when that used to be all the memory an entire computer could hold a few short years ago, surely SOMEONE can, or has, figured out a solution here....and we're just not hearing about it.

Why? People are willing to pay for much less. There is NO MONEY to be made in conservation. Saving "energy;" heating oil, electricity, gasoline, etc. is BAD BUSINESS. That is why there are gov't programs that promote solar energy, exploration of gas and oil and now the "fuel cell." It's quite simple, Conservation is BAD..... making "energy," something you van sell and make profits on, is GOOD

LOL. The sheer logic boggles the mind, doesn't it? Too bad our descendants won't have a planet to live on.....but some rich person will have gotten richer, for sure. (sigh)

Oh, and being a farmer, I'd think you may have some pretty stron feelings about an economy for ethanol based on GMO corn.

OUCH!!! That's rather like that 'all liberals are commies' and 'all conservatives pro-life gunslingers' argument. Sure, we farm. Hubby and I aren't personally invested in the crop end of things at all.....just hold the mortgage for the facility and own some dairy cattle and horses. However, it wouldn't matter if corn went through the roof----my father-in-law still couldn't make money off it, living where we do. The land is all shale and hilly, and corn is so F-ing expensive to plant (seed, weed, work ground, etc) and weather-risky, that he'd never make money off it. He never has. (not that he realizes it, though). I guess it's different out in Iowa and the rest of the corn belt, but corn can kiss my a$$ out here........if it were up to me, we'd never plant it again. It's a b%$ch of a crop. And if Monsanto and the rest of them (referring to your GMO comment) went belly-up tomorrow, it wouldn't break my heart. Sure, roundup-ready crops are a big help, dont 'get me wrong. But those companies have done a lot of harm to the agriculture industry (google rBST and Pennsylvania, see what you get) around us, PR-wise, and I think they've screwed particularly w/ the dairy industry and caused more harm than they're worth in some cases. You'd never find me in their back pocket. The number of farmers that would actually benefit from an ethanol demand and higher corn prices are slim. The majority are so far in debt or suffering for so long from bad prices, that the most it would do for them is allow them to break even. They're not laughing all the way to the bank, trust me. Only farmers like Ted Turner laugh to the bank!

So, no......I'm not necessarily pro-ethanol, pro-GMO corn, whatever. What I AM is pro-SELF SUFFICIENT and TIRED of relying on foreign countries for our sustainability when we wouldn't have to. There is so much time, effort, lives, and money tied up in this that it's going to be the death of our country.......already is. I think it was drunkpirate that referenced the fall of the Roman empire....it's really not that far-fetched, IMO. What I WANT is some d*m& SOLUTIONS instead of rhetoric and those getting pushed to the forefront, and made available to little ol' Jane Schmo......ME.

What I really want is a 1 ton black chevy or GMC 4WD dually that runs off hydrogen or french fry oil or some monstrous electric cell that will pull a house down. Or at least just pull my horsie trailer.

The technology for the 100mph carb is out there.... and we;ll never see it. <---I believe you.

Just for "fun," rent the movie, "Who Killed The Electric Car." If your blood does not boil at the end, you just might be dead.

<--believe this too.

Sorry Horsey if the GMO comment was painted with an extra wide brush. Sounds like we're on the same page. Anything business has done that's a new idea and hits the market really fast has left a bad impression on our society; asbestous, numerous drugs, MTBE in gas, etc. But the corporations made bazillions at our expense. My parents and grandparents were farmers from Illinois and Nebraska. I was and still am appalled at the empty farm houses falling apart because the land was bought up and leased to some poor sap trying to turn a profit for ADM. Those bastards killed the family farm. It's the same as sprawl, only in a rural area and all about corporate greed. I'm all about self sufficiency and have been reading Mother Earth News since the mid 70’s: P: wink: . We try to buy our food from local farmers at the farmers market, drink local wine and beer and wish we could purchase free range chicken and beef for our meet. Hopefully that’s next.

GET THE MOVIE!!!

No prob TR. Same page for sure. I've been reading that the "buy local" movement is going to outstrip the "go organic" movement in no time.......which, from a producer standpoint (and this PR major's standpoint!) would be lovely IMO. What do you see where you are?

(I think I just hijacked the thread.....my bad. But, buying local does save gas.....both for you and for the trucks that haul the food. )

I live in El Dorado County in Northern California. Besides Lake Tahoe and the High Sierra, we also have some of the finest wines, fruits, berries and veggies in California. The VALUE of buying local, (also a key component in the USGBC's Green Building LEED program) is catching all over CA, and helping the local farmers by taking out the middle man, so more profits STAY IN YOUR COMMUNITY. Farmers Markets are a BLAST! You get a chance to mingle with folks and we can buy everything from organic honey to fresh baked bread to home made soaps.

Oh, and we save gas too

[Crazy Navy Flyer]

I use my sails as often as possible.