Seriously, can we just ship Berkley to N. Korea?

[Dutch Harbor PH]

Because it's federal money. If Berkley doesn't want the Marines, fine. But that shows me they don't need any federal anything so yank their federal funding.

Doesn't that set a precedent then that any community that objects to any federal mandate risks losing all their funds?

Didn't they already do this by forcing every state to raise the drinking age to 21, the alternative being the loss of federal funding for highways?

Point taken. So we've already set the precedent and begun the slide down the slippery slope.

Honestly, as long as the local council hasn't passed any legislation that expressly forbids the recruiting office from being there I don't see a real problem. Let the protesters chant their slogans, and sing their songs and spout their rhetoric. I'm pretty sure the Marines can handle that. And the Marines will still be there long after the protesters have gone their merry way.

Wow...what a scitzophrenic (sp) community..... Hmmmm.....build bombs and the technology that goes with it and crucify ourselves for it..... Welcome to Bezerkely!!!!
I'm with Larry....Free speach is great...as long as it applies to Everybody....
The marines will do just fine.....they carry on

[flyboy55]

So now that the facts are out there, and we all realize that nobody's closing anything, merely exercising their rights to free speech, we will continue to argue about the 'fantasy' instead, the fantasy that those 'evil left wingers' in Berkeley (maybe they should be included in the 'Axis of Evil' even) are running roughshod over the rights of the USMC.

This thread is about to 'jump the shark'.

I don't have a good feeling about this . . .

Well geez, this doesn't sound all warm and fuzzy. From the CODEPINK website: "Our immediate goal is to have clear zoning regulations for military recruiting and to put citizen pressure to shut down the existing recruiting station that is just blocks from Berkeley City College, UC Berkeley, and Berkeley High School." They can spin it any way they want but it sure sounds to me like they have no problem denying freedom of speech to the "evil recruiting station". I can only guess that their issue with it being close to the schools mentioned is that they recognize that their children are too stupid to resist that persuasive sales pitch from those "evil recruiters".

No not 'stupid' as you said, just more likely to be manipulated by half truths and false promises . . .

FB55... no disrespect intended and I'm genuinely curious... what has happened that has caused you to be so anti-military?

I'm not anti-military. Trust me, I'm NOT anti-military.

I'm anti Iraq invasion. The invasion of Iraq wasn't based on 9/11. It wasn't based on faulty intelligence about weapons of mass destruction. It wasn't based on the notion that the Iraqi people deserved a shot at democracy American-style.

The invasion of Iraq was based on a number of carefully crafted lies for the obvious and sole purpose of gaining control of Iraq's oil reserves. That's it. That's all. There is no more.

Why would I want to see any more fine young men and women offered up as a sacrifice to such an obscenity?

Along those lines, I have no problem with anyone exercising their right to protest in front of a Marine Corps recruiting office, and I have no problem with the actions of the Berkeley City Council.

This has all happened before. I'm not 'drinkin the koolaid' this time around. Been there, done that, got the flag to prove it.

[Elrod]

Berkley is not your typical Marine recruiting office. It is an Officer Selection Office.

If a high school graduate walks in and expresses a desire to enlist, they will likely point him/her in the right direction. The mission is to recruit and screen applicants for the Marine Corps' officer programs - college degree required, that's why the office is located in a university community.

It's no secret that all branches of the United States military are currently involved in combat operations on a daily basis. No one in the Marine Corps is attempting to hide that. If a prospect doesn't raise the topic, the recruiter or Officer Selection Officer certainly will.

[Lightning Bolt]

So now that the facts are out there, and we all realize that nobody's closing anything, merely exercising their rights to free speech, we will continue to argue about the 'fantasy' instead, the fantasy that those 'evil left wingers' in Berkeley (maybe they should be included in the 'Axis of Evil' even) are running roughshod over the rights of the USMC.

This thread is about to 'jump the shark'.

I don't have a good feeling about this . . .

Well geez, this doesn't sound all warm and fuzzy. From the CODEPINK website: "Our immediate goal is to have clear zoning regulations for military recruiting and to put citizen pressure to shut down the existing recruiting station that is just blocks from Berkeley City College, UC Berkeley, and Berkeley High School." They can spin it any way they want but it sure sounds to me like they have no problem denying freedom of speech to the "evil recruiting station". I can only guess that their issue with it being close to the schools mentioned is that they recognize that their children are too stupid to resist that persuasive sales pitch from those "evil recruiters".

No not 'stupid' as you said, just more likely to be manipulated by half truths and false promises . . .

FB55... no disrespect intended and I'm genuinely curious... what has happened that has caused you to be so anti-military?

I'm not anti-military. Trust me, I'm NOT anti-military.

I'm anti Iraq invasion. The invasion of Iraq wasn't based on 9/11. It wasn't based on faulty intelligence about weapons of mass destruction. It wasn't based on the notion that the Iraqi people deserved a shot at democracy American-style.

The invasion of Iraq was based on a number of carefully crafted lies for the obvious and sole purpose of gaining control of Iraq's oil reserves. That's it. That's all. There is no more.

Why would I want to see any more fine young men and women offered up as a sacrifice to such an obscenity?

Along those lines, I have no problem with anyone exercising their right to protest in front of a Marine Corps recruiting office, and I have no problem with the actions of the Berkeley City Council.

This has all happened before. I'm not 'drinkin the koolaid' this time around. Been there, done that, got the flag to prove it.

I think FB sums it up perfectly.
This ain't the Gulf War, which was a universally backed defensive response to the invasion of Kuwait.
This as an INCURSION, going somewhere, unlike Afghanistan, where we had NO VERIFIABLE BUSINESS being!
This isn't "defending freedom", this about selling war as good economic business (???) for the defense contractors whom the Bush family are directly invested.
This is now a long-term tragedy in response to a terror attack, and it will certainly take many years to come to grips with the fallout.

It takes seemingly "insane" protests, like this one in Berkeley, to catch the short attention span of America's "remote-controlled" masses.

...and NOW you think your taxes should just be able to be cut???
Does that even sound remotely like a smart way to help this "war effort"???
How about really SUPPORTING our troops and their families... START BRINGING THEM HOME!
Still concerned about that next 9/11 that any Neo-Con would tell ya?...then GO SIGN UP!!

[krusin1]

So now that the facts are out there, and we all realize that nobody's closing anything, merely exercising their rights to free speech, we will continue to argue about the 'fantasy' instead, the fantasy that those 'evil left wingers' in Berkeley (maybe they should be included in the 'Axis of Evil' even) are running roughshod over the rights of the USMC.

This thread is about to 'jump the shark'.

I don't have a good feeling about this . . .

Well geez, this doesn't sound all warm and fuzzy. From the CODEPINK website: "Our immediate goal is to have clear zoning regulations for military recruiting and to put citizen pressure to shut down the existing recruiting station that is just blocks from Berkeley City College, UC Berkeley, and Berkeley High School." They can spin it any way they want but it sure sounds to me like they have no problem denying freedom of speech to the "evil recruiting station". I can only guess that their issue with it being close to the schools mentioned is that they recognize that their children are too stupid to resist that persuasive sales pitch from those "evil recruiters".

No not 'stupid' as you said, just more likely to be manipulated by half truths and false promises . . .

FB55... no disrespect intended and I'm genuinely curious... what has happened that has caused you to be so anti-military?

I'm not anti-military. Trust me, I'm NOT anti-military.

I'm anti Iraq invasion. The invasion of Iraq wasn't based on 9/11. It wasn't based on faulty intelligence about weapons of mass destruction. It wasn't based on the notion that the Iraqi people deserved a shot at democracy American-style.

The invasion of Iraq was based on a number of carefully crafted lies for the obvious and sole purpose of gaining control of Iraq's oil reserves. That's it. That's all. There is no more.

Why would I want to see any more fine young men and women offered up as a sacrifice to such an obscenity?

Along those lines, I have no problem with anyone exercising their right to protest in front of a Marine Corps recruiting office, and I have no problem with the actions of the Berkeley City Council.

This has all happened before. I'm not 'drinkin the koolaid' this time around. Been there, done that, got the flag to prove it.

I think FB sums it up perfectly.
This ain't the Gulf War, which was a universally backed defensive response to the invasion of Kuwait.
This as an INCURSION, going somewhere, unlike Afghanistan, where we had NO VERIFIABLE BUSINESS being!
This isn't "defending freedom", this about selling war as good economic business (???) for the defense contractors whom the Bush family are directly invested.
This is now a long-term tragedy in response to a terror attack, and it will certainly take many years to come to grips with the fallout.

It takes seemingly "insane" protests, like this one in Berkeley, to catch the short attention span of America's "remote-controlled" masses.

...and NOW you think your taxes should just be able to be cut???
Does that even sound remotely like a smart way to help this "war effort"???
How about really SUPPORTING our troops and their families... START BRINGING THEM HOME!
Still concerned about that next 9/11 that any Neo-Con would tell ya?...then GO SIGN UP!!

wow. just wow.

Just glad you and FB aren't in charge of foreign policy...

If you want my thoughts on the Iraq war, you can check the archives... no reason for me to replay it all here.

Ya'll just sound like two more victims of BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome.)

[krusin1]

Here's my bottom line:

Protest the war? Fine. No problem at all. Freedom of speech is one thing that makes this a *great* country. But figuratively spit on the young men and women who have sworn to protect that right, and if so ordered would die protecting you? THAT JUST PLAIN FLAT OUT P*SSES ME OFF!

(Standing ovation for SGH and C-Dawg)

[aeroparrot]

By saying the Marine recruiting office isn't welcome in Berkeley isn't the city council in effect saying the Marines don't enjoy the right to free speech while within the city limits? The First Amendment is a wonderful thing, as long as it applies to everyone.

I was just looking at the codepink website to see what they are all about and here's their reply to that exact question.

Q: Don't the Marines have a right to free speech and to do business?
Answer: The Marines don't even allow their own members full rights of free speech. So maybe you need to ask them that question. As far as doing business, cities have the right to regulate the businesses they allow into their community. Our initiative will give the citizens of Berkeley that right.

If you actually read the initiative it doesn't necessarily outlaw recruiting offices - it established boundaries for these offices, that they may not be within a 600ft radius of a Residential District, public park, public health clinic, public library, school or religious assembly use and that it may not be any closer than 1000 feet of another recruiting office.

Basically the same laws that many cities have against strip clubs.

What I can see the city doing is to zone the city in such a way that the Marines office is basically outlawed in the city. Not officially but by zoning ways.

[Missing B'dos]

It would be nice if you could learn to spell it.

[ph4ever]

It would be nice if you could learn to spell it.

IT

[Missing B'dos]

Injecting a little humour into the thread, eh? Cute.

[ragtopW]

would make it more difficult to open military recruiting offices near homes, parks, schools, churches, libraries or health clinics.

so where is the military going to recruit from? the penitentiary?

I suspect some of these people would be singing a different tune if Berkley was attacked by an enemy and needed an armed defense. People used to chuckle at statements like this.... before 9/11........

You are so right Jen! They would be the first ones to b*tch and moan that the military wasn't there to protect them!

sorry.. not those clowns.. they would blame America for making the
Bombers mad and start a support group for the Attackers..


<---- not kidding

[krusin1]

would make it more difficult to open military recruiting offices near homes, parks, schools, churches, libraries or health clinics.

so where is the military going to recruit from? the penitentiary?

I suspect some of these people would be singing a different tune if Berkley was attacked by an enemy and needed an armed defense. People used to chuckle at statements like this.... before 9/11........

You are so right Jen! They would be the first ones to b*tch and moan that the military wasn't there to protect them!

sorry.. not those clowns.. they would blame America for making the
Bombers mad and start a support group for the Attackers..


<---- not kidding

'xactly right. And then they'd start a program in Terrorist Studies at Berekeley U. Sheesh.

[ph4ever]

Injecting a little humour into the thread, eh? Cute.

And that's wrong because????

With spelling some words depend on where you're from - take humor for example, you are spelling it the way the British do, I'm spelling it the way the Americans do yet they are both English.

Besides if you're going to play spelling police you need to be a little more specific in your criticism.

[ragtopW]

would make it more difficult to open military recruiting offices near homes, parks, schools, churches, libraries or health clinics.

so where is the military going to recruit from? the penitentiary?

I suspect some of these people would be singing a different tune if Berkley was attacked by an enemy and needed an armed defense. People used to chuckle at statements like this.... before 9/11........

You are so right Jen! They would be the first ones to b*tch and moan that the military wasn't there to protect them!

sorry.. not those clowns.. they would blame America for making the
Bombers mad and start a support group for the Attackers..


<---- not kidding

'xactly right. And then they'd start a program in Terrorist Studies at Berekeley U. Sheesh.

kidnap a newspaper Heiress.. Oh wait that has been done..

[Catch&Release]

And since when are the Marines a business?

Since George W. Bush used the completely errant war as a blank check for businesses like Haliburton and Blackwater.

er·rant:
1. deviating from the regular or proper course; erring; straying.
2. journeying or traveling, as a medieval knight in quest of adventure; roving adventurously.
3. moving in an aimless or lightly changing manner: an errant breeze.


All three of those variations of the meaning of "errant" define the Bush "war on terror" as concerns Iraq.

[Wino you know]

Here's my bottom line:

Protest the war? Fine. No problem at all. Freedom of speech is one thing that makes this a *great* country. But figuratively spit on the young men and women who have sworn to protect that right, and if so ordered would die protecting you? THAT JUST PLAIN FLAT OUT P*SSES ME OFF!

Now how can anybody, ANYBODY argue that?
Well said, Jen. VERY well said.

Sorry, but I LIKE the title of this thread, and SERIOUSLY, Berkely should be annexed by North Korea.
G.D. TWITS!

[drunkpirate66]

I don't see the problem with this on either end.

[Lightning Bolt]

Well geez, this doesn't sound all warm and fuzzy. From the CODEPINK website: "Our immediate goal is to have clear zoning regulations for military recruiting and to put citizen pressure to shut down the existing recruiting station that is just blocks from Berkeley City College, UC Berkeley, and Berkeley High School." They can spin it any way they want but it sure sounds to me like they have no problem denying freedom of speech to the "evil recruiting station". I can only guess that their issue with it being close to the schools mentioned is that they recognize that their children are too stupid to resist that persuasive sales pitch from those "evil recruiters".

No not 'stupid' as you said, just more likely to be manipulated by half truths and false promises . . .

FB55... no disrespect intended and I'm genuinely curious... what has happened that has caused you to be so anti-military?

I'm not anti-military. Trust me, I'm NOT anti-military.

I'm anti Iraq invasion. The invasion of Iraq wasn't based on 9/11. It wasn't based on faulty intelligence about weapons of mass destruction. It wasn't based on the notion that the Iraqi people deserved a shot at democracy American-style.

The invasion of Iraq was based on a number of carefully crafted lies for the obvious and sole purpose of gaining control of Iraq's oil reserves. That's it. That's all. There is no more.

Why would I want to see any more fine young men and women offered up as a sacrifice to such an obscenity?

Along those lines, I have no problem with anyone exercising their right to protest in front of a Marine Corps recruiting office, and I have no problem with the actions of the Berkeley City Council.

This has all happened before. I'm not 'drinkin the koolaid' this time around. Been there, done that, got the flag to prove it.

I think FB sums it up perfectly.
This ain't the Gulf War, which was a universally backed defensive response to the invasion of Kuwait.
This as an INCURSION, going somewhere, unlike Afghanistan, where we had NO VERIFIABLE BUSINESS being!
This isn't "defending freedom", this about selling war as good economic business (???) for the defense contractors whom the Bush family are directly invested.
This is now a long-term tragedy in response to a terror attack, and it will certainly take many years to come to grips with the fallout.

It takes seemingly "insane" protests, like this one in Berkeley, to catch the short attention span of America's "remote-controlled" masses.

...and NOW you think your taxes should just be able to be cut???
Does that even sound remotely like a smart way to help this "war effort"???
How about really SUPPORTING our troops and their families... START BRINGING THEM HOME!
Still concerned about that next 9/11 that any Neo-Con would tell ya?...then GO SIGN UP!!

wow. just wow.

Just glad you and FB aren't in charge of foreign policy...

...ya'll just sound like two more victims of BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome.)

I've vocally opposed (and protested) this war in Iraq (but, mind you, not Afghanistan) since the buildup as a waste waste of U.S. lives and taxpayer's dollars.

I'm not at all bullied by flag-waving, shoot-first/ask questions later attitudes than I get faced with when I (and SO many others now) ask for real answers.

Hey, I can respect your opinion, but you have to reasonably acknowledge that, as Americans have been responding in many various polls, that yours is the MINORITY view
(holding at about 30%), so it's not out of cockiness that I predict that you'll see this attitude reflected at the polls in November, voting for CHANGE,
and that you'll see a considerable change in tactic taking place a little more than one year from now.

[krusin1]

FB55... no disrespect intended and I'm genuinely curious... what has happened that has caused you to be so anti-military?

I'm not anti-military. Trust me, I'm NOT anti-military.

I'm anti Iraq invasion. The invasion of Iraq wasn't based on 9/11. It wasn't based on faulty intelligence about weapons of mass destruction. It wasn't based on the notion that the Iraqi people deserved a shot at democracy American-style.

The invasion of Iraq was based on a number of carefully crafted lies for the obvious and sole purpose of gaining control of Iraq's oil reserves. That's it. That's all. There is no more.

Why would I want to see any more fine young men and women offered up as a sacrifice to such an obscenity?

Along those lines, I have no problem with anyone exercising their right to protest in front of a Marine Corps recruiting office, and I have no problem with the actions of the Berkeley City Council.

This has all happened before. I'm not 'drinkin the koolaid' this time around. Been there, done that, got the flag to prove it.

I think FB sums it up perfectly.
This ain't the Gulf War, which was a universally backed defensive response to the invasion of Kuwait.
This as an INCURSION, going somewhere, unlike Afghanistan, where we had NO VERIFIABLE BUSINESS being!
This isn't "defending freedom", this about selling war as good economic business (???) for the defense contractors whom the Bush family are directly invested.
This is now a long-term tragedy in response to a terror attack, and it will certainly take many years to come to grips with the fallout.

It takes seemingly "insane" protests, like this one in Berkeley, to catch the short attention span of America's "remote-controlled" masses.

...and NOW you think your taxes should just be able to be cut???
Does that even sound remotely like a smart way to help this "war effort"???
How about really SUPPORTING our troops and their families... START BRINGING THEM HOME!
Still concerned about that next 9/11 that any Neo-Con would tell ya?...then GO SIGN UP!!

wow. just wow.

Just glad you and FB aren't in charge of foreign policy...

...ya'll just sound like two more victims of BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome.)

I've vocally opposed (and protested) this war in Iraq (but, mind you, not Afghanistan) since the buildup as a waste waste of U.S. lives and taxpayer's dollars.

I'm not at all bullied by flag-waving, shoot-first/ask questions later attitudes than I get faced with when I (and SO many others now) ask for real answers.

Hey, I can respect your opinion, but you have to reasonably acknowledge that, as Americans have been responding in many various polls, that yours is the MINORITY view
(holding at about 30%), so it's not out of cockiness that I predict that you'll see this attitude reflected at the polls in November, voting for CHANGE,
and that you'll see a considerable change in tactic taking place a little more than one year from now.

Sorry, I don't agree that the majority of Americans want to cut and run (lose) in Iraq. Yes, while things were going badly, the public made their unhappiness known in a lot of polls. Now that things have improved, not so much - hence John McCain as a front-runner and the Dems in Congress giving up on "pull out of Iraq" efforts.

The only war we've ever lost was when Congress started playing military general. I realize a lot of ya'll want to keep viewing everything through the Vietnam lens, but that's not good for our soldiers, Iraq, or our country.
Last time congress stuck their noses into military affairs, over a million people died in the killing fields that followed our retreat. That cannot be allowed to happen again.

[green1]

The only war we've ever lost was when Congress started playing military general. I realize a lot of ya'll want to keep viewing everything through the Vietnam lens, but that's not good for our soldiers, Iraq, or our country.
Last time congress stuck their noses into military affairs, over a million people died in the killing fields that followed our retreat. That cannot be allowed to happen again.

There you go citing historical fact again.