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I believe God is everything and everywhere in every universe and microbe, and is connected to all things.
I was born a Baptist but now am a Presbyterian.
Presbyterians are not so uptight and know how to have fun AND be serious in church.

I have to believe in God, if I thought that I was fully in charge of my own life or that man was in ultimate charge of the world I'd be terrified all the time! I like to think that someone, somewhere knows what's going on.

And although I don't formally "pray" very often (I don't think that's really necessary) I do talk to God a lot and to me it's actually the same thing. I take it seriously if I've said I'll keep someone in my prayers, if I say I'm doing it, I do. Sometimes I just look up and say "Thanks!" Sometimes it's "Oh come ON gimme a break" or "Now you're just messing with me"
Whatver, whoever it is I'm certain He has to have a sense of humor.

I was raised Southern Baptist, then became an atheist, then Methodist (only briefly), now Presbyterian.

I pray fairly regularly, but not just when I need something.

Is Scientologist next on the list?

The Top 15 Least Known Chapters in "Dianetics"
"Getting Chicks To Say Yes: L. Ron Answers the Booty Call"
"Hey, If It's In a Bestseller, It MUST Be True!"
"Travolta 3:16"
"Making Your Own E-meter With Dixie Cups And Duct Tape"
"Chapter 26: In Which Luke Discovers that L. Ron Vader is His Real Father"
"Chapter 5: Rush Limbaugh Is A Big Fat Idiot"
"'Old Mother' Hubbard -- L. Ron, the Transvestite Years"
"Chapter 12: Geez, You're Still Buying This, Aren't You?"
"The Human Mind: That Vast Realm Half an Inch Behind the Forehead (Two Inches Back for Scott Hamilton)"
"When a Lawsuit Hits Your Eye, Like a Big Pizza Pie, That's Scientology"
"He's NOT the Telescope Guy!"
"Chapter 11 - How To File For It"
"Movie Stars -- Are They Gullible, or What?"
"Chapter 3: Post This on the Internet and We'll Sue Your Ass!"
and the Number 1 Least Known Chapter in "Dianetics"...

"Commandment Number One: 'Show Me the Money!'"

I believe.

But.........."I don't believe that heaven waits for only those who congregate. I like to think of God as love. He's down below, he's up above. He's watching people everywhere. He knows who does and doesn't care."

bocanuts wrote:Is Scientologist next on the list?

Latvian Orthodox wear way cooler hats.

I have to say I am deeply skeptical and am most certainly agnostic as to religion. I don't know if there is a God or not. I am most certainly an atheist if the God we discuss is the Christian God, Muslim God and so on as the historical proof just isn't there.


Three of the gosepls have Jesus being arrested after the Passover Meal, one has him arrested before, the census fiasco which as been proved a falsehood, the raising of the saints (perhaps my favorite as I love me some zombies) which is only described in one Gospel.

And so much more...

cocotel wrote:I believe.

But.........."I don't believe that heaven waits for only those who congregate. I like to think of God as love. He's down below, he's up above. He's watching people everywhere. He knows who does and doesn't care."

Jesus is coming and boy is She p***.

Raised Baptist/Methodist...

Today, agnostic leaning toward atheist...

Pretty much "I don't know and I don't care"

bocanuts wrote:I have to say I am deeply skeptical and am most certainly agnostic as to religion. I don't know if there is a God or not. I am most certainly an atheist if the God we discuss is the Christian God, Muslim God and so on as the historical proof just isn't there.


Three of the gosepls have Jesus being arrested after the Passover Meal, one has him arrested before, the census fiasco which as been proved a falsehood, the raising of the saints (perhaps my favorite as I love me some zombies) which is only described in one Gospel.

And so much more...

To argue the case that there is no God you have to assume some standard of reference, of morality, some basis upon which the very statement “God does not exist” makes sense. If everything is nonsense, if everything is chaos, then even the statement that God does not exist doesn’t make any sense.

I tried to find my translator to no avail. Are you stating that if there is no God then all is chaos?

No, what I'm saying is atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning.


If the universe is so bad, how did people ever come to attribute it to the activity of a wise and good Creator?

I think you are describing natural theism, correct me if I am wrong.

Natural theology attempts to infer the existence of a supernatural being from natural phenomena which allegedly cannot be explained within the context of the natural universe itself. Using facts of nature as his starting point, the theist attempts to demonstrate the existence of a god without
recourse to faith or revelation. Reason, it is claimed, is sufficient to establish the existence of a god.

The problem with this is this returns God to the lower case god, in which, for you, your argument verifies the existence of a supernatural god. That is where my agnosticim comes into play. Your argument may be plausible, as it certaily is untestable, as we can all agree. But it cannot and will not lead to the establishment of the existence of a creature with
the muddled and contradictory attributes of the Christian God. The best that natural theology can do for Christianity is to provide a foundation for rational theism, but it cannot erase the contradictions inherent in the Christian notion of God.

Now I need a drink!

I have no belief in any sort of higher power.

I've never had a reason to believe. While being baptized catholic, my parents never shoved it in my face and let me decide when I was a child if I wanted to attend church or not. As I was never told "this is the way it is" day in and day out, my mind was free to explore other options. While it may be easier and nicer to believe our efforts during our life lead to some greater existence, I have never been able to trick myself into taking that smoother road.

I think the reason religion is so powerful is because it offers answers to questions that science cannot (and maybe never will) answer. People tend to be scared of the unknown, thus making it easier to accept quick answers. Myself personally, I don't have issues with not knowing the answers to the "big" questions like how the universe came to be, how humans evolved into such intelligent animals, what happens after I die (nothing, I assume), and what are we here for (my thoughts, S happens).

Ok, I think I officially put too much thought into this.

bocanuts wrote:I think you are describing natural theism, correct me if I am wrong.

Natural theology attempts to infer the existence of a supernatural being from natural phenomena which allegedly cannot be explained within the context of the natural universe itself. Using facts of nature as his starting point, the theist attempts to demonstrate the existence of a god without
recourse to faith or revelation. Reason, it is claimed, is sufficient to establish the existence of a god.

The problem with this is this returns God to the lower case god, in which, for you, your argument verifies the existence of a supernatural god. That is where my agnosticim comes into play. Your argument may be plausible, as it certaily is untestable, as we can all agree. But it cannot and will not lead to the establishment of the existence of a creature with
the muddled and contradictory attributes of the Christian God. The best that natural theology can do for Christianity is to provide a foundation for rational theism, but it cannot erase the contradictions inherent in the Christian notion of God.

Now I need a drink!

jackson jake wrote:No, what I'm saying is atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning.


If the universe is so bad, how did people ever come to attribute it to the activity of a wise and good Creator?

OK Brad, is that the same Jake from CoB,O fame?

cute kid, BTW....

what happened to your mvoing to a remote Island back a few years ago? Pipe dream or just on the back burner for a while?

Moonie wrote:

bocanuts wrote:I think you are describing natural theism, correct me if I am wrong.

Natural theology attempts to infer the existence of a supernatural being from natural phenomena which allegedly cannot be explained within the context of the natural universe itself. Using facts of nature as his starting point, the theist attempts to demonstrate the existence of a god without
recourse to faith or revelation. Reason, it is claimed, is sufficient to establish the existence of a god.

The problem with this is this returns God to the lower case god, in which, for you, your argument verifies the existence of a supernatural god. That is where my agnosticim comes into play. Your argument may be plausible, as it certaily is untestable, as we can all agree. But it cannot and will not lead to the establishment of the existence of a creature with
the muddled and contradictory attributes of the Christian God. The best that natural theology can do for Christianity is to provide a foundation for rational theism, but it cannot erase the contradictions inherent in the Christian notion of God.

Now I need a drink!

jackson jake wrote:No, what I'm saying is atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning.


If the universe is so bad, how did people ever come to attribute it to the activity of a wise and good Creator?

OK Brad, is that the same Jake from CoB,O fame?

cute kid, BTW....

what happened to your mvoing to a remote Island back a few years ago? Pipe dream or just on the back burner for a while?

Hey moonie, Yep that's the one and only Jake of CoBo fame and Terri Schivao fame!

Yep, she's a cutie. And no, it's not on the back burner. It's part of a ten year plan. Plan is to be there in 10 years. 3 1/2 years into it as of right now.

I believe in God. I'm not sure I believe in religion. I was watching the coverage of the Pope recently and couldn't get over how complicated religion is. I don't think it needs to be that complicated.

I was born a Presbiterian. Now I'm a Lutheran. I really don't know, and don't care, about the differences between the two. I go to Church because I like to sing and that's how I mainly offer my thanks. My wife was Lutheran, that's where we got married so that's where we bring the family now.

I think there's good that can be taken from understanding all the different perspectives and leaving the all the bad stuff behind.

The world gets into trouble when people say "I'm right, you're wrong and you're going to hell because of what you believe."

Let's face it, until your particular god comes back to Earth, there's really no way to prove or disprove any of it.

I really like this quote which sums it up for me.

It's the Buddhist in you, it's the pagan in me
It's the Muslim in him, she's Catholic ain't she?
It's that born again look, it's the wasp and the Jew
Tell me what's goin on, I ain't got a clue

I just wish we could all get along.

Whosoever you direct your thanks and love for from everything I have

read would want us to be peaceful with each other.

I beleive in me and you and the strength we can have as a combined

group for good.

Simplicity I find works much better.

Live to love and be loved and you will have lived.

bocanuts wrote:

Moonie wrote:

OK Brad, is that the same Jake from CoB,O fame?

cute kid, BTW....

what happened to your mvoing to a remote Island back a few years ago? Pipe dream or just on the back burner for a while?

Hey moonie, Yep that's the one and only Jake of CoBo fame and Terri Schivao fame!

Yep, she's a cutie. And no, it's not on the back burner. It's part of a ten year plan. Plan is to be there in 10 years. 3 1/2 years into it as of right now.

Aaaahahah..well, you tell that Jake, Moonie and Sam said HEY!! Did he ever find a chick that would say....Yes?

and never lose track of the best laid plans of mice and men.....