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Staredge wrote:

flyboy55 wrote:Serious question:

If the Second Amendment means what gun enthusiasts think it means (ie no infringement of my right to keep and bear arms)

then why can't I own a Hirtenberger 60mm commando mortar or Paladin M109A6 self-propelled Howitzer, for example?

I would appreciate a serious response.

I'll have to see if I can find it. I read it a day or two ago....basically the distinction is made between individual weapons and crewed weapons. Both of the examples you list are crewed weapons.

I don't recall such a mention of 'crewed' weapons in the Second Amendment.

Are you talking about some later 'interpretation' of the Second Amendment by a government body? If so, this appears to be exactly what folks object to, ie. having the legislative or judicial branches make interpretations of the Constitution to suit circumstances.

A literal reading of the Second Amendment gives me the 'right' to keep either of the weapons I mentioned.

During the time of the Revolution, the militia was considered to be the able bodied men of the community. They would be expected to maintain personal weaponry: rifles, muskets, knives, swords, etc. Crewed weapons, such as cannons and mortars, would have been maintained and provided by the Government.

Are you sure it's illegal to own either of the two weapons you mentioned???

Wino you know wrote:I don't know anything about any gun bans.
All I know is I HAVE guns and know how to use them, and WILL use them. I did not buy them as conversation pieces.
I bought them to KILL any sonofab|tch that decides MY property is HIS/HER property.
Sorry if I sound like an angry white hick male, but I work too G.D. hard for what little I have. If some c.s.er who's too lazy or too stupid to get a job decides he's entitled to MY property, it's my solemn pledge to educate the bas--rd. My guns are at home with me. I travel with my guns. I go out to eat with my guns. I go to the friggin' POTTY with my guns!!!
Bans?
Again I say, if anyone can GET my guns, they can HAVE them.

That's it, case closed. Next topic, please.

My comrades and I have placed subliminal messages in a variety of media, including but not limited to gun enthusiast magazines and Jimmy Buffett songs.

Trust me, when the time comes you will be 'asking' us to take them off your hands . . .

I've got guns, and every single one of them was selected with self defence in mind.
I don't hunt or collect, nor shoot targets
for anything other than practice related to defending myself, employees, and family.
I've got a permit to carry, and I do.

The right to bear arms was granted for obvious reasons.
Now if we can only get universal acceptance for the right to bare feet!

flyboy55 wrote:My comrades and I have placed subliminal messages in a variety of media, including but not limited to gun enthusiast magazines and Jimmy Buffett songs.

Trust me, when the time comes you will be 'asking' us to take them off your hands . . .

I don't subscribe to any "gun enthusiast" magazines. In fact, I'm not really much of a gun enthusiast, per se. Rather, I'm more of a MY LIFE & MY PROPERTY enthusiast.
I'm VERY easy to get along with, and, in fact, anyone who CAN'T get along with me is a supreme a-hole. Contrary to what some of my posts may lead you to believe, I'm very easygoing, but if anyone messes with my property or my dogs, they're going down, bans or no bans.

Staredge wrote:During the time of the Revolution, the militia was considered to be the able bodied men of the community. They would be expected to maintain personal weaponry: rifles, muskets, knives, swords, etc. Crewed weapons, such as cannons and mortars, would have been maintained and provided by the Government.

Are you sure it's illegal to own either of the two weapons you mentioned???

You make an interesting point, and I don't necessarily disagree with the distinction you make between what weapons the government should control and what weapons individuals should control.

But in making your point, you are going beyond what restrictions (if any) the Second Amendment provides and so are supporting an infringement of my right to 'keep and bear arms'.

Wino you know wrote:

flyboy55 wrote:My comrades and I have placed subliminal messages in a variety of media, including but not limited to gun enthusiast magazines and Jimmy Buffett songs.

Trust me, when the time comes you will be 'asking' us to take them off your hands . . .

I don't subscribe to any "gun enthusiast" magazines. In fact, I'm not really much of a gun enthusiast, per se. Rather, I'm more of a MY LIFE & MY PROPERTY enthusiast.
I'm VERY easy to get along with, and, in fact, anyone who CAN'T get along with me is a supreme a-hole. Contrary to what some of my posts may lead you to believe, I'm very easygoing, but if anyone messes with my property or my dogs, they're going down, bans or no bans.

I believe you are.

But like I said, our subliminal messages are widespread. You will fall under our influence sooner or later my friend.



Many Hooters Girls are part of our organization . . .

flyboy55 wrote:You will fall under our influence sooner or later my friend.

Sure.
And I'm voting for Obama too.

Hooters girls have no power over me. Tilted Kilt girls on the other hand...

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:

weirdo0521 wrote:It will be interesting to see crime statistics in the near future. And how those numbers are spun.

You mean like including 18 and 19 year olds as "children" in the stats?

uh.. Kat?? the age is up to 26...
Yep.. for those ads that tell you that Gun Violence kills more kids
than anything.. they use everyone from 26 down..

flyboy55 wrote:Serious question:

If the Second Amendment means what gun enthusiasts think it means (ie no infringement of my right to keep and bear arms)

then why can't I own a Hirtenberger 60mm commando mortar or Paladin M109A6 self-propelled Howitzer, for example?

I would appreciate a serious response.

Read (I think) Thomas Paynes thoughts..
His thoughts (If I got the right One) are that
we should be armed with pretty much what ever it takes ,
if the need arises to over through the government
if they usurp our rights...

so yes..

For every time I read/hear an account of someone defending his store/home/family with a gun there are ten stories of how someone shoots a family member, a child shoots a brother or sister, a child shoots a friend etc etc. One rarely gets to defend themselves/or their homes with guns....however it seems all too often that they are used in ways the purchaser never intended. No matter how well the parent thinks the guns are hidden or locked up...believe me the kids know way more than you think they do.

I live in a small city. Every time a gun comes into play it is a tragedy this type. I'm trying to remember a single time (other than used by a policeman) when a gun was fired to defend a family member or even a store or residence. Believe me that would be news here.

The most recent incident here was when a troubled teenager got a gun (that was locked up) took it to our local high school and shot his ex girlfriend and then killed himself...

I wonder if either of those parents (hers or his) think it was worthwhile to have that gun available on the highly unlikely chance that someone should try to break into their home.....

Just curious....for those of you who feel you need to keep guns on hand to defend your home/family from armed intruders is it it that common an occurence where you live?

nutmeg wrote:For every time I read/hear an account of someone defending his store/home/family with a gun there are ten stories of how someone shoots a family member, a child shoots a brother or sister, a child shoots a friend etc etc. One rarely gets to defend themselves/or their homes with guns....however it seems all too often that they are used in ways the purchaser never intended. No matter how well the parent thinks the guns are hidden or locked up...believe me the kids know way more than you think they do.

I live in a small city. Every time a gun comes into play it is a tragedy this type. I'm trying to remember a single time (other than used by a policeman) when a gun was fired to defend a family member or even a store or residence. Believe me that would be news here.

The most recent incident here was when a troubled teenager got a gun (that was locked up) took it to our local high school and shot his ex girlfriend and then killed himself...

I wonder if either of those parents (hers or his) think it was worthwhile to have that gun available on the highly unlikely chance that someone should try to break into their home.....

Just curious....for those of you who feel you need to keep guns on hand to defend your home/family from armed intruders is it it that common an occurence where you live?

I was 17 the year they did...
I slept with the door closed.. my Mom got up
to check on my lil sis

they ran out the back door..

ragtopW wrote:

nutmeg wrote:For every time I read/hear an account of someone defending his store/home/family with a gun there are ten stories of how someone shoots a family member, a child shoots a brother or sister, a child shoots a friend etc etc. One rarely gets to defend themselves/or their homes with guns....however it seems all too often that they are used in ways the purchaser never intended. No matter how well the parent thinks the guns are hidden or locked up...believe me the kids know way more than you think they do.

I live in a small city. Every time a gun comes into play it is a tragedy this type. I'm trying to remember a single time (other than used by a policeman) when a gun was fired to defend a family member or even a store or residence. Believe me that would be news here.

The most recent incident here was when a troubled teenager got a gun (that was locked up) took it to our local high school and shot his ex girlfriend and then killed himself...

I wonder if either of those parents (hers or his) think it was worthwhile to have that gun available on the highly unlikely chance that someone should try to break into their home.....

Just curious....for those of you who feel you need to keep guns on hand to defend your home/family from armed intruders is it it that common an occurence where you live?

I was 17 the year they did...
I slept with the door closed.. my Mom got up
to check on my lil sis

they ran out the back door..

Yikes! Did they ever find out who it was/catch them??? ((Santa))

nutmeg wrote:

ragtopW wrote:

nutmeg wrote:For every time I read/hear an account of someone defending his store/home/family with a gun there are ten stories of how someone shoots a family member, a child shoots a brother or sister, a child shoots a friend etc etc. One rarely gets to defend themselves/or their homes with guns....however it seems all too often that they are used in ways the purchaser never intended. No matter how well the parent thinks the guns are hidden or locked up...believe me the kids know way more than you think they do.

I live in a small city. Every time a gun comes into play it is a tragedy this type. I'm trying to remember a single time (other than used by a policeman) when a gun was fired to defend a family member or even a store or residence. Believe me that would be news here.

The most recent incident here was when a troubled teenager got a gun (that was locked up) took it to our local high school and shot his ex girlfriend and then killed himself...

I wonder if either of those parents (hers or his) think it was worthwhile to have that gun available on the highly unlikely chance that someone should try to break into their home.....

Just curious....for those of you who feel you need to keep guns on hand to defend your home/family from armed intruders is it it that common an occurence where you live?

I was 17 the year they did...
I slept with the door closed.. my Mom got up
to check on my lil sis

they ran out the back door..

Yikes! Did they ever find out who it was/catch them??? ((Santa))

We Knew.. the cops couldn't prove it..

ragtopW wrote:

flyboy55 wrote:Serious question:

If the Second Amendment means what gun enthusiasts think it means (ie no infringement of my right to keep and bear arms)

then why can't I own a Hirtenberger 60mm commando mortar or Paladin M109A6 self-propelled Howitzer, for example?

I would appreciate a serious response.

Read (I think) Thomas Paynes thoughts..
His thoughts (If I got the right One) are that
we should be armed with pretty much what ever it takes ,
if the need arises to over through the government
if they usurp our rights...

so yes..

So if I understand you correctly, the intent of the Second Amendment is to make sure the citizenry has access to enough fire power to overthrow the government ("whatever it takes").

Would you say the Second Amendment allows me to have guided missiles with nuclear warheads?

This isn't a frivolous matter. I've heard a lot of people express the opinion over the years that the Second Amendment means EXACTLY what it says:

"A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

Furthermore, the same people hold that attempts to regulate the firepower available to citizens (handgun bans, limitations on clip sizes, background checks, restricting access to fully automatic weapons, etc) constitute an infringement of citizens' constitutional rights.

If that is the case, should private citizens have at their disposal enough firepower to overthrow the U.S. government (ie missiles, nuclear weapons, etc)?

Just my 2 cents, but I believe the Supreme Court made a good decision.

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:Just my 2 cents, but I believe the Supreme Court made a good decision.

Just MY 2 cents, but I think you're right. They DID make a good decision.

Well. five of the nine did, anyway.

Wino you know wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:Just my 2 cents, but I believe the Supreme Court made a good decision.

Just MY 2 cents, but I think you're right. They DID make a good decision.

Well. five of the nine did, anyway.

For once they got it right. Its not citizens buying legal guns that are killing people on the street. Its the gang banger with the stolen guns or guns that make it over the US borders illegally. The way I look at it is I allready have my guns and they cant take them away.

My favorite is my Bushmaster AR 15 M4 A3

here's the court's opinion. i highly recommend reading it. i learned alot you will too....

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf