Really?? just go home..

[ph4ever]

Another thing to consider is that Shelbyville is a small town - less than 17,000 population. While I realize that Tyson more than likely employs outside the city itself, considering the town size I'd be willing to bet that those 800 people represent a significant percentage of Tyson employees.

[aeroparrot]

I've got to say this even at the risk of pi$$ing off a few people.

I find the attitude of "send these people where they came from" to be very anti-American.

One of the main reasons our forefathers came to the United States was to be able to practice their chosen religion freely.

Our monument, The Lady Liberty, is recognized worldwide as a symbol of freedom. To be free of oppression. That freedom also includes the practice of one's chosen religion.

If these people immigrated to the U.S. legally they have every damn right to practice whatever religion chosen because THAT IS THE BASIS OF OUR COUNTRY'S FOUNDATION!!!!

How can we as United States Citizens deny anyone their chosen religion with good conscience? We might as well pull that bronze plaque off Lady Liberty and knock the old girl down.

[center] Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"[/center]

The way I see it is, if you live in a country, you're going to need to accept certain parts of that society. If you want to take a day off for a religious holiday, you should be paid for it and not get docked a vacation/personal day for it, however, I don't think that people should force others to observe a holiday that they don't believe in.

[ragtopW]

I've got to say this even at the risk of pi$$ing off a few people.

I find the attitude of "send these people where they came from" to be very anti-American.

. . .

It is always possible to pi$$ off a few people by calling for this country to live up to the standards of freedom and decency that it loudly proclaims at home and around the world (but frequently doesn't adhere to).

But unless I missed something, I don't even understand why this is an issue. The day off for the Muslim religious holiday was negotiated as part of a union agreement with Tyson management.

It is primarily as members of a union that these Americans of Somali descent secured this particular day off as part of their collective bargaining agreement. They aren't demanding that the wider community or other employers recognize this as a day off.

For that reason, I don't understand why anyone (other than those paranoid, knuckle-dragging, single-digit IQs over at www.stormfront.org) should be upset about it.

Maybe (in spite of the fact that I had a great-grandmother named Maggie who immigrated from Ireland) I don't like the fact that every March 17th is given over (though not as a holiday in this country) to those of Irish descent and their admirers, who wear articles of green clothing, march around in parades blocking traffic, and manage to get some communities to dump green dye into their rivers in honor of the occasion. While not an official holiday, all this is certainly more disruptive to community life than members of a union getting a certain day off. Why couldn't those Irish either keep their religious celebrations to themselves or go home?

Thanks to both of you. I wrote 4 responses and deleted them all because I couldn't find the right tone. I agree completely. If the workers requested it then obviously the majority wanted it so what possible difference can it make? And as to "all those people should go home" Well then who gets to decide who stays?? Who's the arbiter of "American" enough to live here?

Sorry.. I guess I did not state my point
I am not anti Emmigrant.. not at all..

What I am anti.. is someone entering this country (I'm guessing because theirs s#$ks ) and changing things so that
"It's more like Home" Or "Just like Home" or " In My country"



IMHO.. fine you want that day off.. it comes off your PTO and
we run a small show that day..


I take off Ash Wednesday every year, Fat Tuesday is a very important day to me.. (and boy do I need the next day to recover)

I don't expect the world or even the USA to stop because I
happen to believe it's a day of rest..

[ph4ever]

I've got to say this even at the risk of pi$$ing off a few people.

I find the attitude of "send these people where they came from" to be very anti-American.

One of the main reasons our forefathers came to the United States was to be able to practice their chosen religion freely.

Our monument, The Lady Liberty, is recognized worldwide as a symbol of freedom. To be free of oppression. That freedom also includes the practice of one's chosen religion.

If these people immigrated to the U.S. legally they have every damn right to practice whatever religion chosen because THAT IS THE BASIS OF OUR COUNTRY'S FOUNDATION!!!!

How can we as United States Citizens deny anyone their chosen religion with good conscience? We might as well pull that bronze plaque off Lady Liberty and knock the old girl down.

[center] Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"[/center]

The way I see it is, if you live in a country, you're going to need to accept certain parts of that society. If you want to take a day off for a religious holiday, you should be paid for it and not get docked a vacation/personal day for it, however, I don't think that people should force others to observe a holiday that they don't believe in.

I don't see this as forcing someone to observe a holiday they don't believe in any more than companies giving a Christmas holiday. After all not all religions celebrate Christmas.

[ph4ever]

I've got to say this even at the risk of pi$$ing off a few people.

I find the attitude of "send these people where they came from" to be very anti-American.

. . .

It is always possible to pi$$ off a few people by calling for this country to live up to the standards of freedom and decency that it loudly proclaims at home and around the world (but frequently doesn't adhere to).

But unless I missed something, I don't even understand why this is an issue. The day off for the Muslim religious holiday was negotiated as part of a union agreement with Tyson management.

It is primarily as members of a union that these Americans of Somali descent secured this particular day off as part of their collective bargaining agreement. They aren't demanding that the wider community or other employers recognize this as a day off.

For that reason, I don't understand why anyone (other than those paranoid, knuckle-dragging, single-digit IQs over at www.stormfront.org) should be upset about it.

Maybe (in spite of the fact that I had a great-grandmother named Maggie who immigrated from Ireland) I don't like the fact that every March 17th is given over (though not as a holiday in this country) to those of Irish descent and their admirers, who wear articles of green clothing, march around in parades blocking traffic, and manage to get some communities to dump green dye into their rivers in honor of the occasion. While not an official holiday, all this is certainly more disruptive to community life than members of a union getting a certain day off. Why couldn't those Irish either keep their religious celebrations to themselves or go home?

Thanks to both of you. I wrote 4 responses and deleted them all because I couldn't find the right tone. I agree completely. If the workers requested it then obviously the majority wanted it so what possible difference can it make? And as to "all those people should go home" Well then who gets to decide who stays?? Who's the arbiter of "American" enough to live here?

Sorry.. I guess I did not state my point
I am not anti Emmigrant.. not at all..

What I am anti.. is someone entering this country (I'm guessing because theirs s#$ks ) and changing things so that
"It's more like Home" Or "Just like Home" or " In My country"



IMHO.. fine you want that day off.. it comes off your PTO and
we run a small show that day..


I take off Ash Wednesday every year, Fat Tuesday is a very important day to me.. (and boy do I need the next day to recover)

I don't expect the world or even the USA to stop because I
happen to believe it's a day of rest..

I see your point and yet I also see the Tyson management point. Their workforce at that particular plant is 1200. To have more than half of your production staff take off the same day would but a great burden on those that don't take off. It would really be counter productive.

[ragtopW]

I've got to say this even at the risk of pi$$ing off a few people.

I find the attitude of "send these people where they came from" to be very anti-American.

. . .

It is always possible to pi$$ off a few people by calling for this country to live up to the standards of freedom and decency that it loudly proclaims at home and around the world (but frequently doesn't adhere to).

But unless I missed something, I don't even understand why this is an issue. The day off for the Muslim religious holiday was negotiated as part of a union agreement with Tyson management.

It is primarily as members of a union that these Americans of Somali descent secured this particular day off as part of their collective bargaining agreement. They aren't demanding that the wider community or other employers recognize this as a day off.

For that reason, I don't understand why anyone (other than those paranoid, knuckle-dragging, single-digit IQs over at www.stormfront.org) should be upset about it.

Maybe (in spite of the fact that I had a great-grandmother named Maggie who immigrated from Ireland) I don't like the fact that every March 17th is given over (though not as a holiday in this country) to those of Irish descent and their admirers, who wear articles of green clothing, march around in parades blocking traffic, and manage to get some communities to dump green dye into their rivers in honor of the occasion. While not an official holiday, all this is certainly more disruptive to community life than members of a union getting a certain day off. Why couldn't those Irish either keep their religious celebrations to themselves or go home?

Thanks to both of you. I wrote 4 responses and deleted them all because I couldn't find the right tone. I agree completely. If the workers requested it then obviously the majority wanted it so what possible difference can it make? And as to "all those people should go home" Well then who gets to decide who stays?? Who's the arbiter of "American" enough to live here?

Sorry.. I guess I did not state my point
I am not anti Emmigrant.. not at all..

What I am anti.. is someone entering this country (I'm guessing because theirs s#$ks ) and changing things so that
"It's more like Home" Or "Just like Home" or " In My country"



IMHO.. fine you want that day off.. it comes off your PTO and
we run a small show that day..


I take off Ash Wednesday every year, Fat Tuesday is a very important day to me.. (and boy do I need the next day to recover)

I don't expect the world or even the USA to stop because I
happen to believe it's a day of rest..

to expand this view..
When I moved from California there were (still are)
laws that I think needed changed..
Hey I moved from California because it is not so good IMO
any more
I don't have the right to come up here and change things
just to make "it more like Home"

[aeroparrot]

I've got to say this even at the risk of pi$$ing off a few people.

I find the attitude of "send these people where they came from" to be very anti-American.

One of the main reasons our forefathers came to the United States was to be able to practice their chosen religion freely.

Our monument, The Lady Liberty, is recognized worldwide as a symbol of freedom. To be free of oppression. That freedom also includes the practice of one's chosen religion.

If these people immigrated to the U.S. legally they have every damn right to practice whatever religion chosen because THAT IS THE BASIS OF OUR COUNTRY'S FOUNDATION!!!!

How can we as United States Citizens deny anyone their chosen religion with good conscience? We might as well pull that bronze plaque off Lady Liberty and knock the old girl down.

[center] Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"[/center]

The way I see it is, if you live in a country, you're going to need to accept certain parts of that society. If you want to take a day off for a religious holiday, you should be paid for it and not get docked a vacation/personal day for it, however, I don't think that people should force others to observe a holiday that they don't believe in.

I don't see this as forcing someone to observe a holiday they don't believe in any more than companies giving a Christmas holiday. After all not all religions celebrate Christmas.

I am a Hindu but I get Good Friday and Christmas off because the stock markets are also closed those days.

[ScarletB]

I've got to say this even at the risk of pi$$ing off a few people.

I find the attitude of "send these people where they came from" to be very anti-American.

. . .

It is always possible to pi$$ off a few people by calling for this country to live up to the standards of freedom and decency that it loudly proclaims at home and around the world (but frequently doesn't adhere to).

But unless I missed something, I don't even understand why this is an issue. The day off for the Muslim religious holiday was negotiated as part of a union agreement with Tyson management.

It is primarily as members of a union that these Americans of Somali descent secured this particular day off as part of their collective bargaining agreement. They aren't demanding that the wider community or other employers recognize this as a day off.

For that reason, I don't understand why anyone (other than those paranoid, knuckle-dragging, single-digit IQs over at www.stormfront.org) should be upset about it.

Maybe (in spite of the fact that I had a great-grandmother named Maggie who immigrated from Ireland) I don't like the fact that every March 17th is given over (though not as a holiday in this country) to those of Irish descent and their admirers, who wear articles of green clothing, march around in parades blocking traffic, and manage to get some communities to dump green dye into their rivers in honor of the occasion. While not an official holiday, all this is certainly more disruptive to community life than members of a union getting a certain day off. Why couldn't those Irish either keep their religious celebrations to themselves or go home?

I'm SOOO sorry I clicked on that link out of boredom and curiosity. Dear God.

[ragtopW]

I've got to say this even at the risk of pi$$ing off a few people.

I find the attitude of "send these people where they came from" to be very anti-American.

. . .

It is always possible to pi$$ off a few people by calling for this country to live up to the standards of freedom and decency that it loudly proclaims at home and around the world (but frequently doesn't adhere to).

But unless I missed something, I don't even understand why this is an issue. The day off for the Muslim religious holiday was negotiated as part of a union agreement with Tyson management.

It is primarily as members of a union that these Americans of Somali descent secured this particular day off as part of their collective bargaining agreement. They aren't demanding that the wider community or other employers recognize this as a day off.

For that reason, I don't understand why anyone (other than those paranoid, knuckle-dragging, single-digit IQs over at www.stormfront.org) should be upset about it.

Maybe (in spite of the fact that I had a great-grandmother named Maggie who immigrated from Ireland) I don't like the fact that every March 17th is given over (though not as a holiday in this country) to those of Irish descent and their admirers, who wear articles of green clothing, march around in parades blocking traffic, and manage to get some communities to dump green dye into their rivers in honor of the occasion. While not an official holiday, all this is certainly more disruptive to community life than members of a union getting a certain day off. Why couldn't those Irish either keep their religious celebrations to themselves or go home?

Thanks to both of you. I wrote 4 responses and deleted them all because I couldn't find the right tone. I agree completely. If the workers requested it then obviously the majority wanted it so what possible difference can it make? And as to "all those people should go home" Well then who gets to decide who stays?? Who's the arbiter of "American" enough to live here?

Sorry.. I guess I did not state my point
I am not anti Emmigrant.. not at all..

What I am anti.. is someone entering this country (I'm guessing because theirs s#$ks ) and changing things so that
"It's more like Home" Or "Just like Home" or " In My country"



IMHO.. fine you want that day off.. it comes off your PTO and
we run a small show that day..


I take off Ash Wednesday every year, Fat Tuesday is a very important day to me.. (and boy do I need the next day to recover)

I don't expect the world or even the USA to stop because I
happen to believe it's a day of rest..

I see your point and yet I also see the Tyson management point. Their workforce at that particular plant is 1200. To have more than half of your production staff take off the same day would but a great burden on those that don't take off. It would really be counter productive.

I know I have never seen that plant..
but in my seafood days.. (production days)

we would have welcomed a short staff day..
you can have the maintenance crew change belts.motors,
check on cooling units ( the list goes on forever and the party never ends) while an operator is there to help run the
system, all this without working on a Saturday or other off day..

(and paying the $$$ OT)

[Wino you know]

[aeroparrot]

[Wino you know]

Thanks for having a sense of humor.
LOVE YA, BROTHER!

[phjrsaunt]

this is a perfect case study for Human Resources.

Let's add a twist, shall we? Let's say that Tyson, an American based company, opens a plant in a foreign country. Let's say that they bring with them enough employees from the home country to make up 30% of the total workforce at the foreign location. Whose holidays do you observe?

This is the sort of thing that gets reviewed constantly in Employee Relations...the thing is, there is no "right" answer. The best you can ever really hope to do is find a compromise that all parties can live with. (and observe local laws, of course)

[flyboy55]

I've got to say this even at the risk of pi$$ing off a few people.

I find the attitude of "send these people where they came from" to be very anti-American.

. . .

It is always possible to pi$$ off a few people by calling for this country to live up to the standards of freedom and decency that it loudly proclaims at home and around the world (but frequently doesn't adhere to).

But unless I missed something, I don't even understand why this is an issue. The day off for the Muslim religious holiday was negotiated as part of a union agreement with Tyson management.

It is primarily as members of a union that these Americans of Somali descent secured this particular day off as part of their collective bargaining agreement. They aren't demanding that the wider community or other employers recognize this as a day off.

For that reason, I don't understand why anyone (other than those paranoid, knuckle-dragging, single-digit IQs over at www.stormfront.org) should be upset about it.

Maybe (in spite of the fact that I had a great-grandmother named Maggie who immigrated from Ireland) I don't like the fact that every March 17th is given over (though not as a holiday in this country) to those of Irish descent and their admirers, who wear articles of green clothing, march around in parades blocking traffic, and manage to get some communities to dump green dye into their rivers in honor of the occasion. While not an official holiday, all this is certainly more disruptive to community life than members of a union getting a certain day off. Why couldn't those Irish either keep their religious celebrations to themselves or go home?

I'm SOOO sorry I clicked on that link out of boredom and curiosity. Dear God.

You never know what you're gonna find when you turn over a rock . . .

I think I should make clear that I didn't mean to suggest that anybody here would live under that rock, too. I apologize if it came across that way.

[Moonie]

It is always possible to pi$$ off a few people by calling for this country to live up to the standards of freedom and decency that it loudly proclaims at home and around the world (but frequently doesn't adhere to).

But unless I missed something, I don't even understand why this is an issue. The day off for the Muslim religious holiday was negotiated as part of a union agreement with Tyson management.

It is primarily as members of a union that these Americans of Somali descent secured this particular day off as part of their collective bargaining agreement. They aren't demanding that the wider community or other employers recognize this as a day off.

For that reason, I don't understand why anyone (other than those paranoid, knuckle-dragging, single-digit IQs over at www.stormfront.org) should be upset about it.

Maybe (in spite of the fact that I had a great-grandmother named Maggie who immigrated from Ireland) I don't like the fact that every March 17th is given over (though not as a holiday in this country) to those of Irish descent and their admirers, who wear articles of green clothing, march around in parades blocking traffic, and manage to get some communities to dump green dye into their rivers in honor of the occasion. While not an official holiday, all this is certainly more disruptive to community life than members of a union getting a certain day off. Why couldn't those Irish either keep their religious celebrations to themselves or go home?

I'm SOOO sorry I clicked on that link out of boredom and curiosity. Dear God.

You never know what you're gonna find when you turn over a rock . . .

I think I should make clear that I didn't mean to suggest that anybody here would live under that rock, too. I apologize if it came across that way.

I wasn't even aware that a site like that existed, there are probably plenty more out there, I wouldn't know one way, or the other...

however, I don't see that that particular site, or any like it, have anything at all, to do with the subject of this thread...

[moog]

Union is bad. And don't EVEN get me started. Grrrr....

Well, the union is good for us 911 dispatchers in my town. Even though we are under AFSCAM, I mean AFSCME. Some upper management and town officials like to p*** under them.


I think this is messed up giving up Labor Day for a religious holiday. There are just too many to please.

Technically if anyone wants their mythological holiday celebrated it should be in trade of Dec 25. Not have both. Therefore making all sides happy. You celebrate Christmas then take the 25th off. Oh wait, what about Good Friday. Oh crap, many Jewish folks get Dec 25th off, Good Friday and their holidays! Phew this is too hard. Lets just take all of them off. Better yet, let's move Memorial Day back to it's rightful place. No uproar over that. Well, then people will complain it cuts into their three day meat consumption time.

Humans are silly.


If there was a vote, then the workers have chosen.

[SuperTrooper]

Back when I worked for Generous Electric there was an annual battle on when to observe the Floating Holiday. For years the individual plants would hold an election with most votes deciding. Guaranteed to pi$$ off the losers. Then someone came up with the brilliant idea of leaving the FH up to the individual worker. Everybody was happy. Production didn't halt on any one day. I realize the Tyson plant would most likely face a slow production day or days, but any management team worth their pay could turn it to their advantage.

[flyboy55]

. . .
I wasn't even aware that a site like that existed, there are probably plenty more out there, I wouldn't know one way, or the other...

however, I don't see that that particular site, or any like it, have anything at all, to do with the subject of this thread...

When I read the first few comments in this thread, I 'googled' Tyson+plant+muslim and the website in question came up number two hit on page one. The story is the subject of a thread over there. Now that the story has had more play, that particular website has dropped to page four on a google search of the topic.

Same story, same issue, different group of people (vastly different) discussing it.

That's what it has to do with the subject of this thread.

[Moonie]

. . .
I wasn't even aware that a site like that existed, there are probably plenty more out there, I wouldn't know one way, or the other...

however, I don't see that that particular site, or any like it, have anything at all, to do with the subject of this thread...

When I read the first few comments in this thread, I 'googled' Tyson+plant+muslim and the website in question came up number two hit on page one. The story is the subject of a thread over there. Now that the story has had more play, that particular website has dropped to page four on a google search of the topic.

Same story, same issue, different group of people (vastly different) discussing it.

That's what it has to do with the subject of this thread.

I rarely use google as a seach engine, and wouldn't have searched, anyway, other than taking the link Wayne provided...

unless I confirm something with Snopes.com..and I usually depend on someone else online to do that...

[TropicalTroubador]

I've got to say this even at the risk of pi$$ing off a few people.

I find the attitude of "send these people where they came from" to be very anti-American.

. . .

It is always possible to pi$$ off a few people by calling for this country to live up to the standards of freedom and decency that it loudly proclaims at home and around the world (but frequently doesn't adhere to).

But unless I missed something, I don't even understand why this is an issue. The day off for the Muslim religious holiday was negotiated as part of a union agreement with Tyson management.

It is primarily as members of a union that these Americans of Somali descent secured this particular day off as part of their collective bargaining agreement. They aren't demanding that the wider community or other employers recognize this as a day off.

For that reason, I don't understand why anyone (other than those paranoid, knuckle-dragging, single-digit IQs over at www.stormfront.org) should be upset about it.

Maybe (in spite of the fact that I had a great-grandmother named Maggie who immigrated from Ireland) I don't like the fact that every March 17th is given over (though not as a holiday in this country) to those of Irish descent and their admirers, who wear articles of green clothing, march around in parades blocking traffic, and manage to get some communities to dump green dye into their rivers in honor of the occasion. While not an official holiday, all this is certainly more disruptive to community life than members of a union getting a certain day off. Why couldn't those Irish either keep their religious celebrations to themselves or go home?

Thanks to both of you. I wrote 4 responses and deleted them all because I couldn't find the right tone. I agree completely. If the workers requested it then obviously the majority wanted it so what possible difference can it make? And as to "all those people should go home" Well then who gets to decide who stays?? Who's the arbiter of "American" enough to live here?

How about the remaining Native Americans?