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ScarletB wrote:How sad, phin power to help guide you in how to approach this.

Agreed.. definitely not an easy task.

OK.. this is tough.. and will be very tough..
I am going to say some things that will get me flamed..
that's OK ,I have had some different experiences from some of the
others.. so from another prespective

First.. a question or two..
are you the only friend this person has??
is there a group?? maybe do you know the brothers?? Sisters??


Second.. Have you seen the Drinking?? or is the info second(or worse)
hand??




OK now some advice...
If you even think that this person will throw your
own drinking back at you.. you need another point person..
all you will do is let them know they haven't been as "cute"
with their hiding tricks.. and they need to get better..
you also will foster a "me VS them" thought pattern
or worse.. " the only friend I have left is.. my bottle"
that isn't the desired effect
as pointed out a Neutral person might be best..
(when I say will I mean you have high odds)


Now off to the al anon/narc annon AA NA.. 12 step groups..
they work for some people (nothing is 100% )
they also only see the train wrecks that enter the room..
they never see a "social" drinker.. so.. to them
everyone who drinks... is a problem..
they will tell you so.. and in no uncertain terms..
"if you drink.. you ARE an Alcoholic "
(I have dated two rehab workers.. and two rehabees
I have gone to all of the above meetings)
there are some wonderfull people working in the field..
but they have a lopsided view..
this is NOT to say don't try them as a resource..
just know what to expect.. don't get scared by the first meeting..
also know that meetings are ..well Birds of a feather..
Blue collar types tend to find their types..
office help.. High $$ types.. so visit a couple of meetings
and meeting places.. you might have to go to two or three to find a fit..

now I will agree that unless the person wants to quit.. nothing short of a bullet between the eyes will help..

also have examples.. but don't Imbelish or Exaggerate
(this will also start the Us VS them)
just a couple of quick stories..


last.. and in no means least.. do not .. put their back to the wall..
if it gets ugly.. walk away..
find another trail in.. pick your battles..
know when to fold them..




flame on..

Wayne, I see no reason to flame. You've posted some good advice.

trust me, stay out of it, you will only lose that person as a friend

I have two close friends in recovery (or at least two that I know of); one for 3 years, the other for over 20. Many of the comments here are spot on. I think some professional guidance for you might be helpful as to how to handle this.

It also seems to me that the question is whether you want to risk the friendship to help a friend, knowing that you might be rejected, or do you want to preserve the friendship at all costs. Framed that way, I think trying to help is the choice. And, in any event, you might want to avoid being in the position of supporting the drinking.

very good points all across the board. one thing i havnt seen, maybe i missed it, but often times addicts have to hit the "rock bottom" to realize their problem. perhaps this trip being all inclusive with good friends might just be the rock bottom. im not saying it is a good thing to have this happen, but i know some people who have experienced the rock bottom who are now sober. im not sure how i would approach this, i dunno not a good situation. but maybe this trip will help your friend see his problem.

also as said above people in AA, or others do see everyone as an addict. one of my friends recently got sober, and cant see the balance. i tried to talk with him about social drinking, 2-3 beers here and there. all he would say was that im dependent and eventually i will be binge drinking all day everyday. it was kinda ridiculous, and i cant help but laugh at the paranioa. sorry if ive offended anybody, but it just seems like a crazy viewpoint to me.

blowinupinmissoula wrote:very good points all across the board. one thing i havnt seen, maybe i missed it, but often times addicts have to hit the "rock bottom" to realize their problem. perhaps this trip being all inclusive with good friends might just be the rock bottom. im not saying it is a good thing to have this happen, but i know some people who have experienced the rock bottom who are now sober. im not sure how i would approach this, i dunno not a good situation. but maybe this trip will help your friend see his problem.

also as said above people in AA, or others do see everyone as an addict. one of my friends recently got sober, and cant see the balance. i tried to talk with him about social drinking, 2-3 beers here and there. all he would say was that im dependent and eventually i will be binge drinking all day everyday. it was kinda ridiculous, and i cant help but laugh at the paranioa. sorry if ive offended anybody, but it just seems like a crazy viewpoint to me.

And my friend who is 20+ years in recovery, and who really seems to do this right, has no problem with others drinking. Her family will come to her house for dinner and drink in her presence as have I (having asked her if it is ok with her). My other friend in the program also has that perspective-I am often at his home for dinner and the wine flows---just not through him. The same is true with many of each of their friends, so I am very hesitant to generalize about people in the program. If they work the program right, they come to understand that this is their issue and not necessarily everyone else's.

blowinupinmissoula wrote:very good points all across the board. one thing i havnt seen, maybe i missed it, but often times addicts have to hit the "rock bottom" to realize their problem. perhaps this trip being all inclusive with good friends might just be the rock bottom. im not saying it is a good thing to have this happen, but i know some people who have experienced the rock bottom who are now sober. im not sure how i would approach this, i dunno not a good situation. but maybe this trip will help your friend see his problem.

also as said above people in AA, or others do see everyone as an addict. one of my friends recently got sober, and cant see the balance. i tried to talk with him about social drinking, 2-3 beers here and there. all he would say was that im dependent and eventually i will be binge drinking all day everyday. it was kinda ridiculous, and i cant help but laugh at the paranioa. sorry if ive offended anybody, but it just seems like a crazy viewpoint to me.

I have a friend who's been in AA 3 or 4 times, and that is always what has happened--no drinking, then social "I can handle it drinking" and then back to horribly destructive behavior. It, like everything else in life, is different to each person and I agree with what lots of people have said: until they are ready to change, anything you do/say to expedite the situation will be vilified.

all great advice from everyone in here. I only know a few people (that I know of) that I believe have a drinking problem, and I have a cousin who just got out of rehab and I feel as though the way to handle this dependson the person.

Is your friends husband a social drinker? Heavy drinker also??

Anyone that I know with a drinking problem blames every single thing on someone else. There is an excuse, and/or lie for everything. So depending on how you confront the issue, you may end up getting at least part of the blame just so that you dont dare bring it up to that person again.

The wall goes up..... and as far as the husband goes, he may already know. But, if he is a social drinker, and enjoys hanging out with friends having a few he may not want to admit her problem since that will mean that he will have to change his life also, or it could just be that it is a difficult thing to admit since once it is admitted, he has to do something.

And what if he fails....

One thing that I noticed about a particular person that I know has a pretty severe drinking problem is that when confronted about anything the $hit hits the fan..... and it is easier for her family members and people she knows to just keep doing things for her thinking that if life is made easier then maybe she will stop it.'

When in all actuality, it makes it worse. Taking away responsibilities from this person just enables them to drink more. Eventually, everyone around this person spends most of their time cleaning up the drinkers mess.

Maybe, on the trip if she starts to drink heavily, you can make a brief mention to the husband, or someone else in your group asking if she is ok? Maybe mention that you are worried about her?

Then again, that could go horribly wrong if he is very defensive about her problem.

But, at the same time, if he did get defensive, then I would think that he is already fully aware of this problem..... otherwise he would seem confused and caught off guard by someone mentioning her drinking....

Sounds like she has had really horrible things happen in her life. I really hope that everything works out for you and your friend. And hopefully you will be able to enjoy at least some of your vacation.

I have had several alcoholics very close to me. I found that what it does is makes you doubt what you see and your own judgement. If you are not suspicious by nature you will tend to believe what the alc. is telling you even though it is contrary to what you see and it disorients you. This is what I see the husband doing. Also when we were out he told my husband he'd stopped drinking or buying himself anything for around the home because it always meant she would drink. That was a red flag for me because that is exactly what I did.
Anything that I'm makeing a judgement on is what I've seen with my own eyes. I have seen her use me as a cover for her drinking and possibly say that I'm drinking more then I do so that she can either include me in what she is doing or so that she can use me to explain the missing alcohol.
I have no problem with social drinking or even drinking to excess on occasion. That is not what I see here. What I see is somebody with problems who is drinking always to bury them and is making them worst. She is always the one who fixes things for her family and since she isn't and in fact is making them worst things are unraveling.
I am not going to push the issue. I just want to say a few words lovingly and offer help or suggest going back to counseling. I also believe that ins some way I need to let the husband know he is correct in his suspicions and he needs to get her help.
Perhaps the way to go is to talk to him first and go to her together with her daughter.

OceanCityGirl wrote: I am not going to push the issue. I just want to say a few words lovingly and offer help or suggest going back to counseling.

I think that is a good thing. If you let her know that you recognize she has a problem, and even if she's not ready to recognize it or deal with it quite yet, that you're there to be her friend and help her when she is ready.

These people are obviously very dear to you and you value their friendship even above the alcoholism, and that is exactly the kind of friend they need.

Good luck, OCG.

OceanCityGirl wrote:I have had several alcoholics very close to me. I found that what it does is makes you doubt what you see and your own judgement. If you are not suspicious by nature you will tend to believe what the alc. is telling you even though it is contrary to what you see and it disorients you. This is what I see the husband doing. Also when we were out he told my husband he'd stopped drinking or buying himself anything for around the home because it always meant she would drink. That was a red flag for me because that is exactly what I did.
Anything that I'm makeing a judgement on is what I've seen with my own eyes. I have seen her use me as a cover for her drinking and possibly say that I'm drinking more then I do so that she can either include me in what she is doing or so that she can use me to explain the missing alcohol.
I have no problem with social drinking or even drinking to excess on occasion. That is not what I see here. What I see is somebody with problems who is drinking always to bury them and is making them worst. She is always the one who fixes things for her family and since she isn't and in fact is making them worst things are unraveling.
I am not going to push the issue. I just want to say a few words lovingly and offer help or suggest going back to counseling. I also believe that ins some way I need to let the husband know he is correct in his suspicions and he needs to get her help.
Perhaps the way to go is to talk to him first and go to her together with her daughter.

Although it would be awful for your trip to be not as good as you would wish because of your friends drinking, maybe with all of you together - and if her husband chooses to open his eyes further - this COULD be the turning point for his realization. I know when I've had friends that have tried to include me in the "boy we were wasted last night" attitude I've always said something to the effect of "I don't know about you but I only had 3 drinks the whole night"; unless of course I was really drunk the night before.

Good Luck - and I hope your trip really is nice

buffettbride wrote:

OceanCityGirl wrote: I am not going to push the issue. I just want to say a few words lovingly and offer help or suggest going back to counseling.

I think that is a good thing. If you let her know that you recognize she has a problem, and even if she's not ready to recognize it or deal with it quite yet, that you're there to be her friend and help her when she is ready.

These people are obviously very dear to you and you value their friendship even above the alcoholism, and that is exactly the kind of friend they need.

Very well said BB. Good luck OCG.

buffettbride wrote:

OceanCityGirl wrote: I am not going to push the issue. I just want to say a few words lovingly and offer help or suggest going back to counseling.

I think that is a good thing. If you let her know that you recognize she has a problem, and even if she's not ready to recognize it or deal with it quite yet, that you're there to be her friend and help her when she is ready.

These people are obviously very dear to you and you value their friendship even above the alcoholism, and that is exactly the kind of friend they need.

True. It might be that they don't realize that people outside the family have noticed the issue.
It'll be a good thing for them to realize that they haven't been able to hide it.

ejr wrote:

blowinupinmissoula wrote:very good points all across the board. one thing i havnt seen, maybe i missed it, but often times addicts have to hit the "rock bottom" to realize their problem. perhaps this trip being all inclusive with good friends might just be the rock bottom. im not saying it is a good thing to have this happen, but i know some people who have experienced the rock bottom who are now sober. im not sure how i would approach this, i dunno not a good situation. but maybe this trip will help your friend see his problem.

also as said above people in AA, or others do see everyone as an addict. one of my friends recently got sober, and cant see the balance. i tried to talk with him about social drinking, 2-3 beers here and there. all he would say was that im dependent and eventually i will be binge drinking all day everyday. it was kinda ridiculous, and i cant help but laugh at the paranioa. sorry if ive offended anybody, but it just seems like a crazy viewpoint to me.

And my friend who is 20+ years in recovery, and who really seems to do this right, has no problem with others drinking. Her family will come to her house for dinner and drink in her presence as have I (having asked her if it is ok with her). My other friend in the program also has that perspective-I am often at his home for dinner and the wine flows---just not through him. The same is true with many of each of their friends, so I am very hesitant to generalize about people in the program. If they work the program right, they come to understand that this is their issue and not necessarily everyone else's.

true, i have some friends who have been in recovery 20+ years as well, one of them enjoys a glass of wine here and there with dinner, i have never felt self conscious about drinking in front of them. I then have the friend who has been in the program only a year, who believes one who drinks A beer, 3 to four times a week is an alcoholic. I suppose its simply all different stages of individual beliefs and comforts....

blowinupinmissoula wrote:

ejr wrote:

blowinupinmissoula wrote:very good points all across the board. one thing i havnt seen, maybe i missed it, but often times addicts have to hit the "rock bottom" to realize their problem. perhaps this trip being all inclusive with good friends might just be the rock bottom. im not saying it is a good thing to have this happen, but i know some people who have experienced the rock bottom who are now sober. im not sure how i would approach this, i dunno not a good situation. but maybe this trip will help your friend see his problem.

also as said above people in AA, or others do see everyone as an addict. one of my friends recently got sober, and cant see the balance. i tried to talk with him about social drinking, 2-3 beers here and there. all he would say was that im dependent and eventually i will be binge drinking all day everyday. it was kinda ridiculous, and i cant help but laugh at the paranioa. sorry if ive offended anybody, but it just seems like a crazy viewpoint to me.

And my friend who is 20+ years in recovery, and who really seems to do this right, has no problem with others drinking. Her family will come to her house for dinner and drink in her presence as have I (having asked her if it is ok with her). My other friend in the program also has that perspective-I am often at his home for dinner and the wine flows---just not through him. The same is true with many of each of their friends, so I am very hesitant to generalize about people in the program. If they work the program right, they come to understand that this is their issue and not necessarily everyone else's.

true, i have some friends who have been in recovery 20+ years as well, one of them enjoys a glass of wine here and there with dinner, i have never felt self conscious about drinking in front of them. I then have the friend who has been in the program only a year, who believes one who drinks A beer, 3 to four times a week is an alcoholic. I suppose its simply all different stages of individual beliefs and comforts....

If someone is "young" in their recovery - and to be honest a year in recovery is considered young, I personally wouldn't drink in front of them. I've known several people relapse just past their year date or right before it. One year clean and sober is nothing - maybe in the recovering persons eyes it is and should be but in the overall picture of recovery it's nothing.

ph4ever wrote:

blowinupinmissoula wrote:

ejr wrote:

blowinupinmissoula wrote:very good points all across the board. one thing i havnt seen, maybe i missed it, but often times addicts have to hit the "rock bottom" to realize their problem. perhaps this trip being all inclusive with good friends might just be the rock bottom. im not saying it is a good thing to have this happen, but i know some people who have experienced the rock bottom who are now sober. im not sure how i would approach this, i dunno not a good situation. but maybe this trip will help your friend see his problem.

also as said above people in AA, or others do see everyone as an addict. one of my friends recently got sober, and cant see the balance. i tried to talk with him about social drinking, 2-3 beers here and there. all he would say was that im dependent and eventually i will be binge drinking all day everyday. it was kinda ridiculous, and i cant help but laugh at the paranioa. sorry if ive offended anybody, but it just seems like a crazy viewpoint to me.

And my friend who is 20+ years in recovery, and who really seems to do this right, has no problem with others drinking. Her family will come to her house for dinner and drink in her presence as have I (having asked her if it is ok with her). My other friend in the program also has that perspective-I am often at his home for dinner and the wine flows---just not through him. The same is true with many of each of their friends, so I am very hesitant to generalize about people in the program. If they work the program right, they come to understand that this is their issue and not necessarily everyone else's.

true, i have some friends who have been in recovery 20+ years as well, one of them enjoys a glass of wine here and there with dinner, i have never felt self conscious about drinking in front of them. I then have the friend who has been in the program only a year, who believes one who drinks A beer, 3 to four times a week is an alcoholic. I suppose its simply all different stages of individual beliefs and comforts....

If someone is "young" in their recovery - and to be honest a year in recovery is considered young, I personally wouldn't drink in front of them. I've known several people relapse just past their year date or right before it. One year clean and sober is nothing - maybe in the recovering persons eyes it is and should be but in the overall picture of recovery it's nothing.

If I knew someone was a recovering alcoholic, I wouldn't drink in front of them at all. Unless they were somewhere like a bar or something, where it would be expected. But if I was at their house or they were at my house, I'd stick to the non-alcoholic stuff.

It really just takes one moment of weakness for them to fall back off the wagon.