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Mottola-Buffett wrote:aren't WE the government.

No, we're not. We elect a very small part of the government. We fund the vast majority of the government. But we are not the government. That's akin to saying that we are McDonald's because we eat a Big Mac each week.

Skibo wrote:

buffettbride wrote:
I know people *with* health insurance who don't go to the doctor because it is prohibitive. Kinda defeats the purpose.

I grew up at the time where HMO's didn't exist. My parents had Major Medical that was it. Dr. visits they paid 100% prescriptions 100% shots 100%. I grew up believing insurance was intended to be used for hospitalization and emergency room type stuff. Emergency room stuff then was broken bones or huge gaping wounds that required stitches - not runny noses. Maybe people are expecting insurance to cover too much for the $$$ paid. Sure these HMO's came along and promised the moon and stars but perhaps their business model was wrong.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing necessarily. It's *almost* cheaper for me to pay out of pocket at the regular drs. office than it is to bill via insurance depending on if labs were done, etc.

The fact that parents take their child to the doctor for a sniffle just compounds the problem.

On the other hand, the situation with my husband's stitches, a time when you'd expect having insurance to be advantageous, proved not. It's disconcerting, to say the least.

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rednekkPH wrote:

Mottola-Buffett wrote:aren't WE the government.

No, we're not. We elect a very small part of the government. We fund the vast majority of the government. But we are not the government. That's akin to saying that we are McDonald's because we eat a Big Mac each week.

Hehe. Can I change your name to McFrankie?

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alphabits wrote:

LIPH wrote:What part of the Constitution says it's up to the government to provide health insurance to every citizen?

Why would any civilized nation with the resources of this one tolerate lack of basic health care for any of its citizens?

Where is the government going to get the resources to pay for health care for 300 million people? My taxes are pretty high already, I'd like to be able to keep some of the money I earn.

Mottola-Buffett wrote:My neighbor is a US Congressman. Does that make him the government, but not me... I gave him his job? (Not trying to be fecitious)

Yes it does. If you don't believe me, take a stroll onto the Floor someday when the House is in session and try to introduce a piece of legislation. I'd be interested to see how that works out for you.

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Skibo wrote:

buffettbride wrote:

LIPH wrote:What part of the Constitution says it's up to the government to provide health insurance to every citizen?

There's nothing in the Constitution that says the government has to provide clean drinking water to every citizen, either. Yet, my government continues to do so for a price I can afford.

This is something your local government does not the national government. You are also not taxed for this service, you pay for what you use.

Let's privatize clean water. Make everyone have to buy the water they need from a retailer. It's not broken, so let's fix the heck out of it.

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buffettbride wrote:

Skibo wrote:

buffettbride wrote:

LIPH wrote:What part of the Constitution says it's up to the government to provide health insurance to every citizen?

There's nothing in the Constitution that says the government has to provide clean drinking water to every citizen, either. Yet, my government continues to do so for a price I can afford.

This is something your local government does not the national government. You are also not taxed for this service, you pay for what you use.

Let's privatize clean water. Make everyone have to buy the water they need from a retailer. It's not broken, so let's fix the heck out of it.

Or, you can drill a well and get water that doesn't taste like it came from a swimming pool.

One thing that would bring the cost of health care down is tort reform. But too many politicians are owned by members of my profession for that to ever happen in my lifetime.

Disclaimer: The firm I work for doesn't do medical mapractice or personal injury cases so tort reform would help our clients but not our bottom line. If anything, it would probably hurt the firm because we wouldn't have as much defense work as we do now.

Mottola-Buffett wrote:

rednekkPH wrote:

Mottola-Buffett wrote:My neighbor is a US Congressman. Does that make him the government, but not me... I gave him his job? (Not trying to be fecitious)

Yes it does. If you don't believe me, take a stroll onto the Floor someday when the House is in session and try to introduce a piece of legislation. I'd be interested to see how that works out for you.

No, but I've sat with him and discussed issues and ideas that he has then introduced to fellow legislators, so that does make me a part of our democratic republic, doesn't it?

No, not really. To go back to my previous analogy, talking to your Congressman about issues is no different than making a suggestion to the franchise owner of your local Mickey D's for a new chicken sandwich.

buffettbride wrote:

Skibo wrote:

buffettbride wrote:

LIPH wrote:What part of the Constitution says it's up to the government to provide health insurance to every citizen?

There's nothing in the Constitution that says the government has to provide clean drinking water to every citizen, either. Yet, my government continues to do so for a price I can afford.

This is something your local government does not the national government. You are also not taxed for this service, you pay for what you use.

Let's privatize clean water. Make everyone have to buy the water they need from a retailer. It's not broken, so let's fix the heck out of it.

I think you are missing something here. You get a bill regularly and pay for the water you use. There is no subsidized water. Actually a lot of people do buy water from retailers because they are not happy with their local service. Now if you would like to provide medical care like water is provided, you would be paying for what you use. I don't think that is what anyone that needs medical services wants. It would be really cool for me because I would have pocketed over $25,000 over the last 5 years.

Mottola-Buffett wrote:

LIPH wrote:

alphabits wrote:

LIPH wrote:What part of the Constitution says it's up to the government to provide health insurance to every citizen?

Why would any civilized nation with the resources of this one tolerate lack of basic health care for any of its citizens?

Where is the government going to get the resources to pay for health care for 300 million people? My taxes are pretty high already, I'd like to be able to keep some of the money I earn.

How'd they just come up with $85 billion to bail out AIG??????????

I don't work for the Treasury Department or the Federal Reserve Bank, I don't know where the money came from. Maybe they went to Guido at 12th Ave. and 55th St. and asked for an advance. But the vig would probably be a little high.

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Mottola-Buffett wrote:But I have the option not to go to McDonalds, I do not have the option not to be a citizen of the US.... well, I do, but you know what I mean.

You most certainly do. I routinely tell people who call my office to b**** about how terrible this country is that there are many other fine options out there, and that if they hate it here so badly, maybe they should go check some of them out. I hear Ethiopia is lovely this time of year.

Skibo wrote:

buffettbride wrote:

Skibo wrote:

buffettbride wrote:

LIPH wrote:What part of the Constitution says it's up to the government to provide health insurance to every citizen?

There's nothing in the Constitution that says the government has to provide clean drinking water to every citizen, either. Yet, my government continues to do so for a price I can afford.

This is something your local government does not the national government. You are also not taxed for this service, you pay for what you use.

Let's privatize clean water. Make everyone have to buy the water they need from a retailer. It's not broken, so let's fix the heck out of it.

I think you are missing something here. You get a bill regularly and pay for the water you use. There is no subsidized water. Actually a lot of people do buy water from retailers because they are not happy with their local service. Now if you would like to provide medical care like water is provided, you would be paying for what you use. I don't think that is what anyone that needs medical services wants. It would be really cool for me because I would have pocketed over $25,000 over the last 5 years.

There are subsidies, though. Most municipalities I know provide water at a free or reduced rate for low-income folks.

Apartment dwellers often don't have to pay the cost of their monthly water usage (ultimately that cost is included in the overall rent). But, the landlords pay the water bill itself at the end of the month.

I'm certainly not about "pay for what you use" at all, but I do tire of the attitude of those that twist the "I'm healthy, so why do I have to pay the same as the person who isn't" mentality, which essentially, to me, equates to the same thing.

(and to be on the level, I don't favor mccain's plan over obama's or vice versa. it's quite possible either of them could be better than what's going on now.)

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buffettbride wrote:... but I do tire of the attitude of those that twist the "I'm healthy, so why do I have to pay the same as the person who isn't" mentality, which essentially, to me, equates to the same thing.

So do you think someone with a perfect driving record should pay the same as someone with accidents, tickets, license suspensions? Insurance is all about risk. If I'm less (or more) of a risk than someone else why shouldn't that be reflected in what I pay?