Game OFFICIALLY OVER for McCain and Palin!

[ScarletB]

You really think the collapse of the brokerage sector and insurers is a result of republican policy?

Just curious, LB, you're take on last week's financial debacle...you're blaming Republicans for it? You seriously don't feel that it's equal blame?

Certainly not entirely... but far from equally either.

The Republicans under Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II all espoused a fiscal policy of tax breaks (that most effectively impacted those in higher earning brackets) that created lower tax revenues,
and higher deficits resulting in a weak U.S. dollar. A country with a weak currency is completely gambling against its' future revenues, in our case a lessened trade deficit, but it was always thought to be appreciating by some here. No fear....

The Clinton period brought a return to a "pay down the debt", more balanced budget up against federal tax intake, and the dollar stabilized as a sound currency.
Yes, interest rates decreased under this administration, but the public wasn't listening, far too many were benefitting. You can debate the benefits/detriments of his administration's trade policies, and fiscal oversight, but nothing was allowed to slide to bring us to the levels we're at today.
While Clinton himself was far from perfect, the government did have a multi-year budget surplus when George W. Bush took office.

He decided that meant it was time to return to supply-side, deficit spending that was only made worse by 9/11 and the fictional reasons to go to war in Iraq.
We could have righted the ship right there, with a call for patriotic fiscal unity...but, no.
The idea that Americans could simply "go shopping" to save the quickly floundering economy was one completely championed by the president and the Republican-controlled legislature.
That same legislature deregulated the SEC to the point that short-selling stocks, particularly those more precarious housing lenders moved to the point of being cannibalistic and criminal.
The dollar, once again weak, has no leverage for lending institutions to use with world banks. The ever-worsening housing numbers just pushed it over the edge.

It is truly short-sighted leadership and sheer mismanagement that has brought us to this point.
Who was at the helm the past 8 years of this not-really-so-sudden downturn?

Alan Greenspan and Ben Bernanke


In your attempt to make Bush the fiscal villain you have oversimplified an internationally complex economic issue. Take a look at chart of the U.S. Dollar dating back to Bush I to Clinton to Bush II. You will be surprised to the see the dollar strongest in 02 and 03.

This fiasco has to do with many things, king among them is greed and greed does not respect anything including political ideology.

You're right there... greed dooms all.
But my point wasn't so much that W brought this on exclusively, but more the
economic ideology that all three of the last GOP presidents prescribed to: supply-side economics... the promise of a" trickle down effect"
from increased money in the pocket of business owners... utter folly!
There was your greed, alright.

G. H. Bush even derided it in the '80 election... "voodoo economics", as he ridiculed the ideal.
He would've been remembered as a greater POTUS if he had stuck to his guns.
But because he had to react to his inherited and growing deficits (he had no choice), he did raise taxes, and he fell on his political sword.

Reagan inherited 21.5% interest rates and the beginning of the creative mortgage package. An out of control unemployment rate and 13% inflation, "stagflation" You prefer that to what Bush I inherited?

Bottom line I think is this. We can point our political fingers in any direction we wish and I am positive if we point long and hard enough we can find the villain lurking behind their political ideology. But in reality "black swan" events occur outside political bounds but are relative to the cultural confines of the time. This fiasco fits that criteria and like it or not, no one policy, no one act, no one person is responsible for this mess.

I'm no expert in economics..and maybe my views are to simple...but perhaps we need to look at ourselves as being partially responsible for this mess.

Let me explain...we (Americans) are driven by having things bigger and better then what our parent had, what our neighbors have, etc. We use credit cards for everything....we want IMMEDIATE gratification...society and television tells us this is ok. And now we have a group of people with endless debt struggling to make ends meet. I'll use my exhusband as an example....he wanted the biggest house, nicest car, clothes, etc. Back in my parent's day...they would have saved until they had enough money to purchase those things.....not my ex....he'd use a credit card to buy everything....and it drove us into the ground....since our divorce...he has filed for bankruptcy and his house has been foreclosed on....He's not unique...there are many many people in the same situation. ANd what do they do? They are still eating out every meal (using a credit card)...still living beyond their means because they don't have the will power to just say no. This would also explain the overinflated salaries of key CEO's ...always wanting MORE MORE MORE!

I don't know...perhap this is too simple of view...but I think...if we tried to live as our parents and grandparents did...work hard, make sacrifices and use common sense, we would be better off financially...

I could not have said it better Shannon! As a mortgage lender I know for a fact that I would turn people down for good reasons (bad credit, not enough income etc) and they would go from lender to lender until they found someone who would say "Yes -sure you can get that house that you can't afford"

[sunseeker]

just reread my post.....please know that the divorce didn't drive him into the ground- he continued his behavior even after the divorce and obviously it all caught up with him and his new wife

[Moonie]

just reread my post.....please know that the divorce didn't drive him into the ground- he continued his behavior even after the divorce and obviously it all caught up with him and his new wife

I recall those days, Shannon. You've definitely moved on and have done very well. Congrats!

Smart woman in a real short skirt.... his loss.

[bumper]

ooops

[bumper]

Bottom line I think is this. We can point our political fingers in any direction we wish and I am positive if we point long and hard enough we can find the villain lurking behind their political ideology. But in reality "black swan" events occur outside political bounds but are relative to the cultural confines of the time. This fiasco fits that criteria and like it or not, no one policy, no one act, no one person is responsible for this mess.

I'm no expert in economics..and maybe my views are to simple...but perhaps we need to look at ourselves as being partially responsible for this mess.

Let me explain...we (Americans) are driven by having things bigger and better then what our parent had, what our neighbors have, etc. We use credit cards for everything....we want IMMEDIATE gratification...society and television tells us this is ok. And now we have a group of people with endless debt struggling to make ends meet. I'll use my exhusband as an example....he wanted the biggest house, nicest car, clothes, etc. Back in my parent's day...they would have saved until they had enough money to purchase those things.....not my ex....he'd use a credit card to buy everything....and it drove us into the ground....since our divorce...he has filed for bankruptcy and his house has been foreclosed on....He's not unique...there are many many people in the same situation. ANd what do they do? They are still eating out every meal (using a credit card)...still living beyond their means because they don't have the will power to just say no. This would also explain the overinflated salaries of key CEO's ...always wanting MORE MORE MORE!

I don't know...perhap this is too simple of view...but I think...if we tried to live as our parents and grandparents did...work hard, make sacrifices and use common sense, we would be better off financially...[/quote]

I could not have said it better Shannon! As a mortgage lender I know for a fact that I would turn people down for good reasons (bad credit, not enough income etc) and they would go from lender to lender until they found someone who would say "Yes -sure you can get that house that you can't afford"[/quote]

I think you've made an excellent point as the point made about wall street greed on crack and bingo we have a melt down.

And at the same time, one easily can make an argument that our cultural norms, values and rituals created the environment in which lack if individual fiscal responsibility and greed flourished.

[ejr]

I think we should vote like Chris Rock's reasoning (this is a joke of course - he was on Larry King so I thought this thread could use some humor........)

He said you have to vote for Obama bc he only has one house. McCain has 12 houses. So if he loses like 5 houses... he still has 7 left. Obama loses one - heloses it all so he is more motivated to fix the economy. I just think that is funny.

On a serious note. I notice on thefew times I come on these threads that (political) it gets heated quickly and so many people are so rude to others here when I don't think they have to be THAT rude to get points across. Respect the others opinion but don't make them feel like an idiot because they are voting one way. I think it's totally OK to view your opinions of the candidates negatively and say why you feel that way... Lord knows we all have our reasons = but you can do that without insulting other people on the board. Some of you are so guilty of rude comments - only a few so just be careful of HOW you say it and before you SEND .. ask yourself - would I be offended if someone posted this to me?

Maybe we should have one thread for Obama and one thread for McCain. If you want to dicuss your support for Obama - you go to that thread only. If you want to discuss support for McCain and vent about Obama - then you go to the McCain sight. That seems to be the only way on this board - too bad because I like discussing things with people even if I may not agree with them.

This is a tough election and I know it's a tough choice.. just make sure you all do your homework and try to be as informed as possible. But whatever you do and whoever you vote for - VOTE... especially women - we didn't always have the right and some women were beaten to try and get the right... so for them I say VOTE!!!

What she said.

If you vote by mail, make sure to mail your ballot far enough in advance that it arrives by Election Day. (I'll be sending mine in before I leave for MOTM.)

If you vote in person, make sure you know *in advance* where your polling place is, bring ID (driver's license) and something that proves you live at your current address (mail sent to you). Allow enough time for lines and slow or obstructionist poll workers, especially if you're in a less financially-advantaged neighborhood. Allow time for the weather, if it's a factor where you are.

If you've moved since the last time you voted, you need to reregister. And you probably need to do it tomorrow (Monday) at the very latest.

If you can get the day off work for it or if you're currently out of work, consider volunteering as a poll worker. They never have enough. See if your PHC wants to take it on as a service action.

This election is too important to be caught by unpreparedness, weird polling place tactics, hanging chads, etc. And it could very well be decided by a very few votes in a few states.

I'm Loren, and I approve this message.

And, if you have any problems with your vote being challenged, or being told you are not registered, etc. you should INSIST on a Provisional ballot (though you need to make sure you are voting in the correct precinct when you do this.)

[Lightning Bolt]

One thing's for certain...I'm feeling the economic pinch.
I've been on lay-off for 3 months now, and there's not much out there right now.
I'm back in school (nights), expanding my skills, and getting ready for an even more competitive job market.

..and I'll be skipping the Vegas show because I just can't slap down the credit card again.

[MileHighPirate]

OBAMA Supporters: Today is the final day to register to vote. Make sure friends, family and co-workers who are voting for Obama are registered today. Follow this link:

http://www.voteforchange.com/?source=20081006_CO_VFC_L


For McSame and Mary Moose Supporters, take the day off and consider it tomorrow!

[citcat]

Here's an interesting post I found:


Dear Friends,

The next few months are going to be politically intriguing ones for us all. It is natural that we will all have our opinions and wish to express them. During all of this, the mods hope to keep this board civil and friendly. So please know that we will not be tolerating anything but civil behavior. Any post with name calling, the use of profanity (even if it is typed using symbols), or post where it is perceived that the person is "yelling" (using all caps has long been known to portray "yelling or shouting" on the internet), will be subject to deleting. Let 's play nice and enjoy what makes our country unique and special - the ability to debate freely, and the ability to take part in the voting process.

Thank you

The mods....

uh oh.
So the use of "poopoohead" will not be allowed.


Seriously, I'm just hoping (no, praying) that this economic and confidence crisis passes soon, no matter what the outcome of election day.
Psalm 120.

egads I'm quoting Bible verses

[alphabits]

Here's an interesting post I found:


Dear Friends,

The next few months are going to be politically intriguing ones for us all. It is natural that we will all have our opinions and wish to express them. During all of this, the mods hope to keep this board civil and friendly. So please know that we will not be tolerating anything but civil behavior. Any post with name calling, the use of profanity (even if it is typed using symbols), or post where it is perceived that the person is "yelling" (using all caps has long been known to portray "yelling or shouting" on the internet), will be subject to deleting. Let 's play nice and enjoy what makes our country unique and special - the ability to debate freely, and the ability to take part in the voting process.

Thank you

The mods....

uh oh.
So the use of "poopoohead" will not be allowed.


Seriously, I'm just hoping (no, praying) that this economic and confidence crisis passes soon, no matter what the outcome of election day.
Psalm 120.

egads I'm quoting Bible verses

I just read Psalm 120 several times. I couldn't find "poopoohead" in there anywhere.

[SDPirate40]

I have never done a political post....but here goes, let the comments fly......

1. I am a republican.

2. I am well into the highest tax bracket and am appalled people want to tax me more juts because I make more. This makes me sick about Obama being elected and taking more of my hard earned money (yes, very hard earned with a 30 year career). I already will pay $800K in taxes this year!

3. Because of my tax situation, this drives my republican view.

4. I hate the war, and the idiot decision to go into a mid east country, ironically Bin Laden was not fan of Hussein either! This has been a horrible waste of lives on all fronts, has done little and is an example of USA imperialism. This one act made me very cross with Bush.

5. McCain, I agree, this is the best we could do? I am from Arizona, most zonies do not think much of him either.

6. Palin is a joke. Go forbid she is one heart beat away from running the USA.

7. Obama, I like him, except for his tax and spend policy.

8. Yes, the stupid war is costing us, and I agree, this was money thrown out the window and lives lost is the largest crime.

9. I do believe in govmt regulation of banks and the greedy Wall street herd.

All said, I guess Obama is the one, and he will be the lesser of two evils, even though he is going to go into my pocket for another $250K. Yes, I guess many would think this is a nce problem to have versus being laid off or employed for far less money. I wish everyone made money and had jobs, just do not think I should pay an inordinate amount for everyone else and big government on top of the inordinate amount I already pay.

[sunseeker]

I have never done a political post....but here goes, let the comments fly......

1. I am a republican.

2. I am well into the highest tax bracket and am appalled people want to tax me more juts because I make more. This makes me sick about Obama being elected and taking more of my hard earned money (yes, very hard earned with a 30 year career). I already will pay $800K in taxes this year!

3. Because of my tax situation, this drives my republican view.

4. I hate the war, and the idiot decision to go into a mid east country, ironically Bin Laden was not fan of Hussein either! This has been a horrible waste of lives on all fronts, has done little and is an example of USA imperialism. This one act made me very cross with Bush.

5. McCain, I agree, this is the best we could do? I am from Arizona, most zonies do not think much of him either.

6. Palin is a joke. Go forbid she is one heart beat away from running the USA.

7. Obama, I like him, except for his tax and spend policy.

8. Yes, the stupid war is costing us, and I agree, this was money thrown out the window and lives lost is the largest crime.

9. I do believe in govmt regulation of banks and the greedy Wall street herd.

All said, I guess Obama is the one, and he will be the lesser of two evils, even though he is going to go into my pocket for another $250K. Yes, I guess many would think this is a nce problem to have versus being laid off or employed for far less money. I wish everyone made money and had jobs, just do not think I should pay an inordinate amount for everyone else and big government on top of the inordinate amount I already pay.

I 've just got one thing to say( well really 3) about this.....














How YOU doin'? Are you single? Are you male (not really THAT important!)

[TheSecretsInTheCrust]

I hate to sound like a broken record, but in a nation of 300 million people are these 2 really the best we can come up with?

skip... skip... skip....

We have to stop pondering things that were decided months ago... and live in the NOW!

I think I've said this before too.
However this pans out....We're Screwed

[buffettbride]

[SharkOnLand]

Dammit, I just cleaned my monitor.

[krusin1]

SPEW!

Even us right-wing nutjobs think that's funny.

[buffettbride]

I only wish I had thought it up myself. Sadly, I'm merely the messenger.

[East Texas Parrothead]

I just spewed my monitor!

[Wino you know]

To the "spew" patrol:

I'm going to insert ANOTHER verb for this-

BARF!

[East Texas Parrothead]

To the "spew" patrol:

I'm going to insert ANOTHER verb for this-

BARF!

Garry: I laugh at all the jokes about Obama and Biden, too. Have even spewed over the ones about Biden's hair plugs.