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Elrod wrote:

ScarletB wrote:And Bill Ayers hasn't bombed anything in 30 years.

So that makes it ok?

Not in my book.



I still remember the names of the Marines that I buried in 1983. Senator "I have a bracelet too" Obama can't even remember the name of the soldier on the bracelet on his wrist.

Blowing up government buildings is a not a protest or a political statement. It's murder. If Ayers didn't kill anybody, it was not because he wasn't trying.

I was thinking the same thing E! If we allow ourselves to think its OK to create bombs and kill people then what separates us from the ANIMALS that flew those planes into the world trade center and pentagon? I'm sure they were justified in their reasoning too....murder is murder....

moeron wrote:Obama has the lead....Big deal!!! I will be voting for Obama. I think that most people are afraid of a "black" in the white house...

I don't care what color the President's skin is.... All I know is, we're a month from election day, after 2 years of "campaigning", and neither candidate has given me a clear picture of his plan to deal with the big issues facing this country. I hear a lot of "THE OTHER CANDIDATE CAN'T DO THE JOB" but not enough (any?) of "here's how *I* would run things." Specifics.... I want specifics.... But all I hear out of these two are platitudes and mud slinging...

I'm sorry, trying to make some kind of "evil" connection between Obama and Ayers is like saying McCain collaborated with the communists as a POW, therefore, he must be a communist.

For crying out loud, Obama was 10 years old when Ayers was up to no good. I am NOT condoning what he did. BUT it was 40 years ago. Hell, McCain went back to Vietnam, does that also mean he is STILL associating with Communist ?

Stop making something out of nothing.

rumdrinks wrote:I'm sorry, trying to make some kind of "evil" connection between Obama and Ayers is like saying McCain collaborated with the communists as a POW, therefore, he must be a communist.

McCain did not collaborate with the communists as a POW. Period.

rumdrinks wrote:I'm sorry, trying to make some kind of "evil" connection between Obama and Ayers is like saying McCain collaborated with the communists as a POW, therefore, he must be a communist.

For crying out loud, Obama was 10 years old when Ayers was up to no good. I am NOT condoning what he did. BUT it was 40 years ago. Hell, McCain went back to Vietnam, does that also mean he is STILL associating with Communist ?

Stop making something out of nothing.

The acts may have been 40 years ago, but Ayers has been unrepentant about it to this day.

I got nothing. Nothing to say to defend any of it.

A connection to Ayers doesn't mean Obama is a terrorist. Obama was a Chicago community activist as was Ayers in his later years. They were acquaintances.

I've been in a room with a bunch of Parrotheads. It doesn't make me an alcoholic or pot smoker nor do I have poor taste in music and no neither are a lot of people here but thats what other people(outsiders) want to believe of Buffett fans.

And those of you reading who do like their drink and a smoke of the green are still alright by me.

Guilt by association here - but the association isn't to community activism.

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

rumdrinks wrote:I'm sorry, trying to make some kind of "evil" connection between Obama and Ayers is like saying McCain collaborated with the communists as a POW, therefore, he must be a communist.

McCain did not collaborate with the communists as a POW. Period.

ya just gotta hate these liberal idiots on BN no matter who you are

diverg wrote:

rumdrinks wrote:I'm sorry, trying to make some kind of "evil" connection between Obama and Ayers is like saying McCain collaborated with the communists as a POW, therefore, he must be a communist.

For crying out loud, Obama was 10 years old when Ayers was up to no good. I am NOT condoning what he did. BUT it was 40 years ago. Hell, McCain went back to Vietnam, does that also mean he is STILL associating with Communist ?

Stop making something out of nothing.

The acts may have been 40 years ago, but Ayers has been unrepentant about it to this day.

I'm making an analogy, Obama had nothing to do with what Ayers did 40 years ago. Just as McCain had nothing to do with the VC, that he wan't tortured to do. The VC aren't unrepentant for what they did to POW's, but McCain still went back to meet them.

diverg wrote:

rumdrinks wrote:I'm sorry, trying to make some kind of "evil" connection between Obama and Ayers is like saying McCain collaborated with the communists as a POW, therefore, he must be a communist.

For crying out loud, Obama was 10 years old when Ayers was up to no good. I am NOT condoning what he did. BUT it was 40 years ago. Hell, McCain went back to Vietnam, does that also mean he is STILL associating with Communist ?

Stop making something out of nothing.

The acts may have been 40 years ago, but Ayers has been unrepentant about it to this day.

Statements made in 2001

Chicago Magazine reported that "just before the September 11th attacks," Richard Elrod, a city lawyer injured in the Weathermen's Chicago "Days of Rage," received an apology from Ayers and Dohrn for their part in the violence. "[T]hey were remorseful," Elrod says. "They said, 'We're sorry that things turned out this way.'"[18] In the months before Ayers' memoir was published on September 10, 2001, the author gave numerous interviews with newspaper and magazine writers in which he defended his overall history of radical words and actions. Some of the resulting articles were written just before the September 11 terrorist attacks and appeared immediately after, including one often-noted article in The New York Times, and another in the Chicago Tribune. Numerous observations were made in the media comparing the statements Ayers was making about his own past just as a dramatic new terrorist incident shocked the public.

Much of the controversy about Ayers during the decade since 2000 stems from an interview he gave to The New York Times on the occasion of the memoir's publication.[19] The reporter quoted him as saying "I don't regret setting bombs" and "I feel we didn't do enough", and, when asked if he would "do it all again" as saying "I don't want to discount the possibility."[14] Ayers has not denied the quotes, but he protested the interviewer's characterizations in a Letter to the Editor published September 15, 2001: "This is not a question of being misunderstood or 'taken out of context', but of deliberate distortion."[20]

In the ensuing years, Ayers has repeatedly avowed that when he said he had "no regrets" and that "we didn't do enough" he was speaking only in reference to his efforts to stop the United States from waging the Vietnam War, efforts which he has described as ". . . inadequate [as] the war dragged on for a decade."[21] Ayers has maintained that the two statements were not intended to imply a wish they had set more bombs.[21][22]

The interviewer also quoted some of Ayers' own criticism of Weatherman in the foreword to the memoir, whereby Ayers reacts to having watched Emile de Antonio's 1976 documentary film about Weatherman, Underground: "[Ayers] was 'embarrassed by the arrogance, the solipsism, the absolute certainty that we and we alone knew the way. The rigidity and the narcissism.' "[14] "We weren't terrorists," Ayers told an interviewer for the Chicago Tribune in 2001. "The reason we weren't terrorists is because we did not commit random acts of terror against people. Terrorism was what was being practiced in the countryside of Vietnam by the United States."[2]

In a letter to the editor in the Chicago Tribune, Ayers wrote, "I condemn all forms of terrorism — individual, group and official". He also condemned the September 11 terrorist attacks in that letter. "Today we are witnessing crimes against humanity on our own shores on an unthinkable scale, and I fear that we may soon see more innocent people in other parts of the world dying in response."[23]

Views on his past expressed since 2001

Ayers was asked in a January 2004 interview, "How do you feel about what you did? Would you do it again under similar circumstances?" He replied:[24] "I've thought about this a lot. Being almost 60, it's impossible to not have lots and lots of regrets about lots and lots of things, but the question of did we do something that was horrendous, awful? ... I don't think so. I think what we did was to respond to a situation that was unconscionable." On September 9, 2008, journalist Jake Tapper reported on the comic strip in Bill Ayers's blog explaining the soundbite: "The one thing I don't regret is opposing the war in Vietnam with every ounce of my being.... When I say, 'We didn't do enough,' a lot of people rush to think, 'That must mean, "We didn't bomb enough s***."' But that's not the point at all. It's not a tactical statement, it's an obvious political and ethical statement. In this context, 'we' means 'everyone.'"[25][26]

sunseeker wrote:

Elrod wrote:

ScarletB wrote:And Bill Ayers hasn't bombed anything in 30 years.

So that makes it ok?

Not in my book.



I still remember the names of the Marines that I buried in 1983. Senator "I have a bracelet too" Obama can't even remember the name of the soldier on the bracelet on his wrist.

Blowing up government buildings is a not a protest or a political statement. It's murder. If Ayers didn't kill anybody, it was not because he wasn't trying.

I was thinking the same thing E! If we allow ourselves to think its OK to create bombs and kill people then what separates us from the ANIMALS that flew those planes into the world trade center and pentagon? I'm sure they were justified in their reasoning too....murder is murder....

I had written a long dissertation but the post previous to mine puts it in perspective. Besides we aren't talking about electing Ayers President. My main point was why play "guilt by association" for something that was done when Obama was still a child. When he served on that committee with Ayers he knew him as an educator not a 60's radical. I may have expressed it badly in haste but that's what I meant. An attempt to discredit Obama because of this association is ludicrous

12vmanRick wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

rumdrinks wrote:I'm sorry, trying to make some kind of "evil" connection between Obama and Ayers is like saying McCain collaborated with the communists as a POW, therefore, he must be a communist.

McCain did not collaborate with the communists as a POW. Period.

ya just gotta hate these liberal idiots on BN no matter who you are

I could call you lovely names too, but I'm not the idiot you may be. All I was trying to say, was that people are trying to call Obama some kind of terrorist sympathizer because he had contact with someone for what they did 40 years ago.

rumdrinks wrote:

12vmanRick wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

rumdrinks wrote:I'm sorry, trying to make some kind of "evil" connection between Obama and Ayers is like saying McCain collaborated with the communists as a POW, therefore, he must be a communist.

McCain did not collaborate with the communists as a POW. Period.

ya just gotta hate these liberal idiots on BN no matter who you are

I could call you lovely names too, but I'm not the idiot you may be. All I was trying to say, was that people are trying to call Obama some kind of terrorist sympathizer because he had contact with someone for what they did 40 years ago.

I think he's yanking our chain - I've learned that much.

12vmanRick wrote:

rumdrinks wrote:

12vmanRick wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

rumdrinks wrote:I'm sorry, trying to make some kind of "evil" connection between Obama and Ayers is like saying McCain collaborated with the communists as a POW, therefore, he must be a communist.

McCain did not collaborate with the communists as a POW. Period.

ya just gotta hate these liberal idiots on BN no matter who you are

I could call you lovely names too, but I'm not the idiot you may be. All I was trying to say, was that people are trying to call Obama some kind of terrorist sympathizer because he had contact with someone for what they did 40 years ago.

post deleted by moderator

And a racist to boot!!

This took a bad turn due to someones backward thinking remark . . .

And because I am a Parrothead and have chatted with this person before and share a commonality in our musical tastes I too am now a racist . . .

Mod cleanup - Isle 4!!!

I guess it was only a matter of time . . .

I wish Buffett would collaborate with some rappers so we can get this drabble out of our systems . . . WAIT ONE SECOND . . . Nadirah was a member of Arrested Development which was a political and socially motivated rap group . . . the penned a song for Spike Lee's Malcom X movie!

:::DUH DUH DUH::::
Jimmy Buffett and Mac McAnally are members of the Black Panthers due to this association.

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

rumdrinks wrote:I'm sorry, trying to make some kind of "evil" connection between Obama and Ayers is like saying McCain collaborated with the communists as a POW, therefore, he must be a communist.

McCain did not collaborate with the communists as a POW. Period.

To be fair I don't think that's what they were implying. But I've always heard conflicting reports so I looked it up and found the following. Now don't get me wrong, there's no WAY I could survive any of what he went though so I obviously pass NO judgement no matter what he did. But I did find what is supposedly his own words from his book. Just for what it's worth...



In the book, co-written with Mark Salter, McCain recounts the grievous wounds he suffered when shot down and afterward at the hands of angry Vietnamese.

He was taken to the Maison Centrale, known to POWs as the Hanoi Hilton, where he did lapse in and out of consciousness for four days and refuse his interrogators' demands for information. But then, McCain recounts, he tried a different approach with a prison officer nicknamed "Bug.''

"Desperate, I tried to bargain with him. 'Take me to the hospital and I'll give you the information you want.' I didn't intend to keep my word, reasoning that after my injuries had been treated, I would be strong enough to deal with the consequences of not holding up my end of the bargain,'' McCain wrote.

As for never cooperating with Vietnamese, McCain also admits he eventually gave up information about his ship and Navy squadron. "I regret very much having done so,'' he wrote.

Let me say again before I get in trouble, whatever he had to do to stay sane and alive is OK by me. I'd cave for a lot less. Looks like he said just enough to keep them from killing him or torturing him further. I don't know anyone who wouldn't have done the same thing.

ScarletB wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

rumdrinks wrote:I'm sorry, trying to make some kind of "evil" connection between Obama and Ayers is like saying McCain collaborated with the communists as a POW, therefore, he must be a communist.

McCain did not collaborate with the communists as a POW. Period.

To be fair I don't think that's what they were implying. But I've always heard conflicting reports so I looked it up and found the following. Now don't get me wrong, there's no WAY I could survive any of what he went though so I obviously pass NO judgement no matter what he did. But I did find what is supposedly his own words from his book. Just for what it's worth...



In the book, co-written with Mark Salter, McCain recounts the grievous wounds he suffered when shot down and afterward at the hands of angry Vietnamese.

He was taken to the Maison Centrale, known to POWs as the Hanoi Hilton, where he did lapse in and out of consciousness for four days and refuse his interrogators' demands for information. But then, McCain recounts, he tried a different approach with a prison officer nicknamed "Bug.''

"Desperate, I tried to bargain with him. 'Take me to the hospital and I'll give you the information you want.' I didn't intend to keep my word, reasoning that after my injuries had been treated, I would be strong enough to deal with the consequences of not holding up my end of the bargain,'' McCain wrote.

As for never cooperating with Vietnamese, McCain also admits he eventually gave up information about his ship and Navy squadron. "I regret very much having done so,'' he wrote.

Let me say again before I get in trouble, whatever he had to do to stay sane and alive is OK by me. I'd cave for a lot less. Looks like he said just enough to keep them from killing him or torturing him further. I don't know anyone who wouldn't have done the same thing.

There is a HUGE difference between being tortured into giving up information and "collaborating with the communists".... McCain, like most (all?) of the POWs, was tortured into giving up information. He did NOT collaborate. He was even offered early release because his father was Pacific Commander and refused because it broke with "first captured, first released" protocol.

ScarletB wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

rumdrinks wrote:I'm sorry, trying to make some kind of "evil" connection between Obama and Ayers is like saying McCain collaborated with the communists as a POW, therefore, he must be a communist.

McCain did not collaborate with the communists as a POW. Period.

To be fair I don't think that's what they were implying. But I've always heard conflicting reports so I looked it up and found the following. Now don't get me wrong, there's no WAY I could survive any of what he went though so I obviously pass NO judgement no matter what he did. But I did find what is supposedly his own words from his book. Just for what it's worth...


In the book, co-written with Mark Salter, McCain recounts the grievous wounds he suffered when shot down and afterward at the hands of angry Vietnamese.

He was taken to the Maison Centrale, known to POWs as the Hanoi Hilton, where he did lapse in and out of consciousness for four days and refuse his interrogators' demands for information. But then, McCain recounts, he tried a different approach with a prison officer nicknamed "Bug.''

"Desperate, I tried to bargain with him. 'Take me to the hospital and I'll give you the information you want.' I didn't intend to keep my word, reasoning that after my injuries had been treated, I would be strong enough to deal with the consequences of not holding up my end of the bargain,'' McCain wrote.

As for never cooperating with Vietnamese, McCain also admits he eventually gave up information about his ship and Navy squadron. "I regret very much having done so,'' he wrote.

Let me say again before I get in trouble, whatever he had to do to stay sane and alive is OK by me. I'd cave for a lot less. Looks like he said just enough to keep them from killing him or torturing him further. I don't know anyone who wouldn't have done the same thing.

thank you, what I wrote may have been misinterpreted by some. All I was trying to say was that people are trying to make Obama out to be some kind of terrorist by association with someone for what they did 40 years ago. I have nothing but the utmost respect for McCain for what he had to endure. The ridiculousness of it is like trying to associate McCain with Communists. That's all I was trying to compare. period.

TropicalTroubador wrote:

Wino you know wrote:

BFinnsUp wrote:No one said you have to be an Ivy-leaguer to do well for yourself. However, I am a firm believer in education. Entrepreneurship, hard work, and education are what have made this country great.

Years ago, YES, agree 100%.
But these days, the public education system, ESPECIALLY the colleges and universities, are nothing more than liberal & socilaist indoctrination centers.

As opposed to all of those nice Catholic private schools? Tell me, with a straight face, that there is no "indoctrination" going on there.

Nope. No indoctrination. And my face is as straight as "Little" Garry in the presence of Sandra Bullock.
And the kids in private Catholic schools aren't taught to hate politicians simply for having an "R" after their name.

With all due respect, how much of what you claim is material that you've researched independently after hearing Rush and Sean tell you about it? I'm hearing generalizations and namecalling; I'm not seeing independently-verified facts. "I saw it on FOX news" doesn't count.

I don't SEE anything on Fox News. However, I hear plenty from Mr. Hannity & Mr. O'Reiley. GOD, how I wish Glenn Beck would go to work for Fox News.
LOOKIT, those guys can all say what they want. I base MY claims on what I see coming OUT of those schools. I'm NOT blaming the students. They seem to have more common sense and rationality than the Marxists doing the indoctrinating. Sure, some of the graduating students become wayward souls for a while. But I attribute that to youthful ignorance. Everyone goes through it at some time or other.
But there's no excuse for the professors being the brain washers they are.

Whatever happened to the relatively civil discussion on this thread five or six pages ago? People were disagreeing, but they weren't calling each other names and cutting each other down personally.

I'm not calling anyone here any names. I try to be civil most of the time, but two or three people make it pretty difficult.
Thank God for beer, right?

How about we all take a minute to close our eyes, take a deep breath, and dream about that warm sunny beach and that cold fruity rum drink, and start over? Is that too much to ask?

Works for me.