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sunseeker wrote:I hope to God they have the video and can identify those people and hold them accountable. Throw them in jail for the rest of their lives and teach a lesson...

if they want to teach them a lesson, send them to Pamplona and have them run with the bulls.

sunseeker wrote:I hope to God they have the video and can identify those people and hold them accountable. Throw them in jail for the rest of their lives and teach a lesson...

Everybody that I've talked to about this agrees wholeheartedly that they should find those people and charge them with manslaughter. Didn't they break the doors down ? Yep. Manslaughter, at the very least.

The store reopened at 1 pm the same day. Obviously it's all about making money. I wonder where the liability for this man's death lies, given that he died on the job at a planned event?

Maybe retailers will need to start including a waiver in their future employment agreements:

"I agree to absolve Wal Mart (Best Buy, etc) of any blame if I am trampled to death by customers on Black Friday" or words to that effect.

Consumerist society meets mob mentality.

flyboy55 wrote:The store reopened at 1 pm the same day. Obviously it's all about making money. I wonder where the liability for this man's death lies, given that he died on the job at a planned event?

Maybe retailers will need to start including a waiver in their future employment agreements:

"I agree to absolve Wal Mart (Best Buy, etc) of any blame if I am trampled to death by customers on Black Friday" or words to that effect.

Consumerist society meets mob mentality.

It won't bring him back, and I'm not usually one for litigation, but I hope the family sues the *crap* outta that store for not having appropriate crowd control.

And I hope they catch and prosecute the miserable excuses for human beings who ran him over.

How terrible. Even when hubby and I come across line cutters on black Friday, if they aren't intimidated by his size alone and back off, we just let it go. No sale is good enough.

I can't speak for all Walmarts, but our local one does a good job at crowd control on BF....but seriously, there are some things you just can't anticipate. Every year there are a couple of fights....this year was no exception....two arrests were made when some people got in to a scuffle over something.....

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

flyboy55 wrote:The store reopened at 1 pm the same day. Obviously it's all about making money. I wonder where the liability for this man's death lies, given that he died on the job at a planned event?

Maybe retailers will need to start including a waiver in their future employment agreements:

"I agree to absolve Wal Mart (Best Buy, etc) of any blame if I am trampled to death by customers on Black Friday" or words to that effect.

Consumerist society meets mob mentality.

It won't bring him back, and I'm not usually one for litigation, but I hope the family sues the *crap* outta that store for not having appropriate crowd control.

And I hope they catch and prosecute the miserable excuses for human beings who ran him over.

Me too. But they won't. I imagine it was probably a couple of dozen eager shoppers who left footprints on him. I wonder if they even realized there was a human being down there having the life trampled out of him?

Picture Christmas morning . . .

"Merry Christmas, honey! I hope you like the 52" plasma screen TV! You wouldn't BELIEVE what I had to do to get it!"

This is beyond sickening and speaks of our society as a whole. It was clearly mob mentality. This is suppose to be the Season of love and joy and caring for all of Mankind as a whole.

I agree, clearly marketing and mass merchandisers offering such "deals" have their roles to play in this. Lack of proper security, as well. However the people have themselves to blame too. They are the ones who actually killed him. Those people involved have lost all respect for their fellow human beings and do not care. A pregnant woman and several others were also injured. I hope that the meaning of Christmas finally hits home to them.

This is an article about the situation that reveals a bit more. It says that people saw him laying there and stepped over him and people kept shopping after they were told to leave.
The police are reviewing the video tape to try and identify those involved.
They do not have much hope for success though. I seriously doubt many will come forward on their own. Perhaps some of the family members and friends or others that were there, will start talking.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,459068,00.html

One simple way to track the individuals down, is to track people by their credit card or debit card, or checks spent in the store. There are usually videos of of customers at check out aisles available.

I really cannot think of any punishment suitable or reason to attempt an excuse, of such behavior for all of those involved. A man needlessly lost his life. His family and friends needlessly lost a loved one, all because of mob mentality.

Would taking those involved away, be a benefit to any of their families? Would making an example of all of them, set an example to others to prevent such conduct? When such people refuse to control themselves or do not consider any care for other humans?

What is the answer? Who really knows? Maybe sentence everyone of them to public service for the rest of their lives. Serving in jobs providing for the homeless and others and communites in need? They must pay somehow, without costing everyone else. They have already cost far more than enough.

They took a man, a fellow human's life, and injured other people. Including a pregnant woman. They damaged the doors to the store. They carried on as if nothing had happened.

It is just as sickening as those who tell a person to jump from a very high building or witness someone commit suicide over the net. Do they really want to see someone they do not know, die in front of them and be a part of their death and see it up close and personal? Such conduct says a lot about our society and how much people care anymore and have not for some time.
Especially THIS TIME OF YEAR, Let alone any other time!
May a fitting justice be upon all of those involved, and Peace be upon the man who needlessly lost his life, his family and friends.

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

flyboy55 wrote:The store reopened at 1 pm the same day. Obviously it's all about making money. I wonder where the liability for this man's death lies, given that he died on the job at a planned event?

Maybe retailers will need to start including a waiver in their future employment agreements:

"I agree to absolve Wal Mart (Best Buy, etc) of any blame if I am trampled to death by customers on Black Friday" or words to that effect.

Consumerist society meets mob mentality.

It won't bring him back, and I'm not usually one for litigation, but I hope the family sues the *crap* outta that store for not having appropriate crowd control.

And I hope they catch and prosecute the miserable excuses for human beings who ran him over.

It's not Walmarts fault....
However, they have deep pockets, and I am sure the family will sue, they will settle out of court for millions.

People need to look at themselves, and stop acting like animals.

I have a feeling that this event will change some retailers policies in the future.

Brown Eyed Girl wrote:It is truly sickening..and who's to blame? I blame the retailers, the media and our gluttonous society. We have totally lost sight of what is important in life. Guess what? This same stuff was on sale last week, and will continue to be on sale in the weeks leading up to Christmas. Maybe there were a few big ticket items at certain stores that were a deal. Those stores should have handed out vouchers for those who were first in line, and when the vouchers were gone, tough luck. There certainly are ways to prevent what happened today...so which retailer is going to step up and make the change?

We never had this BS when I was growing up. The day after Christmas was a big deal, but none of this stuff leading up to it.

If people are willing to go to these extremes for non essential items, what is going to happen when it becomes a nationwide shortage of food, gas, whatever? Be afraid....be very, very afraid.

Amen.

I worked retail, lo these many years ago, and that first-thing-Friday-morning rush was frenetic and frightening even in the 70s. I'm only surprised that it's taken this long for people to start dying. Society, retail stores, *everyone* has had plenty of warning that this might happen. But every year the stores open earlier, the wording in the ads becomes more urgent, the typeface becomes bigger and bolder. They encourage the frenzy. I hope Mall-Wart gets their ganoogies sued off over this.

And sadly, yes...I also agree that in the times of shortage and crisis that nearly anyone with a sense of history has predicted, it will be ugly.

Be good to each other, be good to the people around you, and maybe we can unwind each other just a bit. True security is making sure that everyone around you has enough.

I agree, Kat!

There were people CAMPED OUT at Best Buy on Thanksgiving.....
I just kept thinking "What kind of a person would give up Thanksgiving with their family to buy a F*C*ING electronic gadget? I think we've answered the question....the same ones that would trampled a human being to buy a toy.......

There was an article in our paper yesterday that showed a picture of a lady with a huge BITE MARK on her arm....she had spent hours next to some ride-on electric kid jeep thing to get it for her kid.....and another lady BIT HER to get her to let go of it....fortunately the retailer was ON IT and she was detained and arrested for MAYHEM, Merry Christmas, Asshat.....

MDown wrote:It's not Walmarts fault....
However, they have deep pockets, and I am sure the family will sue, they will settle out of court for millions.

People need to look at themselves, and stop acting like animals.

I have a feeling that this event will change some retailers policies in the future.

Although I hold the people who trampled him primarily at fault, I think WalMart does bear some responsibility. They set up the conditions for it to happen then didn't have the crowd control the situation required. It'd be kinda like a venue holding a JB concert and not having any security near the stage. Even Charleston would get run over....

What I find sad is that people keep talking about how bad the recession is....that "we are heading into another depression". So instead of standing in line for food (like during the great depression) we are standing in line for tvs, radio, video games....Yes times are hard but we are STILL the richest nation in the world. And even during the great depression, I'm not sure anyone would have been trampled to death...even over food....

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

MDown wrote:It's not Walmarts fault....
However, they have deep pockets, and I am sure the family will sue, they will settle out of court for millions.

People need to look at themselves, and stop acting like animals.

I have a feeling that this event will change some retailers policies in the future.

Although I hold the people who trampled him primarily at fault, I think WalMart does bear some responsibility. They set up the conditions for it to happen then didn't have the crowd control the situation required. It'd be kinda like a venue holding a JB concert and not having any security near the stage. Even Charleston would get run over....

I'm with you on that Jen!!! I DO think that Walmart bears some responsibility on this!!!

I think they should make a MANDATORY ticket issue to all guests in line, then call people into the store by "number".... This way there's no rush to the doors when they open.

Now I'm sure some people will "attack" this idea saying hey you're breaking with tradition, the Black Friday "Rush" and all of that. But honestly people who participate in these "rushes" deserve to be trampled themselves....

In general a crowd of people pushing is like a "wave" there's no fighting it or you'll go under yourself

Glorfindel7 wrote:I think they should make a MANDATORY ticket issue to all guests in line, then call people into the store by "number".... This way there's no rush to the doors when they open.

I think BestBuy had a ticketing system...based on what I saw on their web page Friday morning.

nycfeat wrote:

Glorfindel7 wrote:I think they should make a MANDATORY ticket issue to all guests in line, then call people into the store by "number".... This way there's no rush to the doors when they open.

I think BestBuy had a ticketing system...based on what I saw on their web page Friday morning.

I have seen such been done before. Only the people that had "tickets" could purchase "the" of a certain known limited item. That did not stop people from lining up. Those people were for the most part well behaved. No one was injured. They did not rush the doors in an uncontrolled or mob mentality like a herd of stampeding cattle.

Quite a few stores now offer, if you can find an advertised product cheaper than they offer it and bring in the advertisement, they will honor that price. I am not familair with all of the various details involved in such.
Killing someone for an item or acts of violence against someone especially this time of year are reprehensible.

Look at so called road rage and how often it occurs. We are no longer a polite society as a whole.

People and society as a whole have forgotten what Christmas is about. Now people want to lay blame as to why the man lost his life. Certainly the Walmart store has some fault. but it could have easily occured at any other store. The only difference is, is that it did not happen in "their" store.
The basic blame comes down to those in line and their behavior and failing to act as responsible human beings.

This does not change the stores responsibility for safety and security of customers, anymore than it changes that policemen cannot possibly be everywhere, at every moment, to protect us or prevent crimminals from doing what they do. No way am I insulting the job that those that work in law enforcement have to do. I am saying that personal responsibility and respect for human life, (let alone remembering what Christmas Spirit really is and about) would have easily prevented this from happening.
It trully saddens and sickens me of such conduct, and it should everyone else.
I wonder how many people might be injured or hurt in any manner, if some store offered it had "50 FREE Jimmy Buffett tickets" and a limited ammount with backstage access at discounted prices, just how cordial and respectful of others parrotheads would actually be? How many have said they would do anything to get a ticket? Do the people that trampled that man and injured others, damaged the door, really think they would ever be involved in in such? They actually did "the anything" to get what they wanted. It doesn't matter how much security was or was not there.
It does not matter who owned the store as it could as easily happened at any store anywhere. Those that have said they would do anything to get "it".

Blame it on and lay fault wherever you want, no matter. The fault ultimately breaks down to our society as a whole. For the majority of the blame. The rest of the blame is minute in comparison. Laying blame anywhere else, will not bring back the life that was lost.

I am not taking away any blame for the store involved or lack of security, the advertisers, or whatever. I want the ultimate blame to be placed where it should. Upon the people with the mob mentality that killed, injured, and destroyed property, and stepped over the fallen man and carried on as if nothing had happened. We must accept that fact before we can do anything about preventing similair incidents from happening again.

I grew up in Valley Stream and lived there for many years. This Wal-Mart is about 2 miles from where I used to live. Can't say I'm surprised this happened. And not because it's Wal-Mart either.

I gave up going out early on black friday for this reason.

I would rather pay a couple dollars more and sleep in late than fight my way through those crowds anymore. No offense to anyone here who likes that scene...it's just not for me.