BuffettNews.com

SMLCHNG wrote:

pema wrote: i know. just sayin' we don't get that here

Lucky you.

tell me that again in the summer when it's 100 in the shade

pema wrote:

SMLCHNG wrote:

pema wrote: i know. just sayin' we don't get that here

Lucky you.

tell me that again in the summer when it's 100 in the shade

NOTE TO SELF: Remind Erin.

i park in a garage!!!...but after so you can warm up the windshield to make scraping easier!!

pema wrote:

SMLCHNG wrote:

pema wrote: i know. just sayin' we don't get that here

Lucky you.

tell me that again in the summer when it's 100 in the shade

rather have that then the cold

Capt.Flock wrote:

pema wrote:

SMLCHNG wrote:

pema wrote: i know. just sayin' we don't get that here

Lucky you.

tell me that again in the summer when it's 100 in the shade

rather have that then the cold

i thought penguins liked the cold.

but we'd luv to have you down here.

Start car first....But Boobies are nice to.

Click and Clack speak pretty strongly about NOT warming up your car. Why don't you use warm water? We fill a water bottle with luke warm water berfore we leave, start the car, turn on the wipers and pour the luke warm water on the windshield..... No more ice.

Tequila Revenge wrote:Click and Clack speak pretty strongly about NOT warming up your car. Why don't you use warm water? We fill a water bottle with luke warm water berfore we leave, start the car, turn on the wipers and pour the luke warm water on the windshield..... No more ice.

missed that show, but unfortunately below a certain temperature, lukewarm water is just going to add to your problems before it warms the glass enough to remove the frost. and warming the car also has the nice side benefit of keeping frost from forming as your breath hits the chilled glass of the windshield on the inside...

RinglingRingling wrote:

Tequila Revenge wrote:Click and Clack speak pretty strongly about NOT warming up your car. Why don't you use warm water? We fill a water bottle with luke warm water berfore we leave, start the car, turn on the wipers and pour the luke warm water on the windshield..... No more ice.

missed that show, but unfortunately below a certain temperature, lukewarm water is just going to add to your problems before it warms the glass enough to remove the frost. and warming the car also has the nice side benefit of keeping frost from forming as your breath hits the chilled glass of the windshield on the inside...

I guess you'll need to add that to the list of why others hate us pholks that live in California We can de- ice our windows with luke warm water

I warm up my car first.... usually helps with the scraping.

Tequila Revenge wrote:

RinglingRingling wrote:

Tequila Revenge wrote:Click and Clack speak pretty strongly about NOT warming up your car. Why don't you use warm water? We fill a water bottle with luke warm water berfore we leave, start the car, turn on the wipers and pour the luke warm water on the windshield..... No more ice.

missed that show, but unfortunately below a certain temperature, lukewarm water is just going to add to your problems before it warms the glass enough to remove the frost. and warming the car also has the nice side benefit of keeping frost from forming as your breath hits the chilled glass of the windshield on the inside...

I guess you'll need to add that to the list of why others hate us pholks that live in California We can de- ice our windows with luke warm water

most winter mornings here, lukewarm water would turn to 1/4" thick ice in about thirty seconds......if it's not too icy, the spray on de-icer works pretty well, but it's kind of expensive for daily use.

So.. it would surprise you to know that it's about Half and Half in the parking lot?

and yes I walk by the cars to check if they are running..

RinglingRingling wrote:

Tequila Revenge wrote:Click and Clack speak pretty strongly about NOT warming up your car. Why don't you use warm water? We fill a water bottle with luke warm water berfore we leave, start the car, turn on the wipers and pour the luke warm water on the windshield..... No more ice.

missed that show, but unfortunately below a certain temperature, lukewarm water is just going to add to your problems before it warms the glass enough to remove the frost. and warming the car also has the nice side benefit of keeping frost from forming as your breath hits the chilled glass of the windshield on the inside...

And besides adding to the problem, below a certain temperature even lukewarm water risks cracking your windshield....





gawd I need to move to Hawaii....................

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

RinglingRingling wrote:

Tequila Revenge wrote:Click and Clack speak pretty strongly about NOT warming up your car. Why don't you use warm water? We fill a water bottle with luke warm water berfore we leave, start the car, turn on the wipers and pour the luke warm water on the windshield..... No more ice.

missed that show, but unfortunately below a certain temperature, lukewarm water is just going to add to your problems before it warms the glass enough to remove the frost. and warming the car also has the nice side benefit of keeping frost from forming as your breath hits the chilled glass of the windshield on the inside...

And besides adding to the problem, below a certain temperature even lukewarm water risks cracking your windshield....





gawd I need to move to Hawaii....................

If youu have any cracks of scratches in the glass they will act as a stress riser and when the temperature differential hits it it will, at best make the crack grow or at worst shatter out the glass....... I have shattered windsheids by simply turning up the defroster while I got the kids out of their snow suits and ski gear (about 15+ minutes)......Makes for an interesting ride home.....

An average cold morning in the Sierra the temp is still above 25F

Check this out

Hot water can crack a windshield, but lukewarm water does the job in seconds without the risk of cracking. Boil a very small amount of water in the kettle (few inches), fill the rest with cold water (you should be able to put your hand in the water and it feel lukewarm). Turn the engine on, turn the blowers on (avoids condensation), turn the wipers on (to get rid of the water quickly) and simply pour over the windshield. Not recommended in temperatures below -6 degrees since it will ice up again very quickly before the wipers can get it off.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... e=2&cat=27

[imgsize=]To warm-up or not to warm-up[/imgsize]

http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/ca ... 69811.page

As I think most people have, I grew up with the understanding that warming up your vehicle before a drive was a good thing. I recently received a newsletter in the mail urging me not to warm-up my vehicle this winter as it is bad for the environment and no good for my engine. I agree with the environmental damage, but is warming-up harmful to my cars engine?

Briefly:

1. Your engine warms up quickest with some load on it, i.e. driving it.
2. An idling engine runs very ineffienctly and pollutes more than a loaded one. In addition, your are not moving while you're idling; causing even more waste.
3. The fuel/air mixture during idling is not the best for maximum engine life; raw gas washes the oil off the cylinder walls.
4. If you warm up the engine first, than take off fast, you are putting incredible strain on the other components of the car that are still cold. Taking off shortly after starting warms up the whole power train and suspension together.

In spite of the (4) points, you need to idle the car long engough to get the engine oil to circulate to the valve gear on top of the engine. In most of the US, with 5W30 oil this takes no more than 20 seconds or so. If you start the car, belt yourself in, check mirrors, you should be ready to take off gently and when the temperature gage is half way to normal, you can blast off.
In all cases, make sure your windows are clear before taking off.

Happy and GREEN motoring!!

Tequila Revenge wrote:An average cold morning in the Sierra the temp is still above 25F

Check this out

Hot water can crack a windshield, but lukewarm water does the job in seconds without the risk of cracking. Boil a very small amount of water in the kettle (few inches), fill the rest with cold water (you should be able to put your hand in the water and it feel lukewarm). Turn the engine on, turn the blowers on (avoids condensation), turn the wipers on (to get rid of the water quickly) and simply pour over the windshield. Not recommended in temperatures below -6 degrees since it will ice up again very quickly before the wipers can get it off.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... e=2&cat=27

[imgsize=]To warm-up or not to warm-up[/imgsize]

http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/ca ... 69811.page

As I think most people have, I grew up with the understanding that warming up your vehicle before a drive was a good thing. I recently received a newsletter in the mail urging me not to warm-up my vehicle this winter as it is bad for the environment and no good for my engine. I agree with the environmental damage, but is warming-up harmful to my cars engine?

Briefly:

1. Your engine warms up quickest with some load on it, i.e. driving it.
2. An idling engine runs very ineffienctly and pollutes more than a loaded one. In addition, your are not moving while you're idling; causing even more waste.
3. The fuel/air mixture during idling is not the best for maximum engine life; raw gas washes the oil off the cylinder walls.
4. If you warm up the engine first, than take off fast, you are putting incredible strain on the other components of the car that are still cold. Taking off shortly after starting warms up the whole power train and suspension together.

In spite of the (4) points, you need to idle the car long engough to get the engine oil to circulate to the valve gear on top of the engine. In most of the US, with 5W30 oil this takes no more than 20 seconds or so. If you start the car, belt yourself in, check mirrors, you should be ready to take off gently and when the temperature gage is half way to normal, you can blast off.
In all cases, make sure your windows are clear before taking off.

Happy and GREEN motoring!!

OK ....I'll take the other hand view on this one........

1. Yes it is true that it warms up quickest when there is a load on it.......this also poses the highest thermal stress on all components in the engine. Modern engines use a wide variety of materials in the running gear of the engine (Aluminum pistons, forged steel connecting rods, forged nodular iron cranckshafts, brass or bronze valve guides, sometimes aluminum heads....etc, etc.....). Each of these materials "grows" at a different rate when heated (refer to your basic Pysics 101 on thermal expansion) and while these engines are designed to accomodate the differential growth of the parts as they are heated up to operating temperatures, if you put excess load too soon on the engine while the parts are not in their "operational" temperature you can put excessive wear on the parts as the clearances can be smaller and cause contact or they can be larger and be "sloppy" in there clearances.

2. Yes a "Cold" engine is not as efficent as one that is warmed up (due primarily to clearances and Cold air intake)

3. Most modern engines are electronicly fuel injected.....fuel air ratios are very accuratly temperature compensated and are very similar to warmed up engines....not so with carburated engines, Carburated engines generally rely on a bimetalic strip on the butterfly valve....as the strip heats up it opens up the butterfly valve to allow more air into the engine (automatic choke)......An engine in a "choked" valve position runs very inefficently (fuel rich)...BUT it will start more reliably and is less prone to flooding.

4. Partially true.......in either case; not warming up or warming up first...if you take off fast you are putting a lot of stress on the rest of the running gear (driveline, differential, Front wheel bearings and or differential, .......these components are all warmed up by friction derived by the motion of the vehicle....as such the vehicle needs to be moving to get them warmed up and it doesn't matter if you warm it up the engine or not.....driving it hard while cold will have the same effect on these components......). NOW....the second most important part of your drive train is your Transmission....most modern transmissions (both automatic as well as manual) have a transmission oil cooler....while the primary job of the cooler is to Cool the oil, while the engine is warming up the transmission oil cooler is actualy warming up Due to its position behind the radiator......the longer you warm up the engine the longer you warm up the tranny as well..........


Ok ....getting off my soap box now........

An idling engine runs very ineffienctly...

An idling engine runs completely inefficiently. There is no work being done!
(Remind you of anybody you know? )

Dutch Harbor PH wrote:

Tequila Revenge wrote:An average cold morning in the Sierra the temp is still above 25F

Check this out

Hot water can crack a windshield, but lukewarm water does the job in seconds without the risk of cracking. Boil a very small amount of water in the kettle (few inches), fill the rest with cold water (you should be able to put your hand in the water and it feel lukewarm). Turn the engine on, turn the blowers on (avoids condensation), turn the wipers on (to get rid of the water quickly) and simply pour over the windshield. Not recommended in temperatures below -6 degrees since it will ice up again very quickly before the wipers can get it off.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... e=2&cat=27

[imgsize=]To warm-up or not to warm-up[/imgsize]

http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/ca ... 69811.page

As I think most people have, I grew up with the understanding that warming up your vehicle before a drive was a good thing. I recently received a newsletter in the mail urging me not to warm-up my vehicle this winter as it is bad for the environment and no good for my engine. I agree with the environmental damage, but is warming-up harmful to my cars engine?

Briefly:

1. Your engine warms up quickest with some load on it, i.e. driving it.
2. An idling engine runs very ineffienctly and pollutes more than a loaded one. In addition, your are not moving while you're idling; causing even more waste.
3. The fuel/air mixture during idling is not the best for maximum engine life; raw gas washes the oil off the cylinder walls.
4. If you warm up the engine first, than take off fast, you are putting incredible strain on the other components of the car that are still cold. Taking off shortly after starting warms up the whole power train and suspension together.

In spite of the (4) points, you need to idle the car long engough to get the engine oil to circulate to the valve gear on top of the engine. In most of the US, with 5W30 oil this takes no more than 20 seconds or so. If you start the car, belt yourself in, check mirrors, you should be ready to take off gently and when the temperature gage is half way to normal, you can blast off.
In all cases, make sure your windows are clear before taking off.

Happy and GREEN motoring!!

OK ....I'll take the other hand view on this one........

1. Yes it is true that it warms up quickest when there is a load on it.......this also poses the highest thermal stress on all components in the engine. Modern engines use a wide variety of materials in the running gear of the engine (Aluminum pistons, forged steel connecting rods, forged nodular iron cranckshafts, brass or bronze valve guides, sometimes aluminum heads....etc, etc.....). Each of these materials "grows" at a different rate when heated (refer to your basic Pysics 101 on thermal expansion) and while these engines are designed to accomodate the differential growth of the parts as they are heated up to operating temperatures, if you put excess load too soon on the engine while the parts are not in their "operational" temperature you can put excessive wear on the parts as the clearances can be smaller and cause contact or they can be larger and be "sloppy" in there clearances.

2. Yes a "Cold" engine is not as efficent as one that is warmed up (due primarily to clearances and Cold air intake)

3. Most modern engines are electronicly fuel injected.....fuel air ratios are very accuratly temperature compensated and are very similar to warmed up engines....not so with carburated engines, Carburated engines generally rely on a bimetalic strip on the butterfly valve....as the strip heats up it opens up the butterfly valve to allow more air into the engine (automatic choke)......An engine in a "choked" valve position runs very inefficently (fuel rich)...BUT it will start more reliably and is less prone to flooding.

4. Partially true.......in either case; not warming up or warming up first...if you take off fast you are putting a lot of stress on the rest of the running gear (driveline, differential, Front wheel bearings and or differential, .......these components are all warmed up by friction derived by the motion of the vehicle....as such the vehicle needs to be moving to get them warmed up and it doesn't matter if you warm it up the engine or not.....driving it hard while cold will have the same effect on these components......). NOW....the second most important part of your drive train is your Transmission....most modern transmissions (both automatic as well as manual) have a transmission oil cooler....while the primary job of the cooler is to Cool the oil, while the engine is warming up the transmission oil cooler is actualy warming up Due to its position behind the radiator......the longer you warm up the engine the longer you warm up the tranny as well..........


Ok ....getting off my soap box now........

Easy there big fellow....

I'm only sharinf what Click and Clack said. If it was reported on NPR, it must be true Maybe call 1-800- CAR- TALK and voice your concerns. Until then, do what ever floats your boat

LIPH wrote:Many people refer to their cars as "she". I'm the hot old guy. All I have to do is walk by and that baby heats right up and starts to melt for me.

You're the exception to the rule, Larry.
A car is referred to as "SHE" because a car and a woman are a lot alike.

How many times on a cold morning has a guy needed it and "she" wouldn't turn over?

bravedave wrote:

An idling engine runs very ineffienctly...

An idling engine runs completely inefficiently. There is no work being done!
(Remind you of anybody you know? )

Efficentcy of combustion in this case as opposed to energy efficentcy......If we were truly concerned about energy efficentcy, we be riding horses........