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just checking.

There are a few practical matters to consider when considering gays/lesbians in the military. I'm not being judgmental in any way, shape or form, just imparting information and passing on concerns I've listened to during many hours of debate on this subject within the military.

Using the basic assumptions that gay men are physically attracted to men and l.esbian women are physically attracted to women, here goes:

In a shore duty or non-deployed environment where living quarters do not have to be shared - people go home at night to their own homes and bedrooms - in my opinion there is no reason whatsoever to bar gays and l.esbians.

There are, however, practical issues in billeting where people have to share quarters. In some environments it's impossible to create separate berthing areas for men and women (e.g. submarines) so women are barred. The same issue would exist with gays and l.esbians. It's not practical aboard ship to set up male, female, gay, l.esbian, etc berthing areas. It seems equally unfair to place people in berthing areas where there are other individuals physically attracted to them. Morale suffers. Again, not being judgmental at all; these are simply real issues that have to be considered when talking about gays/lesbians openly serving. I don't know what the solution is but I'd be all but certain discussions like this are near the heart of the matter when the powers that be discuss gay/lesbians in the military.

It's a POLICY of our GOVERNMENT.

If you do not like it, simply do not join. You have a choice if you want to serve or not. If you go against it you should be held liable.

It goes for the same at work, if you break policy, you will probably be reprimanded and possibly terminated.

Nighthawk wrote:It's a POLICY of our GOVERNMENT.

If you do not like it, simply do not join. You have a choice if you want to serve or not. If you go against it you should be held liable.

It goes for the same at work, if you break policy, you will probably be reprimanded and possibly terminated.

I think the discussion is about changing the policy.

Currently, gays/lesbians do not have the choice to serve in the military without living a lie or hiding who they are.

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

Nighthawk wrote:It's a POLICY of our GOVERNMENT.

If you do not like it, simply do not join. You have a choice if you want to serve or not. If you go against it you should be held liable.

It goes for the same at work, if you break policy, you will probably be reprimanded and possibly terminated.

I think the discussion is about changing the policy.

Currently, gays/lesbians do not have the choice to serve in the military without living a lie or hiding who they are.

I know a person who retired Navy that is gay. He retired in the 70's. A lot of gay men know when to act butch. It's not like it can't and hasn't been done for years. It would be nice to be able to be open. Unfortunately until the American public as a whole becomes more accepting then there's always going to be the need for either silence to continue or separation such as you listed in the other post. To be honest, I think it's more of a male issue than female. I know of more men that are less accepting of homosexuals than women.

ph4ever wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

Nighthawk wrote:It's a POLICY of our GOVERNMENT.

If you do not like it, simply do not join. You have a choice if you want to serve or not. If you go against it you should be held liable.

It goes for the same at work, if you break policy, you will probably be reprimanded and possibly terminated.

I think the discussion is about changing the policy.

Currently, gays/lesbians do not have the choice to serve in the military without living a lie or hiding who they are.

I know a person who retired Navy that is gay. He retired in the 70's. A lot of gay men know when to act butch. It's not like it can't and hasn't been done for years. It would be nice to be able to be open. Unfortunately until the American public as a whole becomes more accepting then there's always going to be the need for either silence to continue or separation such as you listed in the other post. To be honest, I think it's more of a male issue than female. I know of more men that are less accepting of homosexuals than women.

Oh, sure, gays/lesbians have been and are currently serving. Just not openly.

SchoolGirlHeart wrote: Oh, sure, gays/lesbians have been and are currently serving. Just not openly.

The gay people have gaydar and they know who is who. If you are straight and don't know if the person in the next bunk is gay, then you are just not paying attention.

Skibo wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote: Oh, sure, gays/lesbians have been and are currently serving. Just not openly.

The gay people have gaydar and they know who is who. If you are straight and don't know if the person in the next bunk is gay, then you are just not paying attention.

Gaydar is not just a gay person thing. I know of several straights that have it.

Skibo wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote: Oh, sure, gays/lesbians have been and are currently serving. Just not openly.

The gay people have gaydar and they know who is who. If you are straight and don't know if the person in the next bunk is gay, then you are just not paying attention.

Ok, this thread is dead. Ignorance rather than discussion tipped the scales.

christ.

Now available at Sharper Image...

so much for intelligent discussion....

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:so much for intelligent discussion....

Let me guess when.......

What a colossal oversimplification.


Gaydar.

RinglingRingling wrote:

Skibo wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote: Oh, sure, gays/lesbians have been and are currently serving. Just not openly.

The gay people have gaydar and they know who is who. If you are straight and don't know if the person in the next bunk is gay, then you are just not paying attention.

Ok, this thread is dead. Ignorance rather than discussion tipped the scales.

christ.

Perhaps you haven't worked in large groups, but it is pretty easy to tell who is straight and who is gay over time. Your outrage amuses me sometime, especially when I am able to tilt you even when we agree on an issue.

Skibo wrote:Perhaps you haven't worked in large groups, but it is pretty easy to tell who is straight and who is gay over time.

Not always... Having been the target of a witchhunt because someone *thought* I was a l.esbain (why? because my hair was short and I played sports), and having to fight for my career (how exactly does one prove one is straight when 'accused' otherwise) I can tell you that the "gaydar" is often dead wrong, sometimes with tragic results. You know who finally saved my ass (because they wouldn't believe *me*)? One of the l.esbians who was being kicked out of the service (one of the best officers I served with, btw ). She told the investigators to leave me alone; I wasn't one of them.

It's not so easy. Besides, who the f cares?

I wonder why other countries don't have an issue with this.

Skibo wrote:

RinglingRingling wrote:

Skibo wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote: Oh, sure, gays/lesbians have been and are currently serving. Just not openly.

The gay people have gaydar and they know who is who. If you are straight and don't know if the person in the next bunk is gay, then you are just not paying attention.

Ok, this thread is dead. Ignorance rather than discussion tipped the scales.

christ.

Perhaps you haven't worked in large groups, but it is pretty easy to tell who is straight and who is gay over time. Your outrage amuses me sometime, especially when I am able to tilt you even when we agree on an issue.

That was NOT R2's point.........

Skibo wrote:

RinglingRingling wrote:

Skibo wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote: Oh, sure, gays/lesbians have been and are currently serving. Just not openly.

The gay people have gaydar and they know who is who. If you are straight and don't know if the person in the next bunk is gay, then you are just not paying attention.

Ok, this thread is dead. Ignorance rather than discussion tipped the scales.

christ.

Perhaps you haven't worked in large groups, but it is pretty easy to tell who is straight and who is gay over time. Your outrage amuses me sometime, especially when I am able to tilt you even when we agree on an issue.

I do work in large groups, in a city with a large LBGT population, and for a company who was ahead of the curve with their anti-discrimination policies based on preference. And yes, over time it is easy enough to tell who likes girls, who likes boys, and who prefers slathering themselves in catsup and singing the McDonald's jingle.

The statement of ignorance was about the "gay people have gaydar" comment. Phrased as it was, it came across like, "when someone comes out of the closet. they get a complimentary toaster oven, and 'gaydar' activated and tuned for free"

Skibo wrote:

RinglingRingling wrote:

Skibo wrote:

SchoolGirlHeart wrote: Oh, sure, gays/lesbians have been and are currently serving. Just not openly.

The gay people have gaydar and they know who is who. If you are straight and don't know if the person in the next bunk is gay, then you are just not paying attention.

Ok, this thread is dead. Ignorance rather than discussion tipped the scales.

christ.

Perhaps you haven't worked in large groups, but it is pretty easy to tell who is straight and who is gay over time. Your outrage amuses me sometime, especially when I am able to tilt you even when we agree on an issue.

This is the most stupid group of statements I've ever seen you make. It's as stupid as the assumption that a gay man would be able to give you good decorating advice. It's profiling pure and simple.

lime rickie wrote:I wonder why other countries don't have an issue with this.

Because in some countries you can't come out of the closet without being killed?
Because some countries are more tolerant towards "alternative" lifestyles?
Or could it be that perhaps the American people don't really pay attention to what goes on in other countries?