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ph4ever wrote:

lime rickie wrote:I wonder why other countries don't have an issue with this.

Because in some countries you can't come out of the closet without being killed?
Because some countries are more tolerant towards "alternative" lifestyles?
Or could it be that perhaps the American people don't really pay attention to what goes on in other countries?

True on all counts, Connie, honey.

SARCASM ALERT!!!

Funny how a woman from Canada can cause such an uproar about gay men in the U.S. Military!!!???

Indiana Jolly Mon wrote:SARCASM ALERT!!!

Funny how a woman from Canada can cause such an uproar about gay people in the U.S. Military!!!???

fixed it for ya

Been following this for a couple of days now. Thought I would chime in with my two cents.

I spent 6 years in the Navy. More then half of that time aboard ship. I was in the Navy before they started placing women onboard war ships. They had been serving on support vessels for a while.

Having said that my thoughts on Gay's in the Military are this.
There is no reason in the world to discriminate against anyone who want's to serve their country. They aren't in the service to find love they are there for the same reason we all were. To protect this nation and all it stands for.
I served with several Gay's on board the ship I was on. One of which I hadn't known or suspected was gay until over 10 freaking years after I left the Navy. Those I served with were outstanding human beings and were damn good at their jobs. They never (to my knowledge) accosted another shipmate in any way shape or form. To believe they would do so just on the basis of their preference is utterly stupid to say the least.

There were other sailors that I wouldn't give you two freaking cents for and wouldn't trust to watch my back in a bar fight let alone a shooting war. I never had a doubt about my friends who were gay.

BOTTOM LINE
If I am in a shooting war I want the best damn people in the world doing their best to make sure we win.

That's all I have to say about that.

Excellent points, Don.

pair8head wrote:BOTTOM LINE
If I am in a shooting war I want the best damn people in the world doing their best to make sure we win.

That's all I have to say about that.

AMEN!

ph4ever wrote:

Indiana Jolly Mon wrote:SARCASM ALERT!!!

Funny how a woman from Canada can cause such an uproar about gay people in the U.S. Military!!!???

fixed it for ya

And maybe he meant irony.

pair8head wrote:Been following this for a couple of days now. Thought I would chime in with my two cents.

I spent 6 years in the Navy. More then half of that time aboard ship. I was in the Navy before they started placing women onboard war ships. They had been serving on support vessels for a while.

Having said that my thoughts on Gay's in the Military are this.
There is no reason in the world to discriminate against anyone who want's to serve their country. They aren't in the service to find love they are there for the same reason we all were. To protect this nation and all it stands for.
I served with several Gay's on board the ship I was on. One of which I hadn't known or suspected was gay until over 10 freaking years after I left the Navy. Those I served with were outstanding human beings and were damn good at their jobs. They never (to my knowledge) accosted another shipmate in any way shape or form. To believe they would do so just on the basis of their preference is utterly stupid to say the least.

There were other sailors that I wouldn't give you two freaking cents for and wouldn't trust to watch my back in a bar fight let alone a shooting war. I never had a doubt about my friends who were gay.

BOTTOM LINE
If I am in a shooting war I want the best damn people in the world doing their best to make sure we win.

That's all I have to say about that.

I echo this sentiment fully. We do our jobs like everyone else.

RinglingRingling wrote: The statement of ignorance was about the "gay people have gaydar" comment. Phrased as it was, it came across like, "when someone comes out of the closet. they get a complimentary toaster oven, and 'gaydar' activated and tuned for free"

They don't get it as a gift, it is a sense they are born with. /cue more outrage.

I'm sorry I only know two people that served in the military that were gay, one just retired after over 20 years of service in the Navy. She was dating an officer and now lives with that person. She never violated the DADT policy so she was able to retire on her terms. The other joined the army out of HS, received language training and served a tour in Afghanistan, she always carried a picture of her "friend". The people she worked with knew of her preferences, not because she discussed them and put a rainbow bumpersticker on her humvee, but because her personal effects and activities indicated that she wasn't into dudes.

In the regular workplace, personal activities get discussed, weekend activities vacations...whatever. As you get to know the people you work with you come to know a lot about them. You might even end up at a gay bar with them. (I have) or you might even end up saving their job because a hateful CFO hired you to replace them. Sometimes you find out because you share the same music interests and David Bowie fantasies...but I digress, I will stand by my point if you take an interest in the people you work with, over time you will know if they are gay or not, you won't have to waterboard them to find out, the subtle hints will expose them.

tikitatas wrote:

ph4ever wrote:

Indiana Jolly Mon wrote:SARCASM ALERT!!!

Funny how a woman from Canada can cause such an uproar about gay people in the U.S. Military!!!???

fixed it for ya

And maybe he meant irony.

No, I meant men not people and I meant sarcasm not irony.

Indiana Jolly Mon wrote:

tikitatas wrote:

ph4ever wrote:

Indiana Jolly Mon wrote:SARCASM ALERT!!!

Funny how a woman from Canada can cause such an uproar about gay people in the U.S. Military!!!???

fixed it for ya

And maybe he meant irony.

No, I meant men not people and I meant sarcasm not irony.

Only men? I started this thread after reading about Dan Choi, but the article referenced gay and lesbians in the military.
As for causing an uproar, why should this be an issue like any other that gets mentioned here. I wanted information, because I genuinely did not know about the history of this policy.

Skibo wrote:

RinglingRingling wrote: The statement of ignorance was about the "gay people have gaydar" comment. Phrased as it was, it came across like, "when someone comes out of the closet. they get a complimentary toaster oven, and 'gaydar' activated and tuned for free"

They don't get it as a gift, it is a sense they are born with. /cue more outrage.

I'm sorry I only know two people that served in the military that were gay, one just retired after over 20 years of service in the Navy. She was dating an officer and now lives with that person. She never violated the DADT policy so she was able to retire on her terms. The other joined the army out of HS, received language training and served a tour in Afghanistan, she always carried a picture of her "friend". The people she worked with knew of her preferences, not because she discussed them and put a rainbow bumpersticker on her humvee, but because her personal effects and activities indicated that she wasn't into dudes.

In the regular workplace, personal activities get discussed, weekend activities vacations...whatever. As you get to know the people you work with you come to know a lot about them. You might even end up at a gay bar with them. (I have) or you might even end up saving their job because a hateful CFO hired you to replace them. Sometimes you find out because you share the same music interests and David Bowie fantasies...but I digress, I will stand by my point if you take an interest in the people you work with, over time you will know if they are gay or not, you won't have to waterboard them to find out, the subtle hints will expose them.

You're family aren't you? You're just trying to act like a ignorant judgmental straight person?

Indiana Jolly Mon wrote:

tikitatas wrote:

ph4ever wrote:

Indiana Jolly Mon wrote:SARCASM ALERT!!!

Funny how a woman from Canada can cause such an uproar about gay people in the U.S. Military!!!???

fixed it for ya

And maybe he meant irony.

No, I meant men not people and I meant sarcasm not irony.

Women don't serve in the military? Gay women don't serve?

Tikitatas and PH4ever I agree with you how things SHOULD be, my posts are based in the way things are in reality. Yes women, straight and gay, serve same as men in military. But volunteer some time in a JAG office or a recruiting station. As in all of society there are many young men that enlist are bright, guided people that want to serve their country. There are many that are violent, closed minded people that see this as an only option. Unfortunately I have first hand experience with many of the latter. I just dont believe that anyone (tikitatas included) understand the mindset of some of these guys. The amount of offensive gay jokes, the calling each other slang gay names, and I have personally dealt with three cases of beatings because of a guy "looked gay at me".
As much of this policy is set as a restriction, unfortunately it is also sometimes for protection. And also unforunately disdain for different lifestyles is not strictly a "stupid - American" phenomenon. It is all over the world.
Blast away, but that doesnt make reality any less real. Although most of us wish it was.

Indiana Jolly Mon wrote:Tikitatas and PH4ever I agree with you how things SHOULD be, my posts are based in the way things are in reality. Yes women, straight and gay, serve same as men in military. But volunteer some time in a JAG office or a recruiting station. As in all of society there are many young men that enlist are bright, guided people that want to serve their country. There are many that are violent, closed minded people that see this as an only option. Unfortunately I have first hand experience with many of the latter. I just dont believe that anyone (tikitatas included) understand the mindset of some of these guys. The amount of offensive gay jokes, the calling each other slang gay names, and I have personally dealt with three cases of beatings because of a guy "looked gay at me".
As much of this policy is set as a restriction, unfortunately it is also sometimes for protection. And also unforunately disdain for different lifestyles is not strictly a "stupid - American" phenomenon. It is all over the world.
Blast away, but that doesnt make reality any less real. Although most of us wish it was.

I assure you that this is not solely the military's bailiwick . . . I taught in public high schools for 32 years . . . nor is violence purely the province of homophobes.

tikitatas wrote:

Indiana Jolly Mon wrote:Tikitatas and PH4ever I agree with you how things SHOULD be, my posts are based in the way things are in reality. Yes women, straight and gay, serve same as men in military. But volunteer some time in a JAG office or a recruiting station. As in all of society there are many young men that enlist are bright, guided people that want to serve their country. There are many that are violent, closed minded people that see this as an only option. Unfortunately I have first hand experience with many of the latter. I just dont believe that anyone (tikitatas included) understand the mindset of some of these guys. The amount of offensive gay jokes, the calling each other slang gay names, and I have personally dealt with three cases of beatings because of a guy "looked gay at me".
As much of this policy is set as a restriction, unfortunately it is also sometimes for protection. And also unforunately disdain for different lifestyles is not strictly a "stupid - American" phenomenon. It is all over the world.
Blast away, but that doesnt make reality any less real. Although most of us wish it was.

I assure you that this is not solely the military's bailiwick . . . I taught in public high schools for 32 years . . . nor is violence purely the province of homophobes.

hell I was raised in the rural south

just to clarify one thing: my remark about the "complimentary toaster oven" was a reference to the "Ellen Degeneres Show" episode when she came out. Laura Dern had the line about the toaster oven.

as for the remark about "gaydar being something you are born with if you are gay", I am sorry... that still comes across as an ignorant statement.

I've had people say that I look gay, whatever that is.
At work some of the guys call me Lt. Jim Dangle (from Reno 911) because of my sunglasses and I roll my sleeves up the show the guns.
A female coworker says I'm what you'd call metrosexual....Who knew? I had to google it.
My circle of friends joke about gay and racial issues often.
One of my coworkers is a gay mexican dude known as Taco and we can't get through a day without joking with each other(ie "while you're down there" and what not).
My wife's cousin is gay in the army and got a purple heart in Iraq a couple of years back.
I'm not sure if he's out to them but I was pretty sure from from the moment I met him....but if the people that serve with him do know, I'm willing to bet they don't give two flying monkey craps.

pair8head wrote:BOTTOM LINE
If I am in a shooting war I want the best damn people in the world doing their best to make sure we win.

Great minds think alike.

Betty Botter bought a bit of butter. "But," she said, "this butter's bitter!
If I put it in my batter, it will make my batter bitter!"
So she bought a bit of butter better than her bitter butter,
And she put it in her batter, and her batter was not bitter.
So 'twas better Betty Botter bought a bit of better butter.