Palin is stepping down.

[Wino you know]

Now allow me to translate everything you said the way I see it. Just for shits and giggles.

I'm talking of things like carbon output restrictions so that people, especially poor people, can breathe, the stimulus package that is providing money to renew our crumbling infrastructure and provide jobs and allow many people to keep the jobs they have, to allow people have lost their jobs to have a little more time to find a new one, to help businesses like GM and Chrysler stay afloat and revamp their companies to bring them into the new millennium and to keep thousands of Americans at work, to help banks stay afloat and many Americans in their homes, the opening up relations to foreign leaders that have been closed off for 8 or more years in order to make our nation and the world a safer place without compromising our ideals as Americans.

I'm talking about things like making affordable health care available to all people because access health care is a right not a privilege.

Making cars more fuel efficient to A) make us less dependent on foreign oil and B) make our air a little better to breathe.

ALL of these things will help working Americans and allow many people to keep their jobs or get new ones.

I always find it funny that spending billions of dollars to blow up brown people is fine and dandy, but if you try and help a poor person in American you are automatically a socialist and anti-American. I also find it funny that most of the Conservative commentators on this board and other places remain oddly silent at Glenn Beck's comment that what this country needs is another attack from Al Qaeda.

Garry you and I see things differently, obviously, but I respect you and your opinion, but remember that we're all in this thing together and we are going to have to learn how to compromise and discuss things openly and honestly if we are going to get out of this mess.

Okay, so we DIS-agree on several topics, and I'll admit you DO bring up some good points on ALL of those topics, EXCEPT for forcing Americans (or anyone anywhere) to drive a friggin' Lawn Mower with doors.
Sorry, but on that point, I stand by my statement.
If someone WANTS to drive an S.U.V., and they can afford it, LET THEM DRIVE THE DARN THING! (By the same token, if they want to drive one of those dumb looking smart cars, let them-it's America, and it's a CHOICE).
I don't buy into the foreign oil argument either. Especially when there's SO MUCH of it here. Or at least enough to keep us going for the next 50 years AT LEAST. More than enough time to come up with other ways. That time WILL pass, and we NEED to use our available resources. (Yes we do). The oil companies are making (in the eyes of some) "obscene" profits?
GOOD!
That means they can explore for and drill for OIL!
I'm an AMERICAN and I don't want to drive a golf cart to and from work. Or anything else that runs on elephant crap.

The C.A.P. & Trade will increas they average Midwest enery bill by 200%.
I make a decent living, but nowhere near THAT decent.

As for health care-yeah, I do wonder sometimes why a person who stays at a hospital for four days has to come up with $10,000.00.
But I also like the fact that I, as a working American, can go see MY doctor whenever I want to.
If someone else feels their health insurance, or doctor visit, is too expensive, why should I be obligated to pay for it just because I was motivated enough to get myself into a marketable profession to be able to take care of MYSELF?
Sorry, but I also disagree that "we're all in this together." Although I have a VERY modest lot in life, and live in a VERY modest house, I did it MYSELF without help from ANYONE.
Yeah, I wish I could live in a nine room mansion with six bathrooms, a swimming pool, and a gardner.
The fact that I don't IN NO WAY means I was not given a fair shake.
I ask ANYONE who sees someone living in a house they wish they lived in or who drives a car they wish they had, to simply ask them what they had to do to get that.
I think the answers they get will ASTOUND them. I guarantee none will say they had the GOVERNMENT provide it for them. (Unless it's the President or Vice President, who will only live at their residence for eight years at most, and not cost them anything).

The auto companies?
Sorry, but AGAIN I say, if they're too big to fail, they're TOO BIG.
So Obama (or whoever is in power) takes over the auto companies. Guess what?
There are dealerships all over the country closing down. Can you tell me why?
And it's sure to have a "trickle up"/domino effect.

Yes, we should TRY to get along with other nations of the world.
But when you have a bunch of "non white" (your term, not mine) people that want to blow us up no matter what, I say NO, I DON'T want to "talk" to them.
I want to KILL their sorry a$$es.
I shouldn't have to worry if some nut job is going to try to bump me off while I'm at home grilling my dogs a porterhouse steak or watching TV, and I shouldn't have to worry if some nut job is going to bump me off on my way to work. I have too many nut jobs I have to deal with AT work that have the same goal in mind.

Yes, there are people I want to hurt, okay?
But they're not all NON-white.
Ever hear of Minnesota?

America (a nation founded by European males who ate meat, smoked tobacco, and were tired of over-taxation) was a great country for over 230 years, LEAVE IT ALONE!

[UAHparrothead]

America (a nation founded by European males who ate meat, smoked tobacco, and were tired of over-taxation) was a great country for over 230 years, LEAVE IT ALONE!

I am sure, having met you and drank a beer with you, that you don't mean that they way it comes off. But you've got to realize how that sounds.

Second, nobody is telling anyone they CAN'T drive a Escalade or a Hummer H1 for that matter. They do want those Escalades and H1s to get better mileage. I don't see anything wrong with that. You can't tell me that they can't make an engine that gets just as much horsepower and use a lot less fuel. I don't know I am not a engineer, just a preacher and I guess that makes me look at things differently. 5 or 6 years ago I probably would have agreed with most of what you're saying, but I guess I have changed. For the better or for the worse, I don't know, I guess time will tell.

[Wino you know]

I am sure, having met you and drank a beer with you, that you don't mean that they way it comes off. But you've got to realize how that sounds.

Yep, I had a beer(s) with you and enjoyed every second of it.
NO, that statement SHOULD'VE read European CHRISTIAN males-they're the group who seems to be the target of everything these days just because it's fashionable.
I inadvertantly left out the word CHRISTIAN.
This country was founded by European CHRISTAIN males. Strike one, strike two, strike three. (And I'm not much of a fan of the Europeans these days either).

Second, nobody is telling anyone they CAN'T drive a Escalade or a Hummer H1 for that matter. They do want those Escalades and H1s to get better mileage. I don't see anything wrong with that. You can't tell me that they can't make an engine that gets just as much horsepower and use a lot less fuel. I don't know I am not a engineer, just a preacher and I guess that makes me look at things differently. 5 or 6 years ago I probably would have agreed with most of what you're saying, but I guess I have changed. For the better or for the worse, I don't know, I guess time will tell.

Yes, there ARE engines in many cars on the road today that, supposedly gets better gas mileage.
They're called the "FLEX Engines", and run on 85% ethyanol (sp)?, rather than the standard 10% found nearly everywhere else.
Those vehicles are especially popular here in the Midwest, where there are lots of farming communities. (Ethyanol is a corn oil based formula).
The vehicle I drive at work (A Chevy Tahoe) has one of those type engines, but that type of gasoline is only available at a very limited number of gas stations here (so far), and the closest one to where I work is about 14 miles away-I'd use more gas getting there and back to make it worth my while. But I HAVE put that type of gas in it, and you feel no difference in preformance whatsoever.
The problem I have with it is it gets used much faster, thereby promting more trips to the pump, and, whereas you THINK you're saving money when you pay $1.85 per gallon for that type of fuel, as opposed to the $2.59 for regular gas, in reality, you're actually not saving.
Be it as it may, I'm still for people driving whatever they want.
If they wish to drive a smaller vehicle that gets more M.P.G., then, by all means, let them.
But let it be THEIR choice, not government mandated.

[Skibo]

I'm talking of things like carbon output restrictions so that people, especially poor people, can breathe

That carbon output is a sign of prosperity. Besides birds don't fall out of the sky from breathing carbon output. I don't know where you grew up or when but in the 60's and 70's, Pittsburgh grey was the color of our sky on a clear day. That grey stuff wasn't CO2 either. Oddly enough people were working hard generating wealth. Look around the world today were is the most pollution? Hmmmm...it seems it is where all the manufacturing work has been farmed out to. China (probably a model country in your opinion) has some of the worst mining safety records and toxic emissions records in the world and not that cancer causing CO2, its the real bad stuff like mercury, and other industrial wastes that turn rivers red and kill fish instantly.

So the poor people can breathe, how are they going to pay to heat their homes with this new tax? or get to work with fuel prices doubling or tripling. BTW any manufacturing that hasn't already left the US will probably consider relocating to avoid the added expense of this policy. That will only give us more poor people and further stress the relief systems.

[lati2d]

To bring this back to Palin quitting her job.
I think David letterman last night had a great line: " We know Obama's in Russia cause Sara Palin can see him from her house."
If you can't stand the heat - get out of the kitchen.
I think Mrs. Palin left the house.

[UAHparrothead]

I'm talking of things like carbon output restrictions so that people, especially poor people, can breathe

That carbon output is a sign of prosperity. Besides birds don't fall out of the sky from breathing carbon output. I don't know where you grew up or when but in the 60's and 70's, Pittsburgh grey was the color of our sky on a clear day. That grey stuff wasn't CO2 either. Oddly enough people were working hard generating wealth. Look around the world today were is the most pollution? Hmmmm...it seems it is where all the manufacturing work has been farmed out to. China (probably a model country in your opinion) has some of the worst mining safety records and toxic emissions records in the world and not that cancer causing CO2, its the real bad stuff like mercury, and other industrial wastes that turn rivers red and kill fish instantly.

So the poor people can breathe, how are they going to pay to heat their homes with this new tax? or get to work with fuel prices doubling or tripling. BTW any manufacturing that hasn't already left the US will probably consider relocating to avoid the added expense of this policy. That will only give us more poor people and further stress the relief systems.

What do you suggest? How do we solve the problem? You call me a communist and b**** and moan, but offer no solution to the problem. That is the Conservative mantra for the last 20 years. b**** and moan about what the other guy is doing but offer no real solution of their own. It is a fact that kids in poorer areas have a higher level of asthma and spend more days in the hospital because of it. It is a fact that I know more people with cancer right now that I ever have before. But hell it ain't your kid is it? So who cares, right? Yeah, China is the big problem, but I don't live in China, so maybe I'll start where I am. BTW the Congressional Budget Office estimates that the cost of the Cap and Trade program would equal to about 40-50 cents a day. I don't mind paying that for cleaner air.

[TropicalTroubador]

America (a nation founded by European males who ate meat, smoked tobacco, and were tired of over-taxation) was a great country for over 230 years, LEAVE IT ALONE!

I am sure, having met you and drank a beer with you, that you don't mean that they way it comes off. But you've got to realize how that sounds.

Second, nobody is telling anyone they CAN'T drive a Escalade or a Hummer H1 for that matter. They do want those Escalades and H1s to get better mileage.

Actually, I've got a slightly different take on it.

If you want to drive a FAV (that's "Fat A**ed Vehicle"), go right ahead. But I want you to pay what it *actually costs* to take care of it, including your share of the health costs of the people your exhaust is making sick, your share of replacing the bridges and other infrastructure that the acid in your exhaust is helping rot away, and the true, unsubsidized cost of the gasoline to run it, including the costs to run wars in the Middle East to ensure our supply. I've seen estimates in the neighborhood of $8-10/gallon for gas to cover those various items, IIRC.

You say you got your house "by yourself?" If you get a mortgage deduction, like I do, that's getting balanced by someone else paying taxes on something else to keep the government running. Money is being taken from some guy somewhere else so that you can have a tax break. I believe that the right-wing is calling that "socialism" these days. Except when they benefit from it.

If you looked closely at where the money comes from, where the money goes, and what the actual, hidden costs are of the stuff you do and use, your definitions might change a bit.

[Spider Johnson]

I'm talking of things like carbon output restrictions so that people, especially poor people, can breathe

That carbon output is a sign of prosperity. Besides birds don't fall out of the sky from breathing carbon output. I don't know where you grew up or when but in the 60's and 70's, Pittsburgh grey was the color of our sky on a clear day. That grey stuff wasn't CO2 either. Oddly enough people were working hard generating wealth. Look around the world today were is the most pollution? Hmmmm...it seems it is where all the manufacturing work has been farmed out to. China (probably a model country in your opinion) has some of the worst mining safety records and toxic emissions records in the world and not that cancer causing CO2, its the real bad stuff like mercury, and other industrial wastes that turn rivers red and kill fish instantly.

So the poor people can breathe, how are they going to pay to heat their homes with this new tax? or get to work with fuel prices doubling or tripling. BTW any manufacturing that hasn't already left the US will probably consider relocating to avoid the added expense of this policy. That will only give us more poor people and further stress the relief systems.

A hand out is not a hand up. A hand up helps people help themselves.
Goverment only does one thing well....creating beauracracy. Thus increasing taxes. Seldom the Goverment might get something done correctly, by accident or so it seems.

Pelosi refused to allow the full reading of the Cap and Trade Bill. Who knows what is actually in it?

I wonder how this tax and trade is going to effect churches? Less heat and airconditioning? Will less people be going because they can't afford the extra gas? Will more people be walking to their church? Will people be giving less because they have less money? Etc. Etc.Etc.

As for Healthcare, even Obama said he is going to have to pay for it.
Healthcare is not a guranteed Right anywhere in the Constitution that I am familiar with. That doesn't include such care for illegal aliens either does it?

Keep your goverment healthcare/socialized medicine. Care to talk about waiting lists under such programs? Who decides what are necessary procedures and what are elective?. Especially when you are the one in need. It won't be FREE healthcare and that is for sure! The quality of healthcare will definitely drop in most places.
Take a good long hard look at VA hospitals and the free health care Veterans EARNED. See what a lot of them are getting.

[ph4ever]

I'm talking of things like carbon output restrictions so that people, especially poor people, can breathe

That carbon output is a sign of prosperity. Besides birds don't fall out of the sky from breathing carbon output. I don't know where you grew up or when but in the 60's and 70's, Pittsburgh grey was the color of our sky on a clear day. That grey stuff wasn't CO2 either. Oddly enough people were working hard generating wealth. Look around the world today were is the most pollution? Hmmmm...it seems it is where all the manufacturing work has been farmed out to. China (probably a model country in your opinion) has some of the worst mining safety records and toxic emissions records in the world and not that cancer causing CO2, its the real bad stuff like mercury, and other industrial wastes that turn rivers red and kill fish instantly.

So the poor people can breathe, how are they going to pay to heat their homes with this new tax? or get to work with fuel prices doubling or tripling. BTW any manufacturing that hasn't already left the US will probably consider relocating to avoid the added expense of this policy. That will only give us more poor people and further stress the relief systems.

A hand out is not a hand up. A hand up helps people help themselves.
Goverment only does one thing well....creating beauracracy. Thus increasing taxes. Seldom the Goverment might get something done correctly, by accident or so it seems.

Pelosi refused to allow the full reading of the Cap and Trade Bill. Who knows what is actually in it?

I wonder how this tax and trade is going to effect churches? Less heat and airconditioning? Will less people be going because they can't afford the extra gas? Will more people be walking to their church? Will people be giving less because they have less money? Etc. Etc.Etc.

As for Healthcare, even Obama said he is going to have to pay for it.
Healthcare is not a guranteed Right anywhere in the Constitution that I am familiar with. That doesn't include such care for illegal aliens either does it?

Keep your goverment healthcare/socialized medicine. Care to talk about waiting lists under such programs? Who decides what are necessary procedures and what are elective?. Especially when you are the one in need. It won't be FREE healthcare and that is for sure! The quality of healthcare will definitely drop in most places.
Take a good long hard look at VA hospitals and the free health care Veterans EARNED. See what a lot of them are getting.

Here's the Cap and Trade bill http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtex ... =h111-2454. To think you're a freaking "research editior" and can't find a bill's text.

[UAHparrothead]

I wonder how this tax and trade is going to effect churches? Less heat and airconditioning? Will less people be going because they can't afford the extra gas? Will more people be walking to their church? Will people be giving less because they have less money? Etc. Etc.Etc.

I guess that would depend on the person. Those who view going to church with the same reverence as going to the mall might decide reduce their attendance. However, if we look at the reality of it a nominal increase probably won't affect persons attendance or donation all that much. My two churches have remained faithful in attendance and offerings during this economic crisis. We will see one another through any crisis because we are a community and a family. We also realize that we are only stewards of God's creation and we must do a better job of caring for it. But thanks for asking.

[Skibo]

What do you suggest? How do we solve the problem? You call me a communist and b**** and moan, but offer no solution to the problem. That is the Conservative mantra for the last 20 years. b**** and moan about what the other guy is doing but offer no real solution of their own. It is a fact that kids in poorer areas have a higher level of asthma and spend more days in the hospital because of it. It is a fact that I know more people with cancer right now that I ever have before. But hell it ain't your kid is it? So who cares, right? Yeah, China is the big problem, but I don't live in China, so maybe I'll start where I am. BTW the Congressional Budget Office estimates that the cost of the Cap and Trade program would equal to about 40-50 cents a day. I don't mind paying that for cleaner air.

I've been offering solutions for year. The US needs to get back to manufacturing. The class of people that are not capable or do not desire to have technology jobs have been ignored. Incentives need to be given to companies to bring manufacturing back to the US. PA already has Keystone opportunity zones in industrial wastelands, that has helped a little. More needs to be done. Instead of creating social welfare programs, give tax incentives to companies that create jobs. Another thing that might help, national security, we have thousands of containers that cross our borders daily that go inspected. Tack a $1000 customs fee on each container and get them inspected. There would be additional jobs for the additional inspectors. We need to get back to utilizing our own natural resources, we have untapped oil reserves and enough natural gas to power our country for over 100 years. People need to get back on the buy american bandwagon. It isn't easy but I do a lot of research before making any purchase over $50. Even my dogs have US made toys and treats. (I'm not going to let the Chinese poison my pets)

Funny how the liberals claim the CBO numbers are useless when calculating the cost of healthcare but is willing to rely on the numbers for C&T. Really, the air is cleaner now than it ever has been since the industrial revolution. Why wasn't asthma a problem when I could see the air I was breathing. Could it be because kids were outside running and playing building up immunity and some endurance then and not sitting in front of the tv playing video games? CO2 doesn't cause asthma.

[UAHparrothead]

I agree that we need to focus more on manufacturing, but it needs to be sustainable manufacturing. We cannot keep using natural resources at these rates. Another big problem is that we are consuming at an astronomical rate and most of the stuff, as you point out is made in China and it is at best crappy and at worst poisonous. The air that you breathe may be better, but in more impoverished areas the pollution CO2 or not is causing asthma and other respiratory problems as well as other diseases. These diseases caused by pollution disproportionally affect poorer people not only in America, but around the world. The poorest 2/3 are being affected by the richest 1/3 (that does include the US and China). I am all for making a good living, but not at such a cost for other people. As far as tax incentives, we have been offering tax incentives for corporations for years and yet here we are in this mess. the problem is that those corporations are not using the tax incentives to create jobs, but to perpetuate their own wealth. We have been trying trickle down economics for almost 30 years to little or no effect.

[UAHparrothead]

BTW this is my last statement on this thread.

[Elrod]

and of course, there is always the diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder to be debated in this.

You really should start a separate thread to discuss Obama.

[Wino you know]

BTW this is my last statement on this thread.

I hope that's not true.
As I said, you DO offer good food for thought, and I do like reading your thoughts, but I just can't buy into most of them.
First & foremost, being the environmental stuff.
I simply fail to see how me driving a Jeep Grand Cherokee is making it harder for people to breathe.

[sonofabeach]

I like my suvs. Oxygen is overrated anyway

[ph4ever]

and of course, there is always the diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder to be debated in this.

You really should start a separate thread to discuss Obama.

Obama - hell I thought he was talking about some of the BN'ers.

[UAHparrothead]

BTW this is my last statement on this thread.

I hope that's not true.
As I said, you DO offer good food for thought, and I do like reading your thoughts, but I just can't buy into most of them.
First & foremost, being the environmental stuff.
I simply fail to see how me driving a Jeep Grand Cherokee is making it harder for people to breathe.

But it's not just you driving your Jeep or me driving my Jeep, it is a combination of all of us driving all of our vehicles plus coal power plants plus all the other factories. None of us live in a vacuum and our actions affect other people. I am not perfect, but I try to offset some of my driving pollution by recycling, it takes much less energy to recycle an aluminum can that it does to make a new one out of fresh aluminum, by using CFL bulbs, and by watching how I use energy. It doesn't take much more effort to do some little things and if we all did those little things it would add up to a big change. I was watching a show with Ted Nugent the other day and he had a really good idea and that was to simply put more back into the earth than you take out. It seems simple enough, but everyone has to do it in order to make a real difference.

[Elrod]

and of course, there is always the diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder to be debated in this.

You really should start a separate thread to discuss Obama.

Obama - hell I thought he was talking about some of the BN'ers.

My bad.

[Wino you know]

But it's not just you driving your Jeep or me driving my Jeep, it is a combination of all of us driving all of our vehicles plus coal power plants plus all the other factories. None of us live in a vacuum and our actions affect other people. I am not perfect, but I try to offset some of my driving pollution by recycling, it takes much less energy to recycle an aluminum can that it does to make a new one out of fresh aluminum, by using CFL bulbs, and by watching how I use energy. It doesn't take much more effort to do some little things and if we all did those little things it would add up to a big change. I was watching a show with Ted Nugent the other day and he had a really good idea and that was to simply put more back into the earth than you take out. It seems simple enough, but everyone has to do it in order to make a real difference.

I do recycle.
People here are dumb if they don't anyway. Beer, soda, liquor, and even bottled water all have a 5 cent surcharge at the time of purchase.
When you bring them back, the grocery stores here have a recycling bin when you toss your empty cans & bottles for a 5cent refund.
If you return 20 empties, that's $1.00 which you'd either get in cash or $1.00 off your grocery purchase. (I usually choose the latter).
I've also cut down on my energy use. Whenever I get to work for my 6 PM shift, there are empty offices all over the placewith the lights on. I'll walk in there and turn them off, and, at home, I leave my A/C turned down to 72 in the summer time, and the furnace is kept as low as 75 degrees in the winter.
But I won't buy into the ethynol/gas crap, because it doesn't last as long in the engine, and it hinders the preformance.
But you're right-if we all do little things, in the end it will add up for all of us.
And I can still drive my Jeep Grand Cherokee.