Amish DUI

[big john]

Yes, it does happen. At least in Pennsylvania.

Amish buggy driver charged with DUI
By The Associated Press
December 08, 2009, 8:51AM
Police in Lancaster County say they arrested an Amish man on drunk driving charges over the weekend after he was found asleep in his moving buggy.

East Lampeter Township Police say 22-year-old Elmer Stoltzfoos Fisher of Paradise was slumped over and asleep in a slow-moving buggy on Sunday night.

An off-duty officer from nearby Quarryville reported seeing the horse pulling the buggy at a walking pace as it straddled the center line.

Police say a breathalyzer test snowed Fisher’s blood-alcohol content was 0.18, more than twice the 0.08 legal limit for drivers.

[Bicycle Bill]

Couple of questions:
• Do you need a driver's license to operate a buggy? Do the Amish even obtain a license, or any other kind of state ID?
   I don't think so, so what are they going to assess points against? What can they revoke as punishment?
• How does the law read? In Wisconsin, the statute prohibits operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated —
   which means you can get busted for driving a car, motorcycle, snowmobile; even a lawn tractor or a motorized La-Z-Boy —
   anything with a motor, but not a bicycle, for example. If it's the same in PA, they could nail him for "...being a hazard to
   himself or others", perhaps, but they would not be able to make a charge of "drunken driving" stick.
I also wonder how the rest of his Amish community will handle this. I don't think this is a basis for shunning, but I'm sure he will face some repercussions there as well.

-"BB"-
   

[pair8head]

Don't know about the Amish part of the country but I personally know a gentleman who got a DUI on his horse.
He used to ride the horse to the Tavern and when he was ready to go home he'd get up on the horse and drop the reins.
The horse knew the way home and would just start walking. A rookie cop in the area busted him one night and tried to impound the horse. The gentleman made his one phone call to his buddy the mayor. Problem solved.

[nutmeg]

I have seen Amish in the local Tavern near our cabin. I'm not sure what the church rules are about drinking.

We have one of the strictest sects of old order amish in our area. No colors on clothing...not even the dark purple or dark blue you see on some girls in other areas. Even the babies are dressed in black with big black bonnets.

If that had happened here, it would have been especially dangerous because they have gotten permission to NOT have the orange slow moving vehicle signs on the back of their carriages.

Whenever we have to go somewhere after dark we both concentrate fully on seeing carriages. It is kinda scary. All they have is some white reflective tape (on the back only) and sometimes a lantern. From the side or the front, you can't see them at all. They are just a darker area in the night. Even after all the years of watching for them, it still isn't easy to pick them out on a moonless night until you get pretty close.

I'm so glad that no one hit that fellow's carriage...I always feel bad for the horses (who never fare well in buggy accidents) as well as the occupants and the people who hit them.

[pair8head]

This subject does remind me of something else though....


What goes clip clop clip clop

bang bang bang

clipclopclipclopclipclop?



An Amish Drive By.

[ph4ever]

This subject does remind me of something else though....


What goes clip clop clip clop

bang bang bang

clipclopclipclopclipclop?



An Amish Drive By.

now that's a better one of your jokes!!

[RinglingRingling]

Don't know about the Amish part of the country but I personally know a gentleman who got a DUI on his horse.
He used to ride the horse to the Tavern and when he was ready to go home he'd get up on the horse and drop the reins.
The horse knew the way home and would just start walking. A rookie cop in the area busted him one night and tried to impound the horse. The gentleman made his one phone call to his buddy the mayor. Problem solved.

was wondering about this too. A car, a motorcycle, etc. has no autopilot with an active sense of self-preservation. One could make a good argument that while the horse was over the centerline, being lit and letting the horse "do the driving" was a better move than pouring himself behind the wheel, firing up a 1.5 ton missile, and rocketing for home like the average drunk driver. Endangering himself, or creating a hazard to others, probably a misdemeanor.. and an opportunity for the PA Legislature to spend time writing legislation next session.

[ragtopW]

Couple of questions:
• Do you need a driver's license to operate a buggy? Do the Amish even obtain a license, or any other kind of state ID?
   I don't think so, so what are they going to assess points against? What can they revoke as punishment?
• How does the law read? In Wisconsin, the statute prohibits operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated —
   which means you can get busted for driving a car, motorcycle, snowmobile; even a lawn tractor or a motorized La-Z-Boy —
   anything with a motor, but not a bicycle, for example. If it's the same in PA, they could nail him for "...being a hazard to
   himself or others", perhaps, but they would not be able to make a charge of "drunken driving" stick.
I also wonder how the rest of his Amish community will handle this. I don't think this is a basis for shunning, but I'm sure he will face some repercussions there as well.

-"BB"-
   

might want to dig deeper.. somewhere in the statutes (my bet is)
that a motor vehicle is deemed a "moving vehicle" bikes,skateboards..ETC..
that is why you are to dismount a bike in the cross walk..
Roller Blades...

no points, but he will still have to do weekend duty and pay for a lawyer and
court fees, fines...

[ragtopW]

Don't know about the Amish part of the country but I personally know a gentleman who got a DUI on his horse.
He used to ride the horse to the Tavern and when he was ready to go home he'd get up on the horse and drop the reins.
The horse knew the way home and would just start walking. A rookie cop in the area busted him one night and tried to impound the horse. The gentleman made his one phone call to his buddy the mayor. Problem solved.

was wondering about this too. A car, a motorcycle, etc. has no autopilot with an active sense of self-preservation. One could make a good argument that while the horse was over the centerline, being lit and letting the horse "do the driving" was a better move than pouring himself behind the wheel, firing up a 1.5 ton missile, and rocketing for home like the average drunk driver. Endangering himself, or creating a hazard to others, probably a misdemeanor.. and an opportunity for the PA Legislature to spend time writing legislation next session.

given that horses in general are smarter than half of the sober drivers..

[big john]

If I get anymore info on this I'll keep you all posted. So far there's no indication
that the driver hit a tree or fire hydrant and no golf club was found nearby.

[SuperTrooper]

Pennsylvania law:

75 Pa.C.S. § 3731, which states, "[a] person shall not drive, operate or be in actual physical control of the movement of any vehicle ... while under the influence of alcohol to a degree which renders the person incapable of safe driving."

Sounds cut and dried to me.

As far as penalties he faces:
Fines to $5,000
Up to 6 months in prison
150 hours community service
A first offense with a BAC of .16 and higher requires a mandatory drug and alcohol assessment and treatment.

[SharkOnLand]

Pennsylvania law:

75 Pa.C.S. § 3731, which states, "[a] person shall not drive, operate or be in actual physical control of the movement of any vehicle ... while under the influence of alcohol to a degree which renders the person incapable of safe driving."

Sounds cut and dried to me.

As far as penalties he faces:
Fines to $5,000
Up to 6 months in prison
150 hours community service
A first offense with a BAC of .16 and higher requires a mandatory drug and alcohol assessment and treatment.

Well, technically, the horse was in control of the vehicle. The guy was sleeping. Maybe not so cut and dried.

[citcat]

If you can get a DUI riding a lawn mower on the side of the road, I would think a horse and buggy would qualify. Shoot, if you are walking, they can get you for DIP.

[RinglingRingling]

If you can get a DUI riding a lawn mower on the side of the road, I would think a horse and buggy would qualify. Shoot, if you are walking, they can get you for DIP.

I can't count the number of times I have been Drunk In Public. That is a statute that really needs more objective criteria.

[citcat]

If you can get a DUI riding a lawn mower on the side of the road, I would think a horse and buggy would qualify. Shoot, if you are walking, they can get you for DIP.

I can't count the number of times I have been Drunk In Public. That is a statute that really needs more objective criteria.

Yeah, if you're standing, you are NOT DIP.

[big john]

Well if he was driving a CAR with that high of a b.a.c. it would be a mandatory 72 hours in the
county jail for a first offense and loss of license for a year. I waiting to see how this plays
out.

[RinglingRingling]

Well if he was driving a CAR with that high of a b.a.c. it would be a mandatory 72 hours in the
county jail for a first offense and loss of license for a year. I waiting to see how this plays
out.

I predict the accused and the accused's attorney arriving in court in dark, simple suits.

[The Lost Manatee]

If you can get a DUI riding a lawn mower on the side of the road, I would think a horse and buggy would qualify. Shoot, if you are walking, they can get you for DIP.

I can't count the number of times I have been Drunk In Public. That is a statute that really needs more objective criteria.

Yeah, if you're standing, you are NOT DIP.

I have a good friend and neighbor who, like I do, walks to our favorite neighborhood watering hole. He's about a block and a half from it and I'm 3. This past Sunday, he was walking home after watching the Raiders victory and was arrested for DIP, even though he only blew a .006, which is below the legal limit for driving. The officer said that he had watched my friend walk out of the bar, slip on some ice and decided that he had to be too drunk to walk in public. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[ragtopW]

If you can get a DUI riding a lawn mower on the side of the road, I would think a horse and buggy would qualify. Shoot, if you are walking, they can get you for DIP.

I can't count the number of times I have been Drunk In Public. That is a statute that really needs more objective criteria.

Yeah, if you're standing, you are NOT DIP.

I have a good friend and neighbor who, like I do, walks to our favorite neighborhood watering hole. He's about a block and a half from it and I'm 3. This past Sunday, he was walking home after watching the Raiders victory and was arrested for DIP, even though he only blew a .006, which is below the legal limit for driving. The officer said that he had watched my friend walk out of the bar, slip on some ice and decided that he had to be too drunk to walk in public. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

In Idaho.. there is no set limit to DIP.. no standard.. if the Officer thinks you are, you are.
I had a nice game of hide and seek last year on my way home.. I am not fast..
but I know the area, and I can find the darkness..
I now call a cab for a ride home.. the bar is on private property
so I wait inside for the cab..

[Bicycle Bill]

Pennsylvania law:

75 Pa.C.S. § 3731, which states, "[a] person shall not drive, operate or be in actual physical control of the movement of any vehicle ... while under the influence of alcohol to a degree which renders the person incapable of safe driving."

Sounds cut and dried to me.

As far as penalties he faces:
Fines to $5,000
Up to 6 months in prison
150 hours community service
A first offense with a BAC of .16 and higher requires a mandatory drug and alcohol assessment and treatment.

Well, technically, the horse was in control of the vehicle. The guy was sleeping. Maybe not so cut and dried.

A horse is not a person, no matter what PeTA and the other animal-rights activists say. Mr. Amish Guy is on the hook like a trout.

-"BB"-