An open letter to Mr. Buffett

[RinglingRingling]

This seems so strange. The New England Clubs have 2 firm dates and no one has addressed tickets with them yet. Do you think this is an isolated case or are other clubs having that experience?

the Boise Club gives us about 3 days for turnaround..

stay loose

I can remember in years past (when I first joined the PHC) that there were a week or two between the contact of the regional coordinator and the actual req. of "we need x". By the time of the two Tampa shows during MOTM, that had dropped to 3-5 days. The management team was supposedly the reason for this. Any way I look at it, it seems as though it's a plan to gradually phase out the club seats for more lucrative return on the gate.

[gingerbreadman]

I can remember in years past (when I first joined the PHC) that there were a week or two between the contact of the regional coordinator and the actual req. of "we need x". By the time of the two Tampa shows during MOTM, that had dropped to 3-5 days. The management team was supposedly the reason for this. Any way I look at it, it seems as though it's a plan to gradually phase out the club seats for more lucrative return on the gate.

Lucrative return at the gate... but who would blame any business-people/person for not trying to make money?

Jimmy does not get all that you paid!

Not a PHC member but it does seem that PHC members always think that they should be entiltled to tickets for whatever reason...

[SchoolGirlHeart]

Not a PHC member but it does seem that PHC members always think that they should be entiltled to tickets for whatever reason...

Not an active PHC member here and don't get club tickets but I do kinda think active members are somewhat entitled... They do a load of good in JB's name and have had a big hand in making him what he is, and there ought to be a few perks for that...

[ScarletB]

Not a PHC member but it does seem that PHC members always think that they should be entiltled to tickets for whatever reason...

Not an active PHC member here and don't get club tickets but I do kinda think active members are somewhat entitled... They do a load of good in JB's name and have had a big hand in making him what he is, and there ought to be a few perks for that...

Club members pay full price for seats no? I thought the only issue is that they are assured a ticket so I don't see how it's more lucrative. From what I understand they turn them back in.
And I agree, the clubs do raise a ton of money in JB's name giving him good press, they don't JUST get together to drink once a month. Wouldn't the problem be solved by giving club members a pre-sale password for their local show with a limit of say 4 tix each? I paid to join Elton Johns fan club and got a pre-sale password for that, James Taylor's was free and I got one for his shows too. How difficult would that be I wonder?

[RinglingRingling]

yeah, "more lucrative". in that one of the benefits of the new Evilba$tard merger is seats priced to max the market will bear for the big-name acts in one way or another. And while club seats are purchased at face value, there are no handling fees on them.

300 more seats, especially if you move them into the grey market and charge more than face... is still a bit more cash.

[pema]

Not a PHC member but it does seem that PHC members always think that they should be entiltled to tickets for whatever reason...

Not an active PHC member here and don't get club tickets but I do kinda think active members are somewhat entitled... They do a load of good in JB's name and have had a big hand in making him what he is, and there ought to be a few perks for that...

Club members pay full price for seats no? I thought the only issue is that they are assured a ticket so I don't see how it's more lucrative. From what I understand they turn them back in.
And I agree, the clubs do raise a ton of money in JB's name giving him good press, they don't JUST get together to drink once a month. Wouldn't the problem be solved by giving club members a pre-sale password for their local show with a limit of say 4 tix each? I paid to join Elton Johns fan club and got a pre-sale password for that, James Taylor's was free and I got one for his shows too. How difficult would that be I wonder?

If you buy club tickets, you pay face value for the ticket but do not pay the ticketbastard/vilenation fees. So, you save about $18.

But the proportion of club seats to regular seats is not very high, so Buffett's portion of the fees (if any) would not be very significant. I wouldn't think...

And you have to have points (be an active member, not just pay dues) to be eligible to buy a limited number of tickets through your club. So, IF the ticket agencies start selling the club tickets, I would think they would need the club president to administer the sale somehow. Perhaps the club president could turn in a list of eligible members to the local ticketmaster branch, and then eligible members could purchase their tickets in person between x and y date before they go on sale to the public?

But of course, that opens the debate of whether phc members should have to pay the fees...

[NIEB AT 52]

Bravo....Todd!!!!!!!

[oceanstate]

The concert folks contacted the clubs in New England late yesterday about it. Seems we have until Saturday to give them a count. That means they are holding the block out of the general ticket sale on Saturday. If the clubs don't commit to all, the rest will be turned back in and then made available to the general public. Or, we could just skip a step and give them to the scalpers, to save Ticketmaster and LiveNation the trouble.

[oceanstate]

Not a PHC member but it does seem that PHC members always think that they should be entiltled to tickets for whatever reason...

Not an active PHC member here and don't get club tickets but I do kinda think active members are somewhat entitled... They do a load of good in JB's name and have had a big hand in making him what he is, and there ought to be a few perks for that...

Club members pay full price for seats no? I thought the only issue is that they are assured a ticket so I don't see how it's more lucrative. From what I understand they turn them back in.
And I agree, the clubs do raise a ton of money in JB's name giving him good press, they don't JUST get together to drink once a month. Wouldn't the problem be solved by giving club members a pre-sale password for their local show with a limit of say 4 tix each? I paid to join Elton Johns fan club and got a pre-sale password for that, James Taylor's was free and I got one for his shows too. How difficult would that be I wonder?

If you buy club tickets, you pay face value for the ticket but do not pay the ticketbastard/vilenation fees. So, you save about $18.

But the proportion of club seats to regular seats is not very high, so Buffett's portion of the fees (if any) would not be very significant. I wouldn't think...

And you have to have points (be an active member, not just pay dues) to be eligible to buy a limited number of tickets through your club. So, IF the ticket agencies start selling the club tickets, I would think they would need the club president to administer the sale somehow. Perhaps the club president could turn in a list of eligible members to the local ticketmaster branch, and then eligible members could purchase their tickets in person between x and y date before they go on sale to the public?

But of course, that opens the debate of whether phc members should have to pay the fees...

Club tix are full price. Probably the $136 range. The problem with giving them a presale password is that it opens it up to folks giving the password to the scalper folks, which causing all sorts of heartburn. By doing it through the club, they can control it a bit better.

[pema]

Not a PHC member but it does seem that PHC members always think that they should be entiltled to tickets for whatever reason...

Not an active PHC member here and don't get club tickets but I do kinda think active members are somewhat entitled... They do a load of good in JB's name and have had a big hand in making him what he is, and there ought to be a few perks for that...

Club members pay full price for seats no? I thought the only issue is that they are assured a ticket so I don't see how it's more lucrative. From what I understand they turn them back in.
And I agree, the clubs do raise a ton of money in JB's name giving him good press, they don't JUST get together to drink once a month. Wouldn't the problem be solved by giving club members a pre-sale password for their local show with a limit of say 4 tix each? I paid to join Elton Johns fan club and got a pre-sale password for that, James Taylor's was free and I got one for his shows too. How difficult would that be I wonder?

If you buy club tickets, you pay face value for the ticket but do not pay the ticketbastard/vilenation fees. So, you save about $18.

But the proportion of club seats to regular seats is not very high, so Buffett's portion of the fees (if any) would not be very significant. I wouldn't think...

And you have to have points (be an active member, not just pay dues) to be eligible to buy a limited number of tickets through your club. So, IF the ticket agencies start selling the club tickets, I would think they would need the club president to administer the sale somehow. Perhaps the club president could turn in a list of eligible members to the local ticketmaster branch, and then eligible members could purchase their tickets in person between x and y date before they go on sale to the public?

But of course, that opens the debate of whether phc members should have to pay the fees...

Club tix are full price. Probably the $136 range. The problem with giving them a presale password is that it opens it up to folks giving the password to the scalper folks, which causing all sorts of heartburn. By doing it through the club, they can control it a bit better.

they are NOT full price because you don't have to pay the ticket agency fees (around $18 dollars)

[ScarletB]

Not a PHC member but it does seem that PHC members always think that they should be entiltled to tickets for whatever reason...

Not an active PHC member here and don't get club tickets but I do kinda think active members are somewhat entitled... They do a load of good in JB's name and have had a big hand in making him what he is, and there ought to be a few perks for that...

Club members pay full price for seats no? I thought the only issue is that they are assured a ticket so I don't see how it's more lucrative. From what I understand they turn them back in.
And I agree, the clubs do raise a ton of money in JB's name giving him good press, they don't JUST get together to drink once a month. Wouldn't the problem be solved by giving club members a pre-sale password for their local show with a limit of say 4 tix each? I paid to join Elton Johns fan club and got a pre-sale password for that, James Taylor's was free and I got one for his shows too. How difficult would that be I wonder?

If you buy club tickets, you pay face value for the ticket but do not pay the ticketbastard/vilenation fees. So, you save about $18.

But the proportion of club seats to regular seats is not very high, so Buffett's portion of the fees (if any) would not be very significant. I wouldn't think...

And you have to have points (be an active member, not just pay dues) to be eligible to buy a limited number of tickets through your club. So, IF the ticket agencies start selling the club tickets, I would think they would need the club president to administer the sale somehow. Perhaps the club president could turn in a list of eligible members to the local ticketmaster branch, and then eligible members could purchase their tickets in person between x and y date before they go on sale to the public?

But of course, that opens the debate of whether phc members should have to pay the fees...

Club tix are full price. Probably the $136 range. The problem with giving them a presale password is that it opens it up to folks giving the password to the scalper folks, which causing all sorts of heartburn. By doing it through the club, they can control it a bit better.

That makes sense. I guess I'm still fuzzy on how decreasing the amount of club tickets puts more money in Jimmy's pocket though? Looks like the highest price tix at GW are $128.50 and I believe that's a TAD less than last year. While I agree it's INCREDIBLY stupid to ask people to commit to something when they don't know the date, I still don't get how it benefits JB to have fewer club seats. I'd think TM would be the ones against it since it circumvents their fees.

[oceanstate]

I think the tickets generally sell anyway -- eventually. I really don't believe that anyone's trying to kill the club tix, I think they just are dropping these events in a moment's notice and believe that folks who really want to see the show have the means to do so. When no one knows the date, the clubs can't prepare. If they could trust the clubs to keep quiet, they'd probably tell them earlier, but we all know what happens when you tell one parrothead anything.

[oceanstate]

they are NOT full price because you don't have to pay the ticket agency fees (around $18 dollars)

How's this...they are face value. There's no additional discount.

I'll also say that I'm in several fan clubs for various artists and when the club does tix, it's always face value and without the fees. Seems fair for being part of the club. Sorry if it offends Ticketmaster, but pretty much everything they do offends me.

[pema]

Not a PHC member but it does seem that PHC members always think that they should be entiltled to tickets for whatever reason...

Not an active PHC member here and don't get club tickets but I do kinda think active members are somewhat entitled... They do a load of good in JB's name and have had a big hand in making him what he is, and there ought to be a few perks for that...

Club members pay full price for seats no? I thought the only issue is that they are assured a ticket so I don't see how it's more lucrative. From what I understand they turn them back in.
And I agree, the clubs do raise a ton of money in JB's name giving him good press, they don't JUST get together to drink once a month. Wouldn't the problem be solved by giving club members a pre-sale password for their local show with a limit of say 4 tix each? I paid to join Elton Johns fan club and got a pre-sale password for that, James Taylor's was free and I got one for his shows too. How difficult would that be I wonder?

If you buy club tickets, you pay face value for the ticket but do not pay the ticketbastard/vilenation fees. So, you save about $18.

But the proportion of club seats to regular seats is not very high, so Buffett's portion of the fees (if any) would not be very significant. I wouldn't think...

And you have to have points (be an active member, not just pay dues) to be eligible to buy a limited number of tickets through your club. So, IF the ticket agencies start selling the club tickets, I would think they would need the club president to administer the sale somehow. Perhaps the club president could turn in a list of eligible members to the local ticketmaster branch, and then eligible members could purchase their tickets in person between x and y date before they go on sale to the public?

But of course, that opens the debate of whether phc members should have to pay the fees...

Club tix are full price. Probably the $136 range. The problem with giving them a presale password is that it opens it up to folks giving the password to the scalper folks, which causing all sorts of heartburn. By doing it through the club, they can control it a bit better.

That makes sense. I guess I'm still fuzzy on how decreasing the amount of club tickets puts more money in Jimmy's pocket though? Looks like the highest price tix at GW are $128.50 and I believe that's a TAD less than last year. While I agree it's INCREDIBLY stupid to ask people to commit to something when they don't know the date, I still don't get how it benefits JB to have fewer club seats. I'd think TM would be the ones against it since it circumvents their fees.

yeah, i am wondering if maybe certain venues are up for contract renewal and some are not. and for the ones that are, they are re-evaluating how many tickets they will promise to the ticket angencies. if the available club tickets weren't all used in prior years, then maybe lowering the # of club tickets held back, would be a way for Buffett's mgmt to negotiate better terms. so, perhaps they are doing market research to find out how many club tickets are actually needed

but i don't think asking folks to commit to buying tickets for an unspecfied date creates a valid contract, under the law... i could be wrong about that (i'm not an attorney). but it certainly isn't fair. perhaps they are just making it appear that way to get a more solid figure...???

[RinglingRingling]

Not a PHC member but it does seem that PHC members always think that they should be entiltled to tickets for whatever reason...

Not an active PHC member here and don't get club tickets but I do kinda think active members are somewhat entitled... They do a load of good in JB's name and have had a big hand in making him what he is, and there ought to be a few perks for that...

Club members pay full price for seats no? I thought the only issue is that they are assured a ticket so I don't see how it's more lucrative. From what I understand they turn them back in.
And I agree, the clubs do raise a ton of money in JB's name giving him good press, they don't JUST get together to drink once a month. Wouldn't the problem be solved by giving club members a pre-sale password for their local show with a limit of say 4 tix each? I paid to join Elton Johns fan club and got a pre-sale password for that, James Taylor's was free and I got one for his shows too. How difficult would that be I wonder?

If you buy club tickets, you pay face value for the ticket but do not pay the ticketbastard/vilenation fees. So, you save about $18.

But the proportion of club seats to regular seats is not very high, so Buffett's portion of the fees (if any) would not be very significant. I wouldn't think...

And you have to have points (be an active member, not just pay dues) to be eligible to buy a limited number of tickets through your club. So, IF the ticket agencies start selling the club tickets, I would think they would need the club president to administer the sale somehow. Perhaps the club president could turn in a list of eligible members to the local ticketmaster branch, and then eligible members could purchase their tickets in person between x and y date before they go on sale to the public?

But of course, that opens the debate of whether phc members should have to pay the fees...

Club tix are full price. Probably the $136 range. The problem with giving them a presale password is that it opens it up to folks giving the password to the scalper folks, which causing all sorts of heartburn. By doing it through the club, they can control it a bit better.

That makes sense. I guess I'm still fuzzy on how decreasing the amount of club tickets puts more money in Jimmy's pocket though? Looks like the highest price tix at GW are $128.50 and I believe that's a TAD less than last year. While I agree it's INCREDIBLY stupid to ask people to commit to something when they don't know the date, I still don't get how it benefits JB to have fewer club seats. I'd think TM would be the ones against it since it circumvents their fees.

see above: increased ticket prices under the new model of pricing for Evilba$tard, a few bucks more. Also, little-known factoid about the grey-market seats that the companies like Fanhouse and the like sell, artists like Bon Jovi get a portion of the higher seat prices sold by the venue/second seller so seats that face for $135, second-sourced for $500+..

but again.. the big issue I tried to raise is this:

It is absolutely retarded to contact the PHCs to get them to commit to purchasing tickets for a show for which dates have not been released. That $136/ ticket is straight face, no fees so thank god for that little favour, but still $136/ ticket in the hands of the PHC, non-refundable, for a show that may or may not fit the purchasers' plans, and the decision on whether to jump or not has a 3-5 day window.

Simple solution: announce the goddam dates now, or wait on the full-court press for seat commitments until you have a date.

[oceanstate]

Commitment for tix doesn't constitute a valid contract. They haven't given you an actual ticket yet, so there's no offer and consideration. It just might tick off the club prez. And it might be a violation of club rules. But they cannot force you to cough up the cash for the ticket if you don't want.

The clubs are under a lot of pressure to get a fairly accurate count of the tickets needed, as the venue likes to have as many as possible to sell when they open for the general public. When the clubs are given a block of 300 and then only use 75, it causes some static as the venue then has to release the remainder. They usually still get sold, but it's extra work.

[RinglingRingling]

Commitment for tix doesn't constitute a valid contract. They haven't given you an actual ticket yet, so there's no offer and consideration. It just might tick off the club prez. And it might be a violation of club rules. But they cannot force you to cough up the cash for the ticket if you don't want.

The clubs are under a lot of pressure to get a fairly accurate count of the tickets needed, as the venue likes to have as many as possible to sell when they open for the general public. When the clubs are given a block of 300 and then only use 75, it causes some static as the venue then has to release the remainder. They usually still get sold, but it's extra work.

ocean... yes they can. maybe your club does it differently, but commitment and payment are day follows night so if you want them you pay for them in the BPHC.

[oceanstate]

Commitment for tix doesn't constitute a valid contract. They haven't given you an actual ticket yet, so there's no offer and consideration. It just might tick off the club prez. And it might be a violation of club rules. But they cannot force you to cough up the cash for the ticket if you don't want.

The clubs are under a lot of pressure to get a fairly accurate count of the tickets needed, as the venue likes to have as many as possible to sell when they open for the general public. When the clubs are given a block of 300 and then only use 75, it causes some static as the venue then has to release the remainder. They usually still get sold, but it's extra work.

ocean... yes they can. maybe your club does it differently, but commitment and payment are day follows night so if you want them you pay for them in the BPHC.

So what do they do if you decide not to pay?

[Carolinadreamin']

Commitment for tix doesn't constitute a valid contract. They haven't given you an actual ticket yet, so there's no offer and consideration. It just might tick off the club prez. And it might be a violation of club rules. But they cannot force you to cough up the cash for the ticket if you don't want.

The clubs are under a lot of pressure to get a fairly accurate count of the tickets needed, as the venue likes to have as many as possible to sell when they open for the general public. When the clubs are given a block of 300 and then only use 75, it causes some static as the venue then has to release the remainder. They usually still get sold, but it's extra work.

When our club states it wants "X" amount of tix, we have to pay that amount up front. In the past, we got stuck with tix that some pholks decided on second thoought they didn't want. The club now "owns" those tix....if they get turned back, you'll never get as many tix again. We have a point system for who is eligible for tix (highest to lowest) and have gone through the whole list. So now once as a club member, you commit to tix, you must pay for them up front. If you commit, decide you don't want them and don't pay your club ....how many friends would you have left in the club? If in desperation to get rid of tix, you could sell them at face but include the price of becoming a member the PHC and register the buyer. That way club members only have club tix.

I know this all sounds completely crazy but it has happened in the past. Especially if you have a 2nd concert date that is on an "unfriendly" date like say........Labor Day Monday.......

[Tropic_Al]

On a side note. I don't get club tix, though I'm a PHC member. I have better luck & get better seats, believe it or not, through T'master or Livenation.