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DP66...sounds like you work in my school district?? Can I have some of my tax money back please??!! I took a 10% pay cut last year in order to stay employed. So...add their 3% per year increase and over the next four years, I have actually taken a 22% cut!...no increase in health care contributions is part of their "demands".

Oh...and lets talk "tenure"...now...there a racquet!! No matter how bad the teacher, they will not be let go. No matter how inept they are, no disciplinary actions...

I really do get tired of hearing how hard the teachers have it. I also stay late - I answer emails all day AND at home - I work on reports at home for my job - AND...work a full year to get a full years' pay. My bad for not taking Education ... I do not begrudge teachers salaries but, please, stop the complaining.

"I make a goddamn difference!"

Seems like we're missing the point here. I feel blessed to have had these sort of teachers. Yep. They made a huge difference.

Unfortunately, our community lost one of the good ones that made a difference:
http://www.mtdemocrat.com/news/breaking ... principal/

He knew each of his students by name and often greeted them in the morning with a handshake, asking them if they were ready for school today. Friends and colleagues affectionately called him “the mayor” for the way he could get things done to benefit the students he served.


“A large part of an assistant principal’s job is handling kids who are not succeeding,” said Coate. “He didn’t think they were failures, though. They just hadn’t succeeded — yet. Maybe they needed to be away from Markham School and in another environment to succeed, but they still remained ‘Not Yet,’ not failures.”


You want to know what I make?

I make kids wonder,
I make them question.
I make them criticize.
I make them apologize and mean it.
I make them write, write, write.
And then I make them read.
I make them spell definitely beautiful, definitely beautiful, definitely
beautiful
over and over and over again until they will never misspell
either one of those words again.
I make them show all their work in math.
And hide it on their final drafts in English.
I make them understand that if you got this (brains)
then you follow this (heart) and if someone ever tries to judge you
by what you make, you give them this (the finger).

Let me break it down for you, so you know what I say is true:
I make a goddamn difference! What about you?

Seems to me that teachers who keep saying "I make a difference...what do you do?" are probably those that are having a tough time defending their salary, benefits, etc.

Everyone of us every day has an opportunity to make a difference in someone's life......And...you needn't be a teacher to do it. You have a job - do your job and you won't need to stand up and shout "I make a difference!!" others will do it for you....until that time, they are meaningless words.

Not to state the obvious, but if it weren't for teachers none of us would be able to sit at our computers typing coherent English sentences in response to any of these comments.

I've known a lot of teachers over the years at every level from kindergarten up to college professors. I admire them for what they do. I admire some of them much more than others, for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with their job. Personally, I could never be a teacher. I don't have the patience to deal with the little monsters we're raising in this country today with their bloated sense of entitlement.

drunkpirate66 wrote:I have worked in Education for the past year.

Come back and talk with us in five years...and then only if you've spent a considerable amount of time in the classroom. A counselor's office is not like a classroom. High school teachers DO have to worry about kids being fed, clothed, safe, depressed, suicidal, and runaways. Try teaching a student who can't stay awake in class because she just worked the 11 p.m. to 5 a.m. shift at the local strip club.

Check out what's happening to education in Wisconsin, Indiana, and Ohio. You may want to think twice before gloating. From my perspective, MA is very, very, VERY generous to its teachers.

I don't complain about my salary; I choose to teach. I don't expect accolades, but I also don't expect to be bashed.

There are two types of teachers in our world today. Those that see teaching as a career and those that see teaching as a job.

Jon describes perfectly those who see teaching as a job. They get to school when they are required to and then leave as soon as they can. They are not available before and after school to help their students. They don't show up to extra activities unless they are required or they get paid. They do not put forth the extra effort to make themselves a better teacher or find ways to make learning relevant to their students. Their classrooms are full of worksheets, videos, etc. They grade only the minimum assignments that they have to per the district rules. Constructive feedback to student is minimal. They take every possible day off - using both sick and personal days. They have the attitude that if the school doesn't provide the materials then they don't need it.

The other kind of teachers see it as a career. They are there before they are required to be in the morning so they can help their students who can't stay after and are also there after school for those who can't come before school. They are always looking for ways to help their students learn and ways to update their knowledge in the area they teach. They show up at events because they know most of their students do not have someone at home who can come or want to come support them. They answer student emails after they get home because they know the student needs help. They show up to work when they do not feel 100% because they know how important it is to be there. They would rather be in the classroom than out of the classroom. They scarf their lunch or even skip it because 20 min isn't enough time to get to the workroom, eat and get back to the classroom before the students return. During the summer, they are in workshops, courses, etc to improve their teaching for their students. They pay for these things out of pocket - not depending on their school to pay for it. They take their papers home to grade, providing students with valuable feedback rather than a completion grade.

I am a professional educator. I have the experience and education to back it up. I take offense at people who say education is an easy job. I have worked in some of the toughest schools in Texas. I've also worked in schools where money wasn't an object. I have worked with all kinds of teachers, in all kinds of schools, all over the US. It is the same, no matter where you go. Teachers sign contracts for 9 months. They do not get 3 months off with pay. They have the option to have the 9 month salary paid out over 12 months. Very rarely do you find a teacher who does not have some kind of second income. Those that are career teachers use the summer to attend workshops, take courses or find ways to become better teachers, not sit on the beach and drink all day. They pay for courses and materials out of their own pocket because the school doesn't have the money to pay them.

Parental accountability is close to 0 today. Parents blame the school if their child fails. Teachers are expected to not only teach their subject area, but also teach values and morals. Have you heard the term "character education?" I bet every teacher on this board can tell you a story of where a parent has told them not to bother them regarding their child - that the student is the teacher's problem during the day. What some of these kids experience when they leave school is appalling. No child, elementary to high school, should have to deal with the things they do today. In addition, they have to work with students in their classroom who are not native English speaking (many who are not even literate in the native language) and have learning disabilities. They are required to individualize instruction to meet the needs of each student. When the majority of people on this board were in school, these students were in "special" classes and you never saw them. Now they are required by law to be in regular classroom. Let's not forget the gifted and talented student too. So let's see - I have to teach my content, how to behave, and modify instruction for my ELL, special ed and GT students - all who are in the same class together. Not to mention the paperwork I have to fill out documenting this so I don't get sued. It's easy as cake... pie... ice cream...

Most middle school and high school teachers see 150-175 students a day. Elementary teachers see the same 25 kids all day long. When I took a specialist position at an elementary school, it gave me a whole new respect for elementary teachers. They had to keep those "problem" students all day long while I could get rid of them after 50 min. On top of that, they have to deal with potty issues. My student who went into labor in class was nothing like potty issues.

You think teaching is easy? I invite you to take your two weeks of vacation from your job and come teach in one of the schools I work with on a daily basis. If it was so easy, why do over half leave after teaching 3 years? Teach for America and UTEACH are two highly touted programs. Once the participant's time commitment is up, they are out of there.

Jon, being a counselor and a coach is a totally different experience than being a real classroom teacher. Not that what you do isn't important but you don't have the pressure on you for the students to perform on standardize testing (which is another nest of bees). Athletics bring revenue into the district, I know that. Heck I live in Texas where high school football is king. If your district really provides all of the things you listed (money for grad courses, all the supplies you need to teach, etc), you are very lucky. It is an exception to the norm and feel lucky you have a job with them. Most schools get grants for professional development. Not one federal or state grant that I know of (and I have been awarded grants from every major federal agency) will allow food costs. Most state grants are flow through federal money for districts. If they do allow to pay for food, then it has to be a working lunch.


If I had to pick between taking a faculty position or teaching high school biology, I would take high school biology in a heart beat. Nothing beats getting an email from a former student telling you they are the first college graduate in their family and they would have never gone to college without you pushing them to follow their dreams.

I recently read a book by Andy Rooey. It was a collection of essays he had written, some of which were just lists of quotes. One of the quotes was about teachers.

Most of us end up with no more than five or six people who remember us. Teachers have thousands of people who remember them for the rest of their lives.

Big Phan wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:I have worked in Education for the past year.

Come back and talk with us in five years...and then only if you've spent a considerable amount of time in the classroom. A counselor's office is not like a classroom. High school teachers DO have to worry about kids being fed, clothed, safe, depressed, suicidal, and runaways. Try teaching a student who can't stay awake in class because she just worked the 11 p.m. to 5 a.m. shift at the local strip club.

Check out what's happening to education in Wisconsin, Indiana, and Ohio. You may want to think twice before gloating. From my perspective, MA is very, very, VERY generous to its teachers.

I don't complain about my salary; I choose to teach. I don't expect accolades, but I also don't expect to be bashed.

Really? Because you seem to be projecting it. I didn't bash anyone. I just don't see teaching as a job more important then guys who pave roads (I did that), serve in the military (I did that), work construction (also, that) or any other job. Even your stripper, in my honest opinion, is earning an honest wage and should be commended. Seriously. Her choice. Better than welfare.

Massachusetts is very heavily taxed and very liberal. I am not. I am very conservative. As a person on an educator's salary (counselors and teachers are on the same pay scale) I realize this. It is mostly cost of living but still we do well here. I agree. I earn the median household income for my district (68,000$). I earn this over 180 days of contracted work (7 hours per day). With the aforementioned 20 sicks says and 5 personal days + medical, dental, tenure, and free college I feel I do quite well. Better than most. Better then I did in the military or lifting heavy things all day or paving roads in the 90 degree heat.

If you think you were bashed then get some thicker skin. It never happened. Not on this thread. Not anywhere. I could say "go watch a youtube video about how great people who work at schools are" but I won't. I just don't see teaching as any more important then many other jobs that don't get our level of pay or benefits or free time. I never have to worry about working a Christmas and I certainly take advantage of booking flights in February when I get my schedule in August.

Oh . . . I was an instructor in the military for many years. Perhaps you missed that line when you quoted me. Public school is way easier. Perhaps it is you who are "bashing" me.

MammaBear wrote:DP66...sounds like you work in my school district?? Can I have some of my tax money back please??!! I took a 10% pay cut last year in order to stay employed. So...add their 3% per year increase and over the next four years, I have actually taken a 22% cut!...no increase in health care contributions is part of their "demands".

Oh...and lets talk "tenure"...now...there a racquet!! No matter how bad the teacher, they will not be let go. No matter how inept they are, no disciplinary actions...

I really do get tired of hearing how hard the teachers have it. I also stay late - I answer emails all day AND at home - I work on reports at home for my job - AND...work a full year to get a full years' pay. My bad for not taking Education ... I do not begrudge teachers salaries but, please, stop the complaining.

You nailed it.

LIPH wrote:I recently read a book by Andy Rooey. It was a collection of essays he had written, some of which were just lists of quotes. One of the quotes was about teachers.

Most of us end up with no more than five or six people who remember us. Teachers have thousands of people who remember them for the rest of their lives.

Yet another benefit! No one knows of or remembers people serve in combat (unless it is a friend or family member), how many police and fire fighters can you name? Who knows who paves your roads or fixes the overall infrastructure of your community? These guys are busting their asSes. Teachers have it made in that regard. And their/our awesome 180 maximum per year work schedule which, after serving in the military and working manual labor, I am totally loving. Oh - and the kids are great too. I get paid to play baseball and lift weights and run . . . life is so f"n grand.

Since the people who pave the roads and the people who educate my kids are both funded from state dollars, I pick better teachers.

Of note, talk about a proud teacher moment, I took my daughter to see the national touring production of Spring Awakening the other night. One of the actresses in the show went to the same school my daughter attends and they had the same theatre teacher. The actress secured an on-stage seat for her former teacher (seat #19 which is evidently a big deal).

Now, I do appreciate manual laborers--there is certainly dedication and honor in doing that work (we won't get into the nitty gritty of manual laborers and illegal aliens). However, to see a student who you taught for 7 years achieve their dream--a huge dream of performing on a national scale--that's a big f'n deal to me. I'm sure this kid drove on paved roads to school every day, but that road paver certainly did not teach her how to perform.

txaggirl91 wrote:There are two types of teachers in our world today. Those that see teaching as a career and those that see teaching as a job.

Jon describes perfectly those who see teaching as a job. They get to school when they are required to and then leave as soon as they can. They are not available before and after school to help their students. They don't show up to extra activities unless they are required or they get paid. They do not put forth the extra effort to make themselves a better teacher or find ways to make learning relevant to their students. Their classrooms are full of worksheets, videos, etc. They grade only the minimum assignments that they have to per the district rules. Constructive feedback to student is minimal. They take every possible day off - using both sick and personal days. They have the attitude that if the school doesn't provide the materials then they don't need it.

The other kind of teachers see it as a career. They are there before they are required to be in the morning so they can help their students who can't stay after and are also there after school for those who can't come before school. They are always looking for ways to help their students learn and ways to update their knowledge in the area they teach. They show up at events because they know most of their students do not have someone at home who can come or want to come support them. They answer student emails after they get home because they know the student needs help. They show up to work when they do not feel 100% because they know how important it is to be there. They would rather be in the classroom than out of the classroom. They scarf their lunch or even skip it because 20 min isn't enough time to get to the workroom, eat and get back to the classroom before the students return. During the summer, they are in workshops, courses, etc to improve their teaching for their students. They pay for these things out of pocket - not depending on their school to pay for it. They take their papers home to grade, providing students with valuable feedback rather than a completion grade.

I am a professional educator. I have the experience and education to back it up. I take offense at people who say education is an easy job. I have worked in some of the toughest schools in Texas. I've also worked in schools where money wasn't an object. I have worked with all kinds of teachers, in all kinds of schools, all over the US. It is the same, no matter where you go. Teachers sign contracts for 9 months. They do not get 3 months off with pay. They have the option to have the 9 month salary paid out over 12 months. Very rarely do you find a teacher who does not have some kind of second income. Those that are career teachers use the summer to attend workshops, take courses or find ways to become better teachers, not sit on the beach and drink all day. They pay for courses and materials out of their own pocket because the school doesn't have the money to pay them.

Parental accountability is close to 0 today. Parents blame the school if their child fails. Teachers are expected to not only teach their subject area, but also teach values and morals. Have you heard the term "character education?" I bet every teacher on this board can tell you a story of where a parent has told them not to bother them regarding their child - that the student is the teacher's problem during the day. What some of these kids experience when they leave school is appalling. No child, elementary to high school, should have to deal with the things they do today. In addition, they have to work with students in their classroom who are not native English speaking (many who are not even literate in the native language) and have learning disabilities. They are required to individualize instruction to meet the needs of each student. When the majority of people on this board were in school, these students were in "special" classes and you never saw them. Now they are required by law to be in regular classroom. Let's not forget the gifted and talented student too. So let's see - I have to teach my content, how to behave, and modify instruction for my ELL, special ed and GT students - all who are in the same class together. Not to mention the paperwork I have to fill out documenting this so I don't get sued. It's easy as cake... pie... ice cream...

Most middle school and high school teachers see 150-175 students a day. Elementary teachers see the same 25 kids all day long. When I took a specialist position at an elementary school, it gave me a whole new respect for elementary teachers. They had to keep those "problem" students all day long while I could get rid of them after 50 min. On top of that, they have to deal with potty issues. My student who went into labor in class was nothing like potty issues.

You think teaching is easy? I invite you to take your two weeks of vacation from your job and come teach in one of the schools I work with on a daily basis. If it was so easy, why do over half leave after teaching 3 years? Teach for America and UTEACH are two highly touted programs. Once the participant's time commitment is up, they are out of there.

Jon, being a counselor and a coach is a totally different experience than being a real classroom teacher. Not that what you do isn't important but you don't have the pressure on you for the students to perform on standardize testing (which is another nest of bees). Athletics bring revenue into the district, I know that. Heck I live in Texas where high school football is king. If your district really provides all of the things you listed (money for grad courses, all the supplies you need to teach, etc), you are very lucky. It is an exception to the norm and feel lucky you have a job with them. Most schools get grants for professional development. Not one federal or state grant that I know of (and I have been awarded grants from every major federal agency) will allow food costs. Most state grants are flow through federal money for districts. If they do allow to pay for food, then it has to be a working lunch.


If I had to pick between taking a faculty position or teaching high school biology, I would take high school biology in a heart beat. Nothing beats getting an email from a former student telling you they are the first college graduate in their family and they would have never gone to college without you pushing them to follow their dreams.

wCs

buffettbride wrote:Since the people who pave the roads and the people who educate my kids are both funded from state dollars, I pick better teachers.

Of note, talk about a proud teacher moment, I took my daughter to see the national touring production of Spring Awakening the other night. One of the actresses in the show went to the same school my daughter attends and they had the same theatre teacher. The actress secured an on-stage seat for her former teacher (seat #19 which is evidently a big deal).

Now, I do appreciate manual laborers--there is certainly dedication and honor in doing that work (we won't get into the nitty gritty of manual laborers and illegal aliens). However, to see a student who you taught for 7 years achieve their dream--a huge dream of performing on a national scale--that's a big f'n deal to me. I'm sure this kid drove on paved roads to school every day, but that road paver certainly did not teach her how to perform.

I put everyone on the same level. Not sure why any one profession deserves or warrants more accolades then another. Especially when people work 350 + days a year for less money and benefits then those who work 180 days a year.

pair8head wrote:wCs

wC&Ds
Thank you Janice!!!!

Thank you Janice..

My Mother taught me and I taught my students when I was teaching...
If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all!!

1. Excellent Janice!

2. Jon, I"m VERY glad I don't pay taxes in your town.