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We've touched on it several times in other threads and discussions, so I thought it might be worth its own thread. The Civil War holds a horrible fascination for me. Maybe if they'd just talked it out a little more, the better part of a generation wouldn't have been killed or maimed.

This month's National Geographic is about the CW, and there's a great insert that covers the route each army took to Gettysburg.

Gettysburg is a powerful place. If you've never been there and you have the opportunity to go, don't pass it up. One of my CW friends put the casualties in perspective like this: picture a large baseball park like Yankees Stadium, filled to capacity. That's about how many men (and women) were killed, wounded, captured or missing at Gettysburg. Women? Uh-huh, a few, disguised as men. There were so many very young men in both armies that it wasn't too hard for a young woman to masquerade as a teenage boy. The burial parties at Gettysburg found the body of a young woman, probably from a Virginia regiment, at the stone wall on Cemetery Ridge, the point of farthest advance of the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia.

I've made it to a number of major battlefields including Shiloh, Vicksburg, Antietam/Sharpsburg, Manassas/Bull Run, Seven Days battlefields, Fredericksburg, Chancellorsville, Petersburg, Appomattox, Franklin (TN) and others, but still have many to go.

Anyone planning to visit particular places during the the 150th anniversary?

Discuss?

I've been to Shiloh and hope someday to be able to see Gettysberg and some of the others you mentioned.
I did get to see Stone Mountain when I lived in Georgia and that was pretty spectacular.

I really want to spend a bit more time seeing the Northeast part of the country where lots of history was made. especially during the Revolution and Civil Wars.
Retirement is just two years away--maybe then?

I've been to a lot of the World War II pacific battle sites, but I really have a burning desire to see places where Revolutionary and Civil War battles were fought.

Should have gone to Bull Run when I lived in DC.

aeroparrot wrote:Should have gone to Bull Run when I lived in DC.

Last spring we took a trip to Shenandoah National Park in Virginia and drove Skyline Drive. I recommend it -- the views were breathtaking! It is also the path of Stonewall Jackson's army through the valley, so when you stop at the lookouts there are signs explaining what took place at each spot. Fascinating. On the way home we stopped at Gettysburg. Very moving. There's something about the place, like you can feel the presence of so many fine men and boys, on both sides, of course. Have also been to Arlington. Again, such a sadly beautiful place. My kids were very impressed by the changing of the guard. So solemn and dignified. I enjoyed seeing Lee's house. Have also been to Ford's Theatre and the house where Lincoln died. Seeing these places makes you realize how precious our country is and how easily it could all be lost, and how people made such terrible sacrifices to preserve it. So many people take things for granted now, and are so disrespectful. As a teacher I have a struggle every year just to get my kids to say the Pledge of Allegiance respectfully! But I train 'em up right, and at this point in the year they know what I expect and they do it with enthusiasm!

I've been down that way many times. Like most, I was taught in school the very simplistic "Hollywood" happy ending version of the Civil War. Much like how Columbus "discovered" America (even though there were people already here and that the Chinese and Viking clans had already landed on what was to become America's shores hundreds of years prior) the way the Civil War is taught in schools and what the general public seem to think of it, in my opinion, is a candy coated pile of bull. People to this day actually believe that the primary reason for much of the North's acts was to free slaves. Abraham Lincoln's motivations for the war had little if nothing to do with slavery. The Emancipation Proclamation didn't affect in any way shape or form slave states being part of the Union. None. I am sure that many of the soldiers used slavery as their own tool of motivation (whether it was from a "Southern" perspective or whether it was "Northern" in perspective) but the fact is simple: Lincoln and many Government workers and analysts knew they needed the South and its resources to maintain the big Industrial companies and cities of the North . . . but not the other way around. Culmination: Gettysburg.

Wino you know wrote:I've been to Shiloh and hope someday to be able to see Gettysberg and some of the others you mentioned.
I did get to see Stone Mountain when I lived in Georgia and that was pretty spectacular.

I really want to spend a bit more time seeing the Northeast part of the country where lots of history was made. especially during the Revolution and Civil Wars.
Retirement is just two years away--maybe then?

I've been to a lot of the World War II pacific battle sites, but I really have a burning desire to see places where Revolutionary and Civil War battles were fought.

Minuteman National Park (Concord, MA) is a really cool place to visit. You can hop in Walden Pond after to cool off.

drunkpirate66 wrote:I've been down that way many times. Like most, I was taught in school the very simplistic "Hollywood" happy ending version of the Civil War. Much like how Columbus "discovered" America (even though there were people already here and that the Chinese and Viking clans had already landed on what was to become America's shores hundreds of years prior) the way the Civil War is taught in schools and what the general public seem to think of it, in my opinion, is a candy coated pile of bull. People to this day actually believe that the primary reason for much of the North's acts was to free slaves. Abraham Lincoln's motivations for the war had little if nothing to do with slavery. The Emancipation Proclamation didn't affect in any way shape or form slave states being part of the Union. None. I am sure that many of the soldiers used slavery as their own tool of motivation (whether it was from a "Southern" perspective or whether it was "Northern" in perspective) but the fact is simple: Lincoln and many Government workers and analysts knew they needed the South and its resources to maintain the big Industrial companies and cities of the North . . . but not the other way around. Culmination: Gettysburg.

It sounds like you are a very learned person who probably puts a high level of thought into processing information, as well as quite the history buff. Unfortunately, many people do not want to put that much effort into thinking and critically reading, viewing, and listening; and so they are perfectly content to accept whatever watered-down pablum they are presented with by the media and education-industrial complex (which could be a whole other discussion!) As a teacher of 30 years, I struggle to equip my kids with the critical thinking skills they need to be independent thinkers, and to motivate them to process information in such a way. However, it is human nature to take the path of least resistance, which is how we wind up with leaders who take advantage of our willingness to be blissfully ignorant.

But the sun is shining, the birds are singing, and Buffett is coming around again this summer! Breathe in, breathe out, and move on!

sistergoldenhair wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:I've been down that way many times. Like most, I was taught in school the very simplistic "Hollywood" happy ending version of the Civil War. Much like how Columbus "discovered" America (even though there were people already here and that the Chinese and Viking clans had already landed on what was to become America's shores hundreds of years prior) the way the Civil War is taught in schools and what the general public seem to think of it, in my opinion, is a candy coated pile of bull. People to this day actually believe that the primary reason for much of the North's acts was to free slaves. Abraham Lincoln's motivations for the war had little if nothing to do with slavery. The Emancipation Proclamation didn't affect in any way shape or form slave states being part of the Union. None. I am sure that many of the soldiers used slavery as their own tool of motivation (whether it was from a "Southern" perspective or whether it was "Northern" in perspective) but the fact is simple: Lincoln and many Government workers and analysts knew they needed the South and its resources to maintain the big Industrial companies and cities of the North . . . but not the other way around. Culmination: Gettysburg.

It sounds like you are a very learned person who probably puts a high level of thought into processing information, as well as quite the history buff. Unfortunately, many people do not want to put that much effort into thinking and critically reading, viewing, and listening; and so they are perfectly content to accept whatever watered-down pablum they are presented with by the media and education-industrial complex (which could be a whole other discussion!) As a teacher of 30 years, I struggle to equip my kids with the critical thinking skills they need to be independent thinkers, and to motivate them to process information in such a way. However, it is human nature to take the path of least resistance, which is how we wind up with leaders who take advantage of our willingness to be blissfully ignorant.

But the sun is shining, the birds are singing, and Buffett is coming around again this summer! Breathe in, breathe out, and move on!

As much as I appreciate the complement I feel the need to question your choice of Buffett quotes . . . I think that "indecision may or may not be my problem" is more apt when dealing with the powers that be. Especially those who sell blindly inaccurate versions of history as a form of increasing National Pride in itself. Horse poopy, I say.

Now if you will excuse me I am going to go laugh so I won't go insane.

sistergoldenhair wrote:Last spring we took a trip to Shenandoah National Park in Virginia and drove Skyline Drive. I recommend it -- the views were breathtaking! It is also the path of Stonewall Jackson's army through the valley, so when you stop at the lookouts there are signs explaining what took place at each spot. Fascinating. On the way home we stopped at Gettysburg. Very moving. There's something about the place, like you can feel the presence of so many fine men and boys, on both sides, of course. Have also been to Arlington. Again, such a sadly beautiful place. My kids were very impressed by the changing of the guard. So solemn and dignified. I enjoyed seeing Lee's house. Have also been to Ford's Theatre and the house where Lincoln died. Seeing these places makes you realize how precious our country is and how easily it could all be lost, and how people made such terrible sacrifices to preserve it. So many people take things for granted now, and are so disrespectful. As a teacher I have a struggle every year just to get my kids to say the Pledge of Allegiance respectfully! But I train 'em up right, and at this point in the year they know what I expect and they do it with enthusiasm!

My son is currently walking the Appalachian Trail. In a few weeks he'll be walking through the Shenandoah Valley and then on to MD and PA, closely approximating the march of the Confederate Army to Gettysburg. You're right, you can just about feel all those soldiers at G'Burg.

Have any of you (I am assuming yes but going to ask anyway) read the Shelby Foote three volume account of the Civil War? Very fascinating read and great detail too.

drunkpirate66 wrote:I've been down that way many times. Like most, I was taught in school the very simplistic "Hollywood" happy ending version of the Civil War. Much like how Columbus "discovered" America (even though there were people already here and that the Chinese and Viking clans had already landed on what was to become America's shores hundreds of years prior) the way the Civil War is taught in schools and what the general public seem to think of it, in my opinion, is a candy coated pile of bull. People to this day actually believe that the primary reason for much of the North's acts was to free slaves. Abraham Lincoln's motivations for the war had little if nothing to do with slavery. The Emancipation Proclamation didn't affect in any way shape or form slave states being part of the Union. None. I am sure that many of the soldiers used slavery as their own tool of motivation (whether it was from a "Southern" perspective or whether it was "Northern" in perspective) but the fact is simple: Lincoln and many Government workers and analysts knew they needed the South and its resources to maintain the big Industrial companies and cities of the North . . . but not the other way around. Culmination: Gettysburg.

I agree. Most schools (be they northern or southern) teach a slanted view of the Civil War. You have to do some reading and studying for yourself to see a more balanced and accurate picture.

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:I've been down that way many times. Like most, I was taught in school the very simplistic "Hollywood" happy ending version of the Civil War. Much like how Columbus "discovered" America (even though there were people already here and that the Chinese and Viking clans had already landed on what was to become America's shores hundreds of years prior) the way the Civil War is taught in schools and what the general public seem to think of it, in my opinion, is a candy coated pile of bull. People to this day actually believe that the primary reason for much of the North's acts was to free slaves. Abraham Lincoln's motivations for the war had little if nothing to do with slavery. The Emancipation Proclamation didn't affect in any way shape or form slave states being part of the Union. None. I am sure that many of the soldiers used slavery as their own tool of motivation (whether it was from a "Southern" perspective or whether it was "Northern" in perspective) but the fact is simple: Lincoln and many Government workers and analysts knew they needed the South and its resources to maintain the big Industrial companies and cities of the North . . . but not the other way around. Culmination: Gettysburg.

I agree. Most schools (be they northern or southern) teach a slanted view of the Civil War. You have to do some reading and studying for yourself to see a more balanced and accurate picture.

Read a recent book by James MacPhearson argued the same thing.

aeroparrot wrote:Should have gone to Bull Run when I lived in DC.

I lived in Virginia for 15 years and only got interested in the CW after I moved back north. Oye, the missed opportunities!

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:I've made it to a number of major battlefields including Shiloh, Vicksburg, Antietam/Sharpsburg, Manassas/Bull Run, Seven Days battlefields, Fredericksburg, Chancellorsville, Petersburg, Appomattox, Franklin (TN) and others, but still have many to go.

Anyone planning to visit particular places during the the 150th anniversary?

Discuss?

I was never much of a history buff when I was in school, probably because I don't like doing things if I have to do them, but I've been to several Civil War battlefields. From the ones you listed, I've been to Gettysburg, Antietam/Sharpsburg, Manassas/Bull Run, Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville. There may be another one or two but it's been many years, I went to all of them back in my banking days so it was before I went to law school in 1991.

The next time I visit my sister and brother-in-law in Myrtle Beach I'd like to take a ride down to Charleston and take the boat ride out to Fort Sumter.

LIPH wrote:I was never much of a history buff when I was in school, probably because I don't like doing things if I have to do them, but I've been to several Civil War battlefields. From the ones you listed, I've been to Gettysburg, Antietam/Sharpsburg, Manassas/Bull Run, Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville. There may be another one or two but it's been many years, I went to all of them back in my banking days so it was before I went to law school in 1991.

I hated history in school, for the same reason and also for the fact of memorizing all the dates. Could never keep them straight. Even now, I prefer the human interest stories about the soldiers and their lives to a tactical analysis of the battles themselves.

The really cool thing about the visitors center at Gettysburg is that there is a theater where you look down at a miniture battlefield (like an indoor ampitheater). They use mini lights to indicate the movement of troops. The overview brings it all together when you tour the fields.

Would love to go and see a reenactment ( Hint Jen) ..if & when one is closer

gunthermoose wrote:Would love to go and see a reenactment ( Hint Jen) ..if & when one is closer

Ditto, can you imagine a phlocking at a re-enactment? I assume they allow spectators as, if you know me at all, you know I don't "DO" camping - much less Civil War era camping. But I'd love to see one. And Jen, I agree on the human side of history. That house in Gettysburg where the woman was killed by a stray bullet really put it all together for me, and I was just a kid at the time. I also agree with those who said you can "feel" the people there. Funny that so many say the same thing.

ScarletB wrote:

gunthermoose wrote:Would love to go and see a reenactment ( Hint Jen) ..if & when one is closer

Ditto, can you imagine a phlocking at a re-enactment? I assume they allow spectators as, if you know me at all, you know I don't "DO" camping - much less Civil War era camping. But I'd love to see one. And Jen, I agree on the human side of history. That house in Gettysburg where the woman was killed by a stray bullet really put it all together for me, and I was just a kid at the time. I also agree with those who said you can "feel" the people there. Funny that so many say the same thing.

It would be EPIC!!!

There's one in July at Fort Adams in Newport, RI. Relatively small, as these things go, but still fun to see. My group doesn't usually participate, since they're in upstate NY but I've gone to watch before.

SchoolGirlHeart wrote:

drunkpirate66 wrote:I've been down that way many times. Like most, I was taught in school the very simplistic "Hollywood" happy ending version of the Civil War. Much like how Columbus "discovered" America (even though there were people already here and that the Chinese and Viking clans had already landed on what was to become America's shores hundreds of years prior) the way the Civil War is taught in schools and what the general public seem to think of it, in my opinion, is a candy coated pile of bull. People to this day actually believe that the primary reason for much of the North's acts was to free slaves. Abraham Lincoln's motivations for the war had little if nothing to do with slavery. The Emancipation Proclamation didn't affect in any way shape or form slave states being part of the Union. None. I am sure that many of the soldiers used slavery as their own tool of motivation (whether it was from a "Southern" perspective or whether it was "Northern" in perspective) but the fact is simple: Lincoln and many Government workers and analysts knew they needed the South and its resources to maintain the big Industrial companies and cities of the North . . . but not the other way around. Culmination: Gettysburg.

I agree. Most schools (be they northern or southern) teach a slanted view of the Civil War. You have to do some reading and studying for yourself to see a more balanced and accurate picture.

Slanted and inaccurate view of history (specifically American History) in general. Either teach what really happened (yeah right!) or don't teach it at all. Private studies over the past 20 years from both American and foreign colleges and historical institutions place the number of "Native American" deaths directly related to American (and pre-American founders) actions somewhere between 10 - 114 million. It is the largest mass-murder of a class of people in the history the world (Holocaust close second). Then American leaders and business/farm owners bring in 500,000 slaves that had been forced into labor on what would become American soil by 1775. By 1860 there would be well over 4 million slaves in America most of whom were exposed to force rape and inbreeding. There were no slaves brought over in the 1800s because there were plenty to complete the labor deemed necessary including building the White House and other mansions for the rich and powerful. How crazy is this? Descendants of slaves were, as we all know, brutally beaten and segregated over a hundred years after Gettysburg. They built our country - farms, roads, Washington DC, etc.

I don't mean to sound anti-American because if you know me you know that I am very proud of where I live (I just don't always agree on how we got there or the hypocritical view most of the world when our country has been just as - if not more guilty). I served my country. I vote Republican or Libertarian (I am a small Government guy). But the fact remains that the Civil War and all the deaths that occurred in Gettysburg were not because of the evils of slave trade and slave labor. It was to ensure the survival of the North first and foremost. Even in the 1860's big business had the most influence. Abraham Lincoln knew it.